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Just lower the price of the e series. Idk what they can realistically lower it to but seems like the best course of action if they wanted a true budget phone.
I don't think they'd ever need to. Outside of corporate sales, the e series is very much aimed at phone network carriers to be the iPhone model they can offer as the "zero money upfront" option on a 24 month carrier deal. So Apple has no real incentive to drop the sticker-price, as lots of users will get it through the carrier and not worry about the sticker-price. The reduction in price, spread out over the 24 months and added to the monthly carrier charge, becomes too low to be significant as a dealmaker / dealbreaker.
 
This sort of gray market is common and legal in the USA. Costco is well known to to it. Some companies like Omega sued Costco and lost. Sometimes the tricky part is warrantee, but at least in the case of Costco, they have a money back policy.
Yep, in Europe this isn't really a factor either. If you are still within the 2 years of EU warranty, or if you have AppleCare, any Apple repair centre / Apple Authorized repair centre will treat the device the same way, irrespective of from whom it was out ( as long as the serial is valid and not registered as stolen, obviously).

It happens a lot between UK and Eurozone countries a lot as well, and in both directions, depending on the fluctuation between Sterling and Euro.
 
Apple doesn’t make budget iPhones, simple as that. Even the “e” lineup outperforms the vast majority of Android phones on the market.

Apple did make the semi-budget SE series, and they were and are perfect for me. I'm sorry to say that I don't think they sold that well. The SE had everything it needed, but, omitted the nicer camera options, and, it seems that to most people I know, the high-end cameras were what they really wanted. I think that if they sold well, Apple would have continued that product line. I'm hoping that it comes back before I need to replace my SE3. Back in the day, a surprising number of people carried SLRs around for travel. Most people seem to find high-end cell phone cameras sufficient, and a whole lot easier to carry.
 
Apple did make the semi-budget SE series, and they were and are perfect for me. I'm sorry to say that I don't think they sold that well. The SE had everything it needed, but, omitted the nicer camera options, and, it seems that to most people I know, the high-end cameras were what they really wanted. I think that if they sold well, Apple would have continued that product line. I'm hoping that it comes back before I need to replace my SE3. Back in the day, a surprising number of people carried SLRs around for travel. Most people seem to find high-end cell phone cameras sufficient, and a whole lot easier to carry.

I love the older form factor - my perfect phone would be a iPhone6 - SE3 sized body with a full edge to edge screen.

I think a reason the SEs were less popular than they should have been was that tApple delibrately used the older form factor - with the e series, they've stopped that, and from a distance there's no instant distinction between an e and a normal iPhone. - for that you'd need to look at the screen or look at the camera(s).

I think that's a very deliberate change on Apple's part - social perception. Too many people don't want the "poor person's" form factor. I don't agree with the sentiment, but I think it did contribute to poorer sales.
 
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As I said, Geekbench. Most users wouldn't be able to tell the two chips apart because for day-to-day tasks or doomscrolling smartphones have had plenty fast chips for many years now.

Google states newer Pixel devices will receive 7 years of software updates. Apple usually supports devices with feature updates for around 7 years, but they never promise anything in advance. So I'd say they're about even in that department.

Saying that the usable lifespan will be significantly lower is pure speculation. I could speculate it'll be longer because it'll run the latest software in 7 years, and after that Android apps usually support older Android versions for quite a while because of the fragmented ecosystem, so whatever OS the 10a ends up on will probably run popular smartphone apps for even longer than the 17e.

In contrast, even devices as recent as the iPhone 15 miss quite a few features from current and likely future software updates, as Apple set the minimum spec for Apple Intelligence to 8 GB of RAM.

But I get the bias considering the forum we're on.
Like I said, the 17e is significantly more powerful than the Pixel 9 Pro or 10e.

There is simply no comparison. It matters because it’ll have a large QoL impact in relation to long term use.

There is simply no compelling reason to choose a Pixel over an entry-level iPhone unless system level AI integration is a requirement (and I would personally pay to avoid AI slop).
 
I love the older form factor
I love my SE3's form factor, but, quite apparently, most iPhone users prefer larger sizes. Or, at least, current purchasers. (They could issue another SE series after the current SE3's have aged out.) I've just had to concede that my preferred choice is not that popular.
 
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I love my SE3's form factor, but, quite apparently, most iPhone users prefer larger sizes. Or, at least, current purchasers. (They could issue another SE series after the current SE3's have aged out.) I've just had to concede that my preferred choice is not that popular.

Current purchasers also have no choice or way to signal any preference for anything other than what's for sale.

There hasn't been a new Mini in 5 years, as one example.
 
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I love my SE3's form factor, but, quite apparently, most iPhone users prefer larger sizes. Or, at least, current purchasers. (They could issue another SE series after the current SE3's have aged out.) I've just had to concede that my preferred choice is not that popular.

I feel the same. I find the current "standard" iPhone size slightly too big, but people like big.
 
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I love my SE3's form factor, but, quite apparently, most iPhone users prefer larger sizes. Or, at least, current purchasers. (They could issue another SE series after the current SE3's have aged out.) I've just had to concede that my preferred choice is not that popular.
I think you're partially right.

When the SE2 and SE3 were being sold, the 12 mini and 13 mini were also available. I think there were too many small options in a short amount of time and none of them sold as well as the bigger (premium) options. I think if they put the E series components in a mini shell and made that the only small/cheaper option each year it would actually sell better than the E series does now.

But what do I know?
 
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When the SE2 and SE3 were being sold, the 12 mini and 13 mini were also available. I think there were too many small options in a short amount of time and none of them sold as well as the bigger (premium) options.

Also, and maybe it's not a huge deal, both the 12 Mini and 13 Mini were squarely in the middle of the pandemic, when folks couldn't (or couldn't casually and easily) go try them out in stores to understand the form factor benefits and trade offs.
 
I think this is an intriguing idea. I don't think Apple would do it because carriers subsidize the costs of the phones. Yea the iPhone 17 pro is $1000+, but I only pay like $30 a month for it. The people that are likely to buy a phone outright likely aren't worried about the price.
 
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There is no reason for them to make a cheaper phone. It would just compete with older iphone models. The used phone market is huge. The used laptop market isn't.
Isn’t it actually the other way around? That it would make sense to produce a more affordable model, since people would buy that instead of used iPhones? Apple doesn’t earn anything from the second-hand iPhone market.
 
The thing is I don’t think there are chips lying around for it. They already did this with SE/E. Older chips they don’t make anymore and it wouldn’t really make sense cost wise to revive them. Maybe they could make it with plastic chassis like what 5C was, but this would mean additional R&D and still apparent overlap with SE complicating their range.

With MacBook it made sense because they were able to literally take the hardware from their phone current production with small changes. Which then also allowed for smaller battery further cutting the price. However they can’t really take hw from smth like an Apple watch and stick this in an iPhone lol
They can just recycle parts already meant for their phones but then once again… would simply arrive at a different variant SE(17e), which isn’t super meaningful or significant to actually pursue.
 
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The cheapest iPhone (17e) is the same price as the MacBook Neo! (In the UK: both £599.) If Apple can make a laptop for that price, then surely a basic phone should be a fraction of that?

a small fraction? No.

I don't think the iPhone is at the same 'stuck growth' phase as the Mac. If iPhone sales start to drop or compeititon gets alot better at a lower price ( Incrementally that has been happening, but this RAM/NAND crisis is likely going to put revere that. The really cheap phones may more radically disappear. Motorola just raised prices on their entry level stuff. )



There's clearly a market for a cheaper iPhone.

Yes. But ... First, there are still set of folks to dump their iPhones every year. It is not most users, but it is high enough that the used market for iPhones is substantively big. Apple supports iPhones for 5+ years so 2 year phone is still very viable. Even more so if willing to sit on it past when security updates stop coming. Yes, there are folks who more so want a 'new'/warranty covered less expensive phone , but if enough of these other folks 'exit' the market for used/'hand me down'/etc. phones there are fewer folks for Apple to sell to.

The iPHone SE strategy was technically selling older model phones as 'new'. The iPhone sold as iPhone latest in year 1, as the iPhone latest-1 the next year, as the iPhone lastest -2 the year after that and then periodically would fall into the iPhone SE category. The screen , chassis, etc were older tech but the modem/SoC updated and set to fewer fixed configurations. Apple really didn't know to do a deliberately more affordable phone. They mainly just knew how to sell 'old' ones as 'new.

What has happened is that Apple has just chopped off the 3+ year old stuff. It is latest , latest -1 , then flip to 'e'. I suspec that is partially because competition ( both used market and Android phones is getting better the older the tech gets. ) . that is what is leading to the higher price point. The basic phone design is not quite as old (and the screen sizes have crept larger... but so have all other phones.)

Second, the other minor contributing thing to make the phones more expensive has been "Apple Intelligence'. As long as that is in play (with higher RAM/NAND capacity demands) 'cheaper' likely isn't coming. If path failed completely then that might open the door wider for selling older stuff longer, but I wouldn't hold my breath on that.

Apple is doing their own modem. That probably is more 'control over evolution' than it is 'cheaper' ( Qualcomm was expensive, but so is rolling your own modem independently with pragmatically limited unit sales. ) Wafer costs and package construction costs are not getting any cheaper also. The RAM/NAND being higher priced next year (or two) may be somewhat temporary, but the other components are pretty likely to take the 'now more expensive' mantle over time.


Loads of people who need a phone that can handle 'apps', given that they have become such currency -- I had to download an app just to park my car today -- but who don't need all the bells and whistles.

If hold onto iPhone longer than the cost/yr goes down as buy them less frequently. That is the other factor. There is more than one demographic in iPhone marketplace. Some folks are keeping longer (versus fast churn crowd). Some cellphone vendors are drifting back into the "keep a long term contract at higher prices and we'll give you a 'free' phone." game. Personally, I think that has lots to do with Apple's limited line up problems where new options they try fail. It isn't the phone as much as the fact as the Pro and/or regular latest iPhone are the 'free' give aways and many folks take 'free' (with indirect hidden costs) over alternative option that is a better 'fit'. [ The iPhone mini , Plus , Air ... none of those typically get the 'free phone' treatment in cell service vendor 'deals'. ]

Some of the discount carriers will run specials on the lower end iPhones. ( At the moment, cricket wireless has a 16e for $79 if port your number to their service. ) Again, Apple is relying on the service vendors to make the actual cost of the phone disappear into other monthly payments.


People who don't spend their life glued to it, but still need something that works.

those folks make Apple less money. The folks who might buy a $2000 iPhone Ultra every two years to max out on the notification crack high tend to more 'easy' money for Apple. But the ones in the fast churn crowd are pretty close and disrupt this affordable submarket just enough.

If the overall iPhone market growth started to shrink and Apple was forced to look at pulling in new users then maybe that would get them to focus on something designed to be more affordable from scratch. I doubt they work on that until they think it is inevitable. ( for a while they will 'wish' the problem away.)
 
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As I said, Geekbench. Most users wouldn't be able to tell the two chips apart because for day-to-day tasks or doomscrolling smartphones have had plenty fast chips for many years now.

Google states newer Pixel devices will receive 7 years of software updates. Apple usually supports devices with feature updates for around 7 years, but they never promise anything in advance. So I'd say they're about even in that department.

Saying that the usable lifespan will be significantly lower is pure speculation. I could speculate it'll be longer because it'll run the latest software in 7 years, and after that Android apps usually support older Android versions for quite a while because of the fragmented ecosystem, so whatever OS the 10a ends up on will probably run popular smartphone apps for even longer than the 17e.

In contrast, even devices as recent as the iPhone 15 miss quite a few features from current and likely future software updates, as Apple set the minimum spec for Apple Intelligence to 8 GB of RAM.

But I get the bias considering the forum we're on.

Bias?

You’ve giving android handsets a pass because “most people will never notice the difference” and “smartphones have been fast enough for quite a while” whereas i can instantly tell the difference between different generations of A series chip, and the past 2-3 generations of them are still faster than 90% of current android handsets on the market.

You then try and conflate “support” with “new feature support” like that’s not a thing with android handsets as well.

And you come here and say we are biased
 
Isn’t it actually the other way around? That it would make sense to produce a more affordable model, since people would buy that instead of used iPhones? Apple doesn’t earn anything from the second-hand iPhone market.
Well, Apple takes trade-ins of all varieties. They sell phones in good shape as officially refurbished and probably sell off the others to third party vendors (or use them for parts?).

Even if an old iphone is sold and bought outside of apple having anything to do with it directly, having users in their ecosystem is very likely to produce revenue for them (subscriptions, app purchases, future hardware purchases).

So, introducing a new phone that would compete with the used phone market would just dilute that price point and drive prices of all devices down, making it harder to get whatever they would want to charge for such a device.
 
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So because a Laptop is bigger it must be more expensive? That's not how it works with electronics.
Downsizing a ton of components like camera, sensors like proximity, gyroscope etc, OLED screen, and so forth into a small phone is mutch mutch more expensove than putting the same into a laptop 5 times the size.

Or why do you think all those cheap Windows Laptops are really clunky and bulky? Right - because they've to be cheap. Downsizing and making stuff slim and sexy is expensive.
Not to mention Neo doesn’t have as many components /cellular modem in addition to compactness of the device.
 
Apple did make the semi-budget SE series, and they were and are perfect for me. I'm sorry to say that I don't think they sold that well. The SE had everything it needed, but, omitted the nicer camera options, and, it seems that to most people I know, the high-end cameras were what they really wanted. I think that if they sold well, Apple would have continued that product line. I'm hoping that it comes back before I need to replace my SE3. Back in the day, a surprising number of people carried SLRs around for travel. Most people seem to find high-end cell phone cameras sufficient, and a whole lot easier to carry.
The SE series was not “budget”.
Consider that when the first generation SE launched in 2016 at $399, literally the most premium, top-of-the-line iPhone started at $749 for a 6S+, and Androids that cut the iPhone significantly on price were a dime a dozen.

And the second you start to factor in inflation the picture becomes even more clearer, $399 in 2016 is over $540 today. And the Android premium market is significantly bigger than it was in 2016, meaning that Apple is no longer competing with cheap $100 pieces of junk, but with very comparable well speced $500-$700 phones on the low-end.
Even the SE3 bumped its starting price to $429 and for even a comparable amount of storage to the 16e’s 128 GB you were looking at over $500.

The 17e, and the 16e before it, *are* the new SE. they are the same price a new SE would have been if it was released in 2026, not 2020 or 2016.
 
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Yeah, perhaps based on the S10 (Apple watch SoC) in the body of the iPhone 5s. That would be cool.
Oh goodness I would buy that today if it were released. I hate how big phones have gotten over the years. I recently tried to use my 2016 SE as my phone, and sadly it's just not doable for my needs anymore. I so miss that form factor (and the headphone jack!) but it seems most people don't agree. 😖
 
But the 17e costs as much as a laptop!!! So still not really a "budget" phone. That's my point.
But when you look at the Apple phone lineups they have always been about the same price as the MacBooks. Are you for some reason equating physical size with price? So because a phone is smaller it should be much cheaper?

Relative to the cost of the components that makes no sense. A Neo has the same memory of an iPhone and the addition of some glass and aluminum really doesn't raise the cost that much. I'm not sure about the cost of a keyboard and track pad relative to the touch screen on an iPhone, but let's call the equal for arguments sake. Now consider that the processor on a Neo is a binned chip so pretty much no additional cost. As things stand they aren't swimming in binned chips and are having issues keeping up with demand for the chips needed for the Neo so there aren't any binned chip iPhones on the horizon.

So it would appear that that your premise that an iPhone should be cheaper (based on size??) doesn't hold up.
 
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