Time for a "New Apple"?

knewsom

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 9, 2005
949
0
Throughout my life, I've slowly grown aware of the simple truth that "bigger is not better". Apple was once the scrappy underdog competition sicking it to the man that was Microsoft, and created truly innovative, and excellent products. They still do create good products, for the most part. ...but they've lost something. Their design is as beautiful as ever, the specs are as average as ever, and the software... well, it's good, but not as good as it used to be, by comparison to their competition. What's missing is that scrappiness. When people think of major Tech firms, it used to be Intel, IBM, Microsoft... Now, it's MS, Google, and Apple... has gotten too big.

They've forgotten what made them great in the first place. They as a company has stopped thinking different, has started thinking about MAJORITY, and total market value and exposure. It's numbers now, not passion, and it shows, in their customers support, in their abysmally slow progression of software development (especially where it's really important - the Pro software and the OS), and sadly, in their Quality Control. Being the best they can be has taken a back seat to making the most money they can make, and sure, what else do stockholders of major multinational corporations expect besides dividends and stock splits?

The trouble is, CUSTOMERS want, and DESERVE more. I've come to the sad conclusion that there are no companies that can actually provide me with what I really WANT. Sure, there are companies that meet my needs, and Apple tends to do it best - but they always leave me wanting something better, and it's not to be found in their next product lineup.

I suppose it was inevitable that Apple would become that which they were created to destroy - it's the sort of thing that happens all the time. Look at the Sundance Film Festival... Slamdance... The Weinstein Company... Pixar... Heck, even the USA.

So perhaps it's time for a new underdog, a new scrappy competitor, someone to stick it to the Man that Apple has become. Maybe an unknown startup will rise up soon, selling awesome computers running a new distribution of Linux... packaging well-developed apps of their own, and revolutionary software that'll allow users to run programs for nearly any OS... Or maybe something altogether new, something we've never seen before.

Maybe it's time for a New Apple.
 

Jon-Luke

macrumors 6502
May 22, 2009
278
0
Cape Town
INTERESTING...

Back when the first iPods came out Sony was still the biggest thing in Portable music with the Walkman and the Diskman - many of the kids today don't even know what these little gadgets were.

So maybe if there is going to be a new "Apple" then there has to be a technology jump that prompts it... The GPS people could have done better with the in car navigation scene - now it looks like the iPhone may make GPS devices unnecessary. But who knows what the next "THING" will be - In my opinion it will be a way of having your media with you wherever you go regardless of the hardware you use to experience your media that will be the next big thing... but who knows ;)
 

xIGmanIx

macrumors 6502a
Dec 21, 2008
839
0
i don't know anyone who would say the iphone is a true GPS replacement at this point, possibly? yes, but there are other applications that would require a dedicated GPS instead of a phone.

INTERESTING...

Back when the first iPods came out Sony was still the biggest thing in Portable music with the Walkman and the Diskman - many of the kids today don't even know what these little gadgets were.

So maybe if there is going to be a new "Apple" then there has to be a technology jump that prompts it... The GPS people could have done better with the in car navigation scene - now it looks like the iPhone may make GPS devices unnecessary. But who knows what the next "THING" will be - In my opinion it will be a way of having your media with you wherever you go regardless of the hardware you use to experience your media that will be the next big thing... but who knows ;)
 

mkrishnan

Moderator emeritus
Jan 9, 2004
29,641
12
Grand Rapids, MI, USA
This is going to be one of those threads that ultimately becomes an argument that Ubuntu is a perfect choice for a desktop OS as it is, today, and that consumers are just blind in failing to realize it, or some equally ridiculous attempt at failed populism, isn't it? :p
 

dejo

Moderator
Staff member
Sep 2, 2004
15,725
447
The Centennial State
...and sure, what else do stockholders of major multinational corporations expect besides dividends and stock splits?
When was the last time Apple split their stock, let alone paid a dividend? Neither of these are Apple goals any more.

Maybe it's time for a New Apple.
Sounds good. Maybe this is something you could pursue yourself. That is, you start the New Apple.
 

*LTD*

macrumors G4
Feb 5, 2009
10,703
1
Canada
Apple wasn't created to destroy big companies. Apple was created to destroy companies that didn't innovate, held fast to old paradigms, and which were uninspiring in terms of their products. Apple's marketing spin on this idea at the time was to represent these companies as big, faceless, menacing corporations.

Apple is still innovating, still creating desirable products - now more than ever, and they have, as a matter of course, grown. They still are the "scrappy" company you hope for, but they also have to be successful, and they have to grow in order support more innovation and the infrastructure to produce it. More people want Apple products today than ever before. Apple is a *choice*, still are, always have been. It's just that more people are making it.

Don't let Apple's size fool you. They're leaner, meaner, and faster than the competition, just with a lot more money than most. Yesteryear's IBM is today's Microsoft. You can repeat that 1984 commercial with Steve Ballmer's face on that large screen and not miss a beat.
 

knewsom

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 9, 2005
949
0
INTERESTING...

Back when the first iPods came out Sony was still the biggest thing in Portable music with the Walkman and the Diskman - many of the kids today don't even know what these little gadgets were.

So maybe if there is going to be a new "Apple" then there has to be a technology jump that prompts it... The GPS people could have done better with the in car navigation scene - now it looks like the iPhone may make GPS devices unnecessary. But who knows what the next "THING" will be - In my opinion it will be a way of having your media with you wherever you go regardless of the hardware you use to experience your media that will be the next big thing... but who knows ;)
I'm not sure a "next big thing" is what it's going to take... Apple basically got started just making a good computer for regular people. User friendly and functional, and with some personality. The iPod is what made them huge, but consider that being bigger hasn't necessarily made them better.

In some ways, LTD, sure, Apple is better than ever. But in others, they have lost something... and I think that a lot of customers have been feeling that. When it comes to computers, and even some other things, Apple just doesn't give people what they want. The argument is of course, that people don't KNOW what they want, and that's possible, but I think some real competition in terms of computing will really do them some good.

Is the "new Apple" Google? I dunno. They've been making some amazing products lately and I expect to see more good things from them in the future. I'm not so sure they're what I'm talking about though. As for me? I'm not sure I'm the man for the job either... but we'll see. A daunting task surely, for whoever attempts it.
 

MTI

macrumors 65816
Feb 17, 2009
1,106
6
Scottsdale, AZ
My view of Apple's direction has always been: How can we deliver technology to a broader audience?

Their response over the years is to use design and technology to remove the barrier to using technology. They used graphics, color and true "plug & play" technology to make computers accessible to people that didn't want to learn CP/M or PC-DOS. You didn't have to be a DB programmer to use Hypercard or a Netware Certified Engineer to setup an AppleTalk network.

Today, the same design and interface DNA exists on Mac, iPod and iPhone.

There's an old saying from tennis: "Never change a winning game; always change a losing one."
 

Wild-Bill

macrumors 68030
Jan 10, 2007
2,538
604
bleep
Quality Control 101

IMHO Apple need to do a better job at scaling their quality control effort to complement their growth rate. The latest debacle with the new iMacs is just another indication that their QC is slipping.
 

knewsom

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 9, 2005
949
0
IMHO Apple need to do a better job at scaling their quality control effort to complement their growth rate. The latest debacle with the new iMacs is just another indication that their QC is slipping.
Yes - but this is a symptom, not the problem.

Do I want Apple to stop growing? I wouldn't say that, I guess I want Apple to get back to basics and make their OS and software the very best it can be. I think it's been slipping lately, and I suspect its because they've spread themselves out into a wide variety of products, many of which are more profitable than their OS.

Is Apple making the best products ever? Well yes, compared to what they made before. ...but compared to the rest of the industry, no.
 

LethalWolfe

macrumors G3
Jan 11, 2002
9,366
119
Los Angeles
Don't let Apple's size fool you. They're leaner, meaner, and faster than the competition, just with a lot more money than most. Yesteryear's IBM is today's Microsoft. You can repeat that 1984 commercial with Steve Ballmer's face on that large screen and not miss a beat.
And today's MS could very well be Apple tomorrow. Probably not in the OS market but in terms of professional software and i-gadgets. A vertically integrated walled garden is a double edged sword. If you can keep everyone locked in it's a gift that keeps on giving, but all it takes is one hole in the wall to lose everyone since your products don't play nice in the outside world.

Apple's gains in market share and popularity has meant a renewed interest from third party developers which is great for end users and that also means Apple has to step it up when it comes to their first party software. Just taking a snapshot of the past 2-3 years and Apple's Pro Apps are moving at glacial speed compared to the competition (Adobe, Avid, The Foundry, etc.). In the early part of the decade Apple, especially w/FCP, was really pushing the fight but they seemed to get complacent and are sliding backwards.


Lethal
 

Forsaken

macrumors regular
Dec 1, 2009
214
0
I can agree with you on some of your points, but you're trying way too hard to make this seem like a manifesto or some crap like that.

I just want Woz back.

100th post? Hmmm.
 

macplaymates

macrumors newbie
Mar 25, 2008
3
0
Completely Agree

Throughout my life, I've slowly grown aware of the simple truth that "bigger is not better". Apple was once the scrappy underdog competition sicking it to the man that was Microsoft, and created truly innovative, and excellent products. They still do create good products, for the most part. ...but they've lost something. Their design is as beautiful as ever, the specs are as average as ever, and the software... well, it's good, but not as good as it used to be, by comparison to their competition. What's missing is that scrappiness. When people think of major Tech firms, it used to be Intel, IBM, Microsoft... Now, it's MS, Google, and Apple... has gotten too big.

They've forgotten what made them great in the first place. They as a company has stopped thinking different, has started thinking about MAJORITY, and total market value and exposure. It's numbers now, not passion, and it shows, in their customers support, in their abysmally slow progression of software development (especially where it's really important - the Pro software and the OS), and sadly, in their Quality Control. Being the best they can be has taken a back seat to making the most money they can make, and sure, what else do stockholders of major multinational corporations expect besides dividends and stock splits?
I have been a long time mac fan since 1986 when a 512K fat mac was so far and beyond different from anything out in the pc world. I think Apple has lost the focus on really focusing on the operating system and innovating in this space. The recent PC attack ads and media spin/bravado smells of insecurity of a company that really doesn't need to. Apple in it's quite way can focus on making the best thoughtful products that users want and they wouldn't need to worry about share prices and market share and competition, the consumer will just naturally gravitate to their products through word of mouth.
 

edever

macrumors member
Jan 17, 2009
42
0
Midwest USA
It's Round, Like a Circle!

Apple was once the scrappy underdog competition sicking it to the man that was Microsoft, and created truly innovative, and excellent products.
...

Microsoft was once the scrappy underdog competition sicking it to the man that was IBM, and created truly innovative, and excellent products.
 

knewsom

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 9, 2005
949
0
I can agree with you on some of your points, but you're trying way too hard to make this seem like a manifesto or some crap like that.

I just want Woz back.

100th post? Hmmm.
Manifesto? It was just a clear statement of my thoughts and opinion, which essentially just led me to a question. I'm not sure what your criticism is stemming from, exactly. Do you just not like my writing style? Or is it the conclusion I've drawn that you take issue with?

Microsoft was once the scrappy underdog competition sicking it to the man that was IBM, and created truly innovative, and excellent products.
Yep. It's a pretty standard paradigm, sadly. If only one could find a way to preserve youth eternally, in any sense of the word.
 

DoNoHarm

macrumors 65816
Oct 8, 2008
1,120
12
Maine
Throughout my life, I've slowly grown aware of the simple truth that "bigger is not better". Apple was once the scrappy underdog competition sicking it to the man that was Microsoft, and created truly innovative, and excellent products. They still do create good products, for the most part. ...but they've lost something. Their design is as beautiful as ever, the specs are as average as ever, and the software... well, it's good, but not as good as it used to be, by comparison to their competition. What's missing is that scrappiness. When people think of major Tech firms, it used to be Intel, IBM, Microsoft... Now, it's MS, Google, and Apple... has gotten too big.

They've forgotten what made them great in the first place. They as a company has stopped thinking different, has started thinking about MAJORITY, and total market value and exposure. It's numbers now, not passion, and it shows, in their customers support, in their abysmally slow progression of software development (especially where it's really important - the Pro software and the OS), and sadly, in their Quality Control. Being the best they can be has taken a back seat to making the most money they can make, and sure, what else do stockholders of major multinational corporations expect besides dividends and stock splits?

The trouble is, CUSTOMERS want, and DESERVE more. I've come to the sad conclusion that there are no companies that can actually provide me with what I really WANT. Sure, there are companies that meet my needs, and Apple tends to do it best - but they always leave me wanting something better, and it's not to be found in their next product lineup.

I suppose it was inevitable that Apple would become that which they were created to destroy - it's the sort of thing that happens all the time. Look at the Sundance Film Festival... Slamdance... The Weinstein Company... Pixar... Heck, even the USA.

So perhaps it's time for a new underdog, a new scrappy competitor, someone to stick it to the Man that Apple has become. Maybe an unknown startup will rise up soon, selling awesome computers running a new distribution of Linux... packaging well-developed apps of their own, and revolutionary software that'll allow users to run programs for nearly any OS... Or maybe something altogether new, something we've never seen before.

Maybe it's time for a New Apple.
i must (respectfully!) completely disagree. Yes, apple has grown to become this gigantic company and yes, it's product offerings have changed but so has the world. We live in a different time with a different market landscape, so it's reasonable to expect that the ways in which apple is a market leader will change. I was at Chipotle the other day and they had an advertised iphone app that lets you order your chipotle on your way to the store. How crazy is that! There was no android app, no Windows mobile app - only apple. you mentioned how awesome their hardware was - I would go a step further. even if you were to compare the early 2008 MBP Classic with other laptops, the MBP Classic is a better looking machine. The rest of the industry still hasn't caught up and Apple still innovates into unibodies, iphones, and soon to be tablets. What more could you ask of a company?
 

jellybean

macrumors regular
Jun 27, 2006
222
13
When I bought my first Mac about 8 years ago there was absolutely nothing out there on the Windows/PC side which came close to the Mac in terms of hardware design and operating system. But nowadays I don't think it's so clear cut. There are some really nicely designed "PC" laptops and desktops and I feel that with Windows 7 Microsoft have caught up with OS X. (iLife aside!) The Apple of today strike me as a company who are blinded by their own arrogance and too scared to think different out of fear of looking uncool. I really hope Apple come out with a new Mac product which can leapfrog the competition and widen the gap again, but I get the feeling that all we're going to see on the Mac side for the foreseeable future is just minor refinements. Please prove me wrong, Apple! :)
 

Goona

macrumors 68020
Mar 11, 2009
2,268
0
When I bought my first Mac about 8 years ago there was absolutely nothing out there on the Windows/PC side which came close to the Mac in terms of hardware design and operating system. But nowadays I don't think it's so clear cut. There are some really nicely designed "PC" laptops and desktops and I feel that with Windows 7 Microsoft have caught up with OS X. (iLife aside!) The Apple of today strike me as a company who are blinded by their own arrogance and too scared to think different out of fear of looking uncool. I really hope Apple come out with a new Mac product which can leapfrog the competition and widen the gap again, but I get the feeling that all we're going to see on the Mac side for the foreseeable future is just minor refinements. Please prove me wrong, Apple! :)
Seeing how crap the Mac operating system was 8 years ago, how did you come to that conclusion. Apple is a company like any other, they make products, they aren't perfect and they never claimed they were. To me and many others they make better products than their competition, which is why we keep buying. The minute they stop making great products, we look for alternatives. There's a reason Apple has the highest satisfaction rates in the industry, compared to the alternatives, Apple is better.
 

jellybean

macrumors regular
Jun 27, 2006
222
13
Seeing how crap the Mac operating system was 8 years ago, how did you come to that conclusion.
Sorry, my bad... 6 years ago. It was an iMac G4 running Jaguar (10.2?) which felt like a breath of fresh air compared to what else was available at the time.
 

jellybean

macrumors regular
Jun 27, 2006
222
13
...having said all that, when I consider some of the reasons why I'm about to splash out over £1000 on a new Mac - multi-touch trackpad, Time Machine, little nicities like the magsafe cord, iLife, tight integration with iPhone - they clearly are still innovating but perhaps in more subtle ways. If every other release of OS X had a radically different UI it would be a headache.
Wow, I swear half the time it feels as though there's a Windows fanboy and Mac fanboy fighting inside me!
 

knewsom

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jun 9, 2005
949
0
...having said all that, when I consider some of the reasons why I'm about to splash out over £1000 on a new Mac - multi-touch trackpad, Time Machine, little nicities like the magsafe cord, iLife, tight integration with iPhone - they clearly are still innovating but perhaps in more subtle ways. If every other release of OS X had a radically different UI it would be a headache.
Wow, I swear half the time it feels as though there's a Windows fanboy and Mac fanboy fighting inside me!
All of those things could be better with only a little bit of effort, with the possible exception of the magsafe cord. And they could be less expensive too - Apple's profit margins are insane.