Tim Cook Says Diversity is the Future of Apple, Points to More Female-Driven Presence at WWDC

[ThunderSkunk]

Dear Tim,

Can we, please,

If, dear Tim,

For someone on such a cozy personal level with Tim Cook, and who is aparrently an esteemed member of his organization, it's strange that you've confused this forum for Mr Cooks personal email.

Everyone and their overvalued opinions on this matter can whine all you want; it's not going to derail the future.

 

[The Doctor11]

I say apple should focus on implementing programs at early ages to engage girls in the field. Then you will eventually see higher qualified numbers of women applying for positions in the tech field.

Why? Why does it matter whether or not women work in the field of tech? Let's take the fashion industry for example. Now I don't have any source or anything to back this up but we all agree that there are probably more women working in the fashion industry than men right? Do we feel the need to make more men interested in fashion? No because nobody gives a **** and it doesn't ****ing matter. Apple shouldn't care how their diversity reports look and they sure as hell shouldn't be releasing them. They also shouldn't care how diverse the people at the keynotes are. The tickets should be given as a lottery not diversity. It does not matter period.

 

[thelookingglass]

Skill is probably one of the most important qualities to look at when hiring, but it is not the only quality. The person must have the right balance of potential, aggressiveness, acumen, collaboration, etc. Skill alone will not get you much in a large company.

Having said that, diversity is also important so that you do not become insular in the thinking that could mean missing the next leap in technology. Microsoft suffered from that and is just now starting to recuperate.

I think the only problem has been when someone is hired purely based on the diversity issue.

Get people that have passion, skill, and can push the company in new directions. That comes from many faces, some male, some female, and certainly from multiple races and ethnic backgrounds.

I don't disagree with that, but skin deep diversity doesn't necessarily accomplish that goal. Insular thinking is a real threat, but non-insular thinking doesn't lead automatically from hiring people of different colors and genders. I'm not against diversity at all, but I think these efforts are an offshoot of our super politically correct society.

 

[Planey28]

You assume women want to be involved in tech in the same proportions as men. Your logic is flawed. Typical of a hipster.

You assume you know what fields women want to be involved in. The issue here is more complex than you're thinking.

 

[DaveTheRave]

The actual hiring decision should be based on skills, but the diversity part will help Apple cast a wider net for their candidate pool which is a good thing. There may be some talent that for whatever reason isn't making their way into Apple's recruiting process. Maybe a lack of information on both sides about how the opportunities or how the process works. I'm against quotas but in favor of finding the best, wherever they are.

 

[darcyf]

The most privileged sex and race will tend to be the most "skilled" because they have more and better opportunities to better themselves. So that's a problem that needs to be addressed.

And there are still biases that come into play when people hire other people -- we tend to favour people similar to ourselves, our backgrounds, etc. If you have all white men at the top, it makes it very difficult for anything other than that to break through.

People who complain about the effort to diversify the workplace simply don't understand that the playing field is not level -- not by a long shot. So something needs to be done, because diversity is great for everything, whether it's coming up with new ideas to improve a product or better ways to keep a team productive.

If you stick to this idea that "the most skilled should be hired" and white men are the ones that keep getting hired -- how do you not see that there's something broken in the system? Because surely you don't think white men are just naturally superior. I mean, I would hope you don't. In which case, something clearly needs to be done.

So stop complaining and try contributing to the effort. We will all benefit as a result.

 

[Zippoe]

U couldnt be more wrong, men and women are attracted to each other and that would be distraction if they are working together also not everything is for everyone. Generally men are better in business, they are more organized, deal with stress much better while women are more emotional and better in working with kids, in fashion. So dont put people on positions they are not supposed to be!

 

[atheist.]

What utter tripe from Cook.

Diversity is neither good or bad. The complete works of J.S.Bach were written by one white man. In Cook's world, he would have preferred them to have been written by a committee consisting of one ginger, one black transvestite, one deaf atheist and one homosexual drug-addict.

Hire on skill alone. Nothing else matters.

What's wrong with a ginger, a black transvestite, a deaf atheist or a homosexual drug addict being given a job if they can get it done better than anyone else? Having red hair, or darker skin never has no impact on one's skill and deafness and drug addiction can be overcome. Your prejudice is the reason companies have carefully scrutinize their hiring practices to make sure implicit bias does not discount people based on their skin color, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion, mental disability.

 

[the8thark]

I hope not. The best people for the job should get the job. End of story. Not sub par people just to fill some sexist diversity quota.

 

[tkermit]

If you stick to this idea that "the most skilled should be hired" and white men are the ones that keep getting hired -- how do you not see that there's something broken in the system?

If the majority of students going into computer science is male, why would you not expect to see that reflected on the job market?

 

[DaveTheRave]

Why? Why does it matter whether or not women work in the field of tech? Let's take the fashion industry for example. Now I don't have any source or anything to back this up but we all agree that there are probably more women working in the fashion industry than men right? Do we feel the need to make more men interested in fashion? No because nobody gives a **** and it doesn't ****ing matter. Apple shouldn't care how their diversity reports look and they sure as hell shouldn't be releasing them. They also shouldn't care how diverse the people at the keynotes are. The tickets should be given as a lottery not diversity. It does not matter period.

It's not about quotas, it's about proactively searching for the best talent wherever it is. It's possible there could be some bias in the recruiters that women/blacks/whoever don't do tech. I'm sure that at some point someone said we don't need blacks in baseball- we already have lots of good white talent!

 

[The Doctor11]

What's wrong with a ginger, a black transvestite, a deaf atheist or a homosexual drug addict being given a job if they can get it done better than anyone else? Having red hair, or darker skin never has no impact on one's skill and deafness and drug addiction can be overcome. Your prejudice is the reason companies have carefully scrutinize their hiring practices to make sure implicit bias does not discount people based on their skin color, race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, gender identity, religion, mental disability.

It's not that there is anything wrong with one of the people you listed being hired, it's that Apple is hiring people for the wrong reasons.

 

[The Doctor11]

If the majority of students going into computer science is male, why would you not expect to see that reflected on the job market?

Exactly!!!! I couldn't agree more.

 

[iZac]

Apple announces a woman will present a segment of the Keynote.

Internet goes wild for something that should be inconsequential.

Some will applaud forced 'diversity' in the tech industry.

Others will scrutinize her presentation skills obsessively.

The rest will just discuss if she’s hot or not.

 

[atheist.]

So you say that people should be hired on merit, and then in the rest of your post you say that they shouldn't

No he's pointing out that even with the right intentions of hiring only, bias is often learned accidentally. Racism still exists even after decades after the Civil Rights Act. Only merit should be a reason anyone should be hired but if an employer hires people from the same socioeconomic, religious etc. group disproportionately compared to the general population, then they are usually doing something wrong.

For example, when European Americans were less likely to support race blind admissions for UCLA when informed Asian Americans would then make up a large proportion of the accepted. I am not trying to demonize any group. Bias should be dealt with by informing people that is still exists not by throwing out the word racist. Even the best of us make mistakes.

 

[SpiderDude]

Not really. The age of the "Old boys club" was a real thing and there are a number of companies that are/were like that.

Well, if that's such a bad thing, those companies ought to be going bankrupt by now.
I mean, let companies battle each other on their own terms.
The ones with the best form of organization will strive whereas others will fail.

Because if the law makes companies do something they can always come back complaining that their failure was a result of the government's imposition.

Also, there are places and companies that go under the "women only" moto. I never heard a complaint there.

Just saying.

 

[darcyf]

If the majority of students going into computer science is male, why would you not expect to see that reflected on the job market?

And if the job market is predominantly male, then wouldn't you expect to see that reflected in the enrolment numbers? It goes both ways. But if you change the way the job market works -- away from skewing heavily towards male and bringing more women into the mix -- you can have an impact on how enrolment goes, encouraging more women to do so.

Unless we've all forgotten, women weren't allowed to do much of anything about a century ago. It takes more than just time to rectify the fallout from that sort of oppression. Efforts have to be made.

 

[keysofanxiety]

i've never understood how diversity leads to 'better' products or is conducive for better productivity. why not just award people best suited for the job completely independent of their racial or sexual background?

Agreed. If somebody gets the job over somebody more capable just because they're a different gender, race or religion, that to me is the polar opposite of equal rights. Such outcomes are a form of discrimination, albeit not against the minority.

Nonetheless I'm sure Apple are mindful of this and will always pick the best person for the job.

 

[darcyf]

Well, if that's such a bad thing, those companies ought to be going bankrupt by now.
I mean, let companies battle each other on their own terms.
The ones with the best form of organization will strive whereas others will fail.

Because if the law makes companies do something they can always come back complaining that their failure was a result of the government's imposition.

Also, there are places and companies that go under the "women only" moto. I never heard a complaint there.

Just saying.

You're confusing "things are going well" with "things could be a lot better".

Just saying.

 

[Altis]

The most privileged sex and race will tend to be the most "skilled" because they have more and better opportunities to better themselves. So that's a problem that needs to be addressed.

And there are still biases that come into play when people hire other people -- we tend to favour people similar to ourselves, our backgrounds, etc. If you have all white men at the top, it makes it very difficult for anything other than that to break through.

People who complain about the effort to diversify the workplace simply don't understand that the playing field is not level -- not by a long shot. So something needs to be done, because diversity is great for everything, whether it's coming up with new ideas to improve a product or better ways to keep a team productive.

If you stick to this idea that "the most skilled should be hired" and white men are the ones that keep getting hired -- how do you not see that there's something broken in the system? Because surely you don't think white men are just naturally superior. I mean, I would hope you don't. In which case, something clearly needs to be done.

So stop complaining and try contributing to the effort. We will all benefit as a result.

Your model of privilege is so broken. Seeing as women outnumber men at post-secondary education at rates nearly 2:1 at all levels with the exception of computer science and a few other STEM streams, and there's still a huge amount of scholarships and pushes to make it super attractive to women to enter those streams.

So they have every opportunity to pursue it, yet many don't. Pretty well everyone is in favor of equal opportunity, but pushing for equality of outcome is quite different. And let's not forget we're forever being told that benevolent sexism is just as bad as blatant sexism.

You also overlook that the overwhelming majority of HR and hiring managers are women, even at tech companies. It isn't white males doing all the hiring.

I'm curious if you push for this diversity and inclusion in fields like mining, roofing, infrastructure (sewage, waste, roadworks, etc) or if diversity seems to only be important in the safe, comfortable, well paid jobs with regular hours.

Another thing not to overlook is how the people who pioneered the entire computer revolution, both men and women, were treated over the decades (social outcasts who were among the most bullied). It's only recently that the tech sector is seen as desirable.

Go on YouTube and check The Computer Chronicles episode where they talk about trying to get more women and girls in computing, and this was from the mid 80s (IIRC).

 

[Edgar Spayce]

Is there anything real remaining in any market?

So now even Hiring isn't based on skills, talent or experience anymore, but how good it looks from a politically correct marketing stance?

There are WAY less women interested, educated and then trained in technology than there are men. This is the fact. Now liberal propaganda is twisting this fact to force more women in positions JUST because they are women leaving other people who might be more skilled, trained or talented because they're not women?

This is what liberal propaganda is about: creating a forced and more pervasive discrimination while pretending it's against discrimination.

As usual (for the past 5000 years including last century) it won't end well...

 

[BlackSmoke]

If a hiring manager says, "We have 100 employees. All are male, and either White or Asian. I need to hire some black women to balance this out", then that wrong. That's not diversity. If the manager says, "We've only hired White or Asian men. In this next round, let's expand our search to a larger talent pool that includes people of different races and sexes" that's diversity. It's not guaranteeing a job to a person because of their sex or race. It's including them in opportunity where in the past they weren't eve up for consideration. It's hiring the best person for the job regardless of their race or sex. That hasn't always been the case.

Yeah but in this case, Apple deliberately leaves out only white males from even being able to apply for the scholarship. That's stupid. I'm a student just like these other students and WWDC is pretty expensive. It's unfair that I can't have the same opportunity to get a chance at getting help to make my apps better. I don't think it's right to leave out one specific racial group from applying when you allow everybody else to apply.

 

[RichTF]

If the majority of students going into computer science is male, why would you not expect to see that reflected on the job market?

Yep, now keep going along that line of thought…

Why are there more men going into computer science? I'd argue it's because women are deterred from the field by a combination of society pressures.

How can you convince them otherwise? How about showing them from an early age that women can, in fact, achieve success in those fields. That'd be one way to help.

And how can you do that? Well, it's hard, but doing something like having more female speakers leading the biggest developer day of the biggest (and most publicised) tech company in the world…? Yeah, that'll definitely help.

So thanks Apple, nice start!

(And yeah, OF COURSE this works both ways. I for one would be delighted to see more men get past the idea that certain professions are "not manly". Hopefully, there are leading figures in the fashion worlds etc. that are as forward-thinking as Apple!)

 

[darcyf]

I hope not. The best people for the job should get the job. End of story. Not sub par people just to fill some sexist diversity quota.

This line of thinking assumes there's some sort of incredible gulf between the first and second choice for a job. Like if you end up choosing a woman over a man even though the man may have been more skilled in some measurable way, that the woman by comparison is some sort of idiot who doesn't know how to tie her shoes and now the company is doomed.

It also ignores the fact that we are not the most accurate judges of what constitutes "best" or "most skilled" in people because we have biases that interfered with our judgements. So maybe the women or hispanics or whomever being turned down for jobs are more skilled, but the white males doing the hiring can't see it because their biases lean them towards other white males.

Either way, the argument of "just hire the best and stop trying to diversify" is flawed.

 

[tkermit]

Yep, now keep going along that line of thought…

Why are there more men going into computer science? I'd argue it's because women are deterred from the field by a combination of society pressures.

How can you convince them otherwise? How about showing them from an early age that women can, in fact, achieve success in those fields. That'd be one way to help.

And how can you do that? Well, it's hard, but doing something like having more female speakers leading the biggest developer day of the biggest (and most publicised) tech company in the world…? Yeah, that'll definitely help.

Hey, I'm all for that. For all I care, promote the heck out of women in tech. Just don't expect the proportion of women to men being hired in certain tech-related fields today to be anywhere close to that in the general population, when there's only so many women going into those fields at this point.