Time machine back-up

[LoopyLoo]

Hi there,

I changed by hard drive earlier this year and started using an external drive (WD Elements portable external HD) which is always connected as my time machine/for my backups.

It back-ups as always and I can see all the versions when I enter the time machine. However, today I went to try and restore a backup from the previous hour and all the back-ups are red lines. They may have always been red lines I've never noticed. I cannot select one to restore.

I realise how green I am about this but I've never needed to use this option before and none of the threads I have read seem to make sense/are applicable.

Did I need to format the HD before I started using it for backups? If so how do I format the HD so future backups are usable?

Is there any way to use any of the backups? Are none of them now usable?

Or can I not restore them as the iOS is not up to date - I am trying to free up internal storage to download Catalina. I thought you could restore old iOS versions so I didn't think you needed to...

I am very lost

L

 

[LoopyLoo]

PS

Previously I used an AirPort Time capsule.

Could I use migration assistant to restore a backup from the HD that way?

 

[hobowankenobi]

Not sure about the red line...but about formating, generally, yes. A direct-attached drive needs to be Mac OS Extended (Journaled). What format is the HD now?

Network drives are different...so format is not as restricted.

Do you still have the Time Capsule, or the HD from it to access?

If the data on the USB drive is visible, you might be able to grab it manually, but that can be tedious. Are you looking for a few lost files, or an entire user account or more?

 

[hobowankenobi]

Oh, and yes, you can always format a drive...but be aware that erases everything, so don't do that until you have restored or copied/saved any data that you need!

HFS+ is the old name for Mac OS Extended (Journaled). Confusing! Info here.

You said iOS...you mean MacOS, correct?

 

[James_C]

@LoopyLoo If by red lines you mean like in the image below as you mouse over the timeline it means that the backup can be restored now, either from a local snapshot or your backup drive.

Previously I used an AirPort Time capsule.

Could I use migration assistant to restore a backup from the HD that way?

Yes you can

 

[LoopyLoo]

Thank you so much for you reply.

Sorry I should have double-checked and the HD is formatted: Mac OS Extended (Journaled). So I don't need to format it.

I don't have the Airport or the HD that was associated with it.

I basically have all my storage on the external HD (music/photos/documents/pdfs etc). I just go into it to get them as needed. I store very little on the internal drive. I was trying to clean it up to install Catalina, accidentally deleted something and wanted to restore a backup from an hour previously and couldn't.

So originally, I wanted to restore some files. However I am now more concerned that my back-ups are not working/accessible.

I meant MacOS not iOS.

Yes this screenshot above is exactly what I get but all the bars are red when I scroll over them. When I select an older the back-up and then go into it I can see that individual things can be restored (e.g. apps/.doc) as the restore button becomes active. However I thought it would be possible to simply choose to restore the entire "thing" from say two hours ago, rather than as you say tediously selecting individual items. I'm almost 100% certain I've done this before - but it was easily three years ago so I can't remember the specifics....

Thank you again for your patience and prompt reply

L

 

[James_C]

Yes this screenshot above is exactly what I get but all the bars are red when I scroll over them. When I select an older the back-up and then go into it I can see that individual things can be restored (e.g. apps/.doc) as the restore button becomes active. However I thought it would be possible to simply choose to restore the entire "thing" from say two hours ago, rather than as you say tediously selecting individual items. I'm almost 100% certain I've done this before - but it was easily three years ago so I can't remember the specifics....

If you want a complete Time Machine restore then you can use Migration Assistant to restore your system from your Time Machine Backups.

Can I check one point

I changed by hard drive earlier this year and started using an external drive (WD Elements portable external HD) which is always connected as my time machine/for my backups.

Does this mean you have files stored on your WD Elements external hard disk as well as using it for a Time Machine Backup ?

The reason I ask the question is that Time Machine can't backup files stored on the same external disk that is being used for backup. If you don't have another Backup system if you lose that disk you will lose any files stored on that disk.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I strongly advise making a backup of your TimeMachine backup. Hard Drives can fail without warning and TimeMachine backups have been known to posit corrupt backups at times, and people don’t realize it until they need the backup and it can’t be used.

Don’t be caught off guard.

 

[LoopyLoo]

Yes I use the WD Elements external hard disk both as storage and as a Time Machine backup. I did not realise that would be an issue. I have never had to restore/use the TMbackup since I changed.

Do you mean that you cannot use the one HD for both backups and storage? In that instance, I could just get second external drive to use solely as storage and then leave this original one for my TM backup - would that be a solution?

Or were you simply pointing out that I need a better/second backup system for my storage in case something happens to HD that has everything on it?!

Thank you again,
L

 

[LoopyLoo]

I strongly advise making a backup of your TimeMachine backup. Hard Drives can file without warning and TimeMachine backups have been known to posit corrupt backups at times, and people don’t realize it until they need the backup and it can’t be used.

Don’t be caught off guard.

Thank you for the tip. I have had to take a crash course and it's a lot to absorb but I am trying to keep up

How do you go about making a backup of your TimeMachine backup - do you just make sure you have a copy of the backup files on two separate HD's? Do you do this every day? It sounds time-consuming (but doable just wondering the most efficient way to backup). What is the most common choice for Mac users?

L

 

[Apple_Robert]

Thank you for the tip. I have had to take a crash course and it's a lot to absorb but I am trying to keep up

How do you go about making a backup of your TimeMachine backup - do you just make sure you have a copy of the backup files on two separate HD's? Do you do this every day? It sounds time-consuming (but doable just wondering the most efficient way to backup). What is the most common choice for Mac users?

L

You can make a copy on two different HD’s. In my opinion, you should use Carbon Copy Cloner as your secondary backup. It will make a bootable clone of your entire drive and it does it a lot faster than TimeMachine.

 

[LoopyLoo]

I will have a look into that. I do need a second HD as a back up for my storage anyway as the vast majority of my files are on the HD, so I should probably do that and then look into CarbonCopyCloner for the Time Machine backups.

Thank you so much for the quick replies and the advice Much appreciated!

L

 

[hobowankenobi]

Yes, all files should be in AT LEAST 2 places. One nice thing about TM is you plug in the drive and it catches up. In a perfect world, you would have 2 TM drives and rotate at least once a week. So if one fails, you don't lose everything.

With two matching drives, you don't even have to change cables or power supplies (if 3.5 w/power plug).

And yes, while you can store files on and use an external, if that drive dies, you would lose both your live files AND your backup!

Also...TM will fill a volume over time, and then when close to full, it will automatically delete older copies to make room for newer versions. So the bigger the volume, the more history it can hold. Using the free space cuts into that. That alone is enough to not use the same volume for TM as for file storage.

 

[hobowankenobi]

Backup is big, messy issue, with lots of different views on all the tools out there. TM is good, but third party tools are more robust, feature-rich, and flexible. If you want to move beyond TM (either replace or supplement), check out many of the existing threads here and elsewhere...like this or this or this.

 

[James_C]

Do you mean that you cannot use the one HD for both backups and storage? In that instance, I could just get second external drive to use solely as storage and then leave this original one for my TM backup - would that be a solution?

Or were you simply pointing out that I need a better/second backup system for my storage in case something happens to HD that has everything on it?!

Thank you again,
L

You can use the same external disk to backup your Mac's Internal Drive and any other external Drives as well as storing files on that hard disk. However any files that you store on the external hard disk (used by time machine) will not be backed up by time machine. So if the External HD fails or stolen then you will lose your backup and the files stored on the external hard disk.

Ideally you should have two external drives, one for your files ( If you can't fit everything on your internal hard disk) and one for your backups. Then Time Machine can backup everything on your Internal and External ( when Connected) Drive. I should mention Time Machine will automatically exclude any external drive, you need to go into Time Machine preferences, options and delete the exclusion.

I strongly advise making a backup of your TimeMachine backup

I would not advise making a backup of your time machine backup as if for some reason the Time Machine backup becomes corrupt then you have a backup of a corrupt backup.

As @hobowankenobi says a good backup solution is to have two backups in two places. This could be Time Machine which I think is a good choice for 1 backup as it something that is very easy to use and can be used to recover Files, Photos and emails as well as a complete recovery solution. The second backup could be a carbon copy cloner backup of your Mac and files stored on an external drive. Alternatively you could use a cloud based solution like Backblaze.

The advantage of cloud based solution is that if god forbid someone steals your Mac and External Drive or your house burns down, you will be able to recover your data. Alternatively you could store a carbon Copy Cloner backup at a different location.

 

[HDFan]

I strongly advise making a backup of your TimeMachine backup. Hard Drives can fail without warning and TimeMachine backups have been known to posit corrupt backups at times, and people don’t realize it until they need the backup and it can’t be used.

Totally agree. Have lost a lot of TM backups.

You can make a copy on two different HD’s. In my opinion, you should use Carbon Copy Cloner as your secondary backup.

You can clone a disk using a number of apps. CCC tends to be the most recommended.

then look into CarbonCopyCloner for the Time Machine backups.

You use CCC for cloning a disk, not for TM.

As @hobowankenobi says a good backup solution is to have two backups in two places.

The most common backup recommendations are 3-2-3 or 3-3-3. 3-2-3 means three different backups in 2 different media types in 3 separate locations. Locations could be cloud, bank vault, etc. Media types normally would mean disk, tape, cloud, etc. Since tape is impractical and you use disks make sure they are not the same model, even better not the same manufacturer. A 3-3-3 strategy is the most conservative.

Here's a Backblaze post on 3-2-1:

Backup Strategies: Why the 3-2-1 Backup Strategy is the Best

A Backblaze survey revealed 54% of people said they know someone or have themselves recently lost data. Find out what you can do to prevent data loss.

www.backblaze.com

 

[jparker402]

I use Time Machine with a WD My Passport for Mac connected to it for backing up. Plus I save files to iCloud. (But somehow doubt if system files and apps are saved to iCloud. Suppose they are saved to Time Machine, but don't know that for certain.) Are you folks suggesting that I need yet another back up system?

 

[HDFan]

Are you folks suggesting that I need yet another back up system?

Normally yes. A bootable clone backup will allow you to quickly restore your system if it fails. Much faster than Time Machine and less subject to corruption.

 

[James_C]

I use Time Machine with a WD My Passport for Mac connected to it for backing up. Plus I save files to iCloud. (But somehow doubt if system files and apps are saved to iCloud. Suppose they are saved to Time Machine, but don't know that for certain.) Are you folks suggesting that I need yet another back up system?

iCloud only saves what you put into iCloud (so will not normally store system files and apps). iCloud is not really a backup solution, is is principally a way to Sync your files across multiple devices. So if a file becomes corrupted or deleted, it will be corrupted or removed from all your devices. It can be helpful in the case of hardware failure as you will still have a copy in the cloud.

Time Machine will backup everything on your internal hard disk, including apps and system files. My favourite feature is if you accidentally delete a file, photo or email, you can 'pop' into time machine go back to the point in time that file /photo/ email existed and restore it.

As @HDFan suggests it is not ideal to completely rely on Time Machine as it exists an external drive either physically connected to your Mac or at least connected to the same local network. So in the event of a house fire or theft you may lose both your Mac and your Time Machine drive. In addition Time Machine sometimes can get corrupted (rare but it happens) so having a 2nd Backup solution preferably a cloud based one or something like Carbon Copy Cloner that you can keep at another location can give you additional security.

 

[jparker402]

iCloud only saves what you put into iCloud (so will not normally store system files and apps). iCloud is not really a backup solution, is is principally a way to Sync your files across multiple devices. So if a file becomes corrupted or deleted, it will be corrupted or removed from all your devices. It can be helpful in the case of hardware failure as you will still have a copy in the cloud.

Time Machine will backup everything on your internal hard disk, including apps and system files. My favourite feature is if you accidentally delete a file, photo or email, you can 'pop' into time machine go back to the point in time that file /photo/ email existed and restore it.

As @HDFan suggests it is not ideal to completely rely on Time Machine as it exists an external drive either physically connected to your Mac or at least connected to the same local network. So in the event of a house fire or theft you may lose both your Mac and your Time Machine drive. In addition Time Machine sometimes can get corrupted (rare but it happens) so having a 2nd Backup solution preferably a cloud based one or something like Carbon Copy Cloner that you can keep at another location can give you additional security.

"...so having a 2nd Backup solution preferably a cloud based one....that you can keep at another location can give you additional security." What are examples of these cloud based solutions/systems? And could any be bootable, as HDfan suggests?

 

[James_C]

What are examples of these cloud based solutions/systems? And could any be bootable, as HDfan suggests?

The advantages of cloud backup is much like Time Machine it can be setup to automatically backup your system. The problem with other external drive backup solutions kept offsite is you have to remember to bring the disk back home, connected it and start the backup. With a cloud based backup you can set it up and automate the backup process. I would regard the cloud based backup solution as a failsafe in case your primary backup solution does not work. The reason is with Carbon Copy Cloner or Time Machine you can normally restore you system in a few hours. With a cloud based solution you have to wait for it to download or for a disk to be sent to you. Obviously a cloud based solution is not normally bootable.

One backup solution that I suggest you look at is Backblaze, but there are others like idrive.

 

[Boyd01]

I also use Backblaze for three Macs and a Windows virtual machine. It came in handy a couple months ago when an old external drive began to fail. This is not something you can boot from however, it is just intended for your user files, it does not backup system folders or even the applications folder. And there are lots of file types it ignores as a default, although most of those can be included by tweaking the settings.

I use time machine to backup to a server on my LAN (which is a 2012 quad Mini), make bootable clones on external SSD's and have additional external disks for clones. Have been using Macs since 1985 and still have files going that far back, I wouldn't want to lose any of that!

 

[LoopyLoo]

While I appreciate all the good intentioned advice we long ago veered off from where I could follow or understand the terminology or suggestions being offered.

I would be grateful if anyone is so inclined to very simply and with as little short-hand/jargon/anecdotes as possible advise what the goal is here and how best I can back-up by internal drive and store my files (as if you are explaining it to a small child )

Starting with the basics - I have one external hard drive I use to back-up and store all my files. The back-ups are on the time machine which is my external hard drive correct?

Thank you all again for your enthusiastic attempts to educate me I promise I am trying!

L

 

[Boyd01]

It's really pretty simple. If you're already using Time Machine with an external drive, that's a good start! But one backup is not enough. At a minimum, I'd suggest getting a second external disk, then use Carbon Copy Cloner to create a bootable clone. That might sound confusing, but it's really quite simple and you can basically just click a button to make it happen. They have a fully-functional free trial: https://bombich.com

Now, for a third level of security, you could use a cloud service like Backblaze. Also really simple and can all be done online. Once you set it up, it just runs in the background like Time Machine. They also have a free trial: https://www.backblaze.com/cloud-backup.html

Now, depending on how concerned you are, you could add a second time machine disk and/or a second clone disk - you might even store these somewhere else, so you'll be covered in the event of a major disaster at your home.

 

[hobowankenobi]

While I appreciate all the good intentioned advice we long ago veered off from where I could follow or understand the terminology or suggestions being offered.

I would be grateful if anyone is so inclined to very simply and with as little short-hand/jargon/anecdotes as possible advise what the goal is here and how best I can back-up by internal drive and store my files (as if you are explaining it to a small child )

Starting with the basics - I have one external hard drive I use to back-up and store all my files. The back-ups are on the time machine which is my external hard drive correct?

Thank you all again for your enthusiastic attempts to educate me I promise I am trying!

L

I warned ya...it's messy.

Different solutions for different risk and comfort levels. My guidelines (others will have different priorities):

Prioritize the most likely lost data event first, and work your way down. Most lost data is drive failure, computer failure, or a user event. Much less common but rea threats would be: theft, fire, flood, tornado (any disaster), blackouts and brownouts, lightning strikes, etc.

1. Have all important user data in at least two places. Three is much better. This means all files that are irreplaceable (think family photos, financial records, projects, thesis papers, that great novel you are working on, etc.)

2. Be sure it is automatic. While manual or semi-automatic works...the tech world is littered with horror stories of Murphy's Law. Stuff like (I have seen all of these and more):

• I got busy and have not backed up for a few weeks/months.
• The backups failed a while back, but I was unaware.
• My important file is corrupt/deleted/lost and my backup drive died the next day.
• My laptop got stolen, and the backup was in the bag with it.
• My business burned down and all the backups were there too.
• I went to restore my backups, and the files are too old.
• I went to restore my backups, and the files are too new.
• I forget the password to my encrypted folder/disk.
• Can you get the data off my laptop? It was in a bunker that was hit by an RPG when I was stationed in Iraq.

3. Keep data safe. Off-site is best (like a cloud backup), but perhaps in the basement in a fireproof, waterproof safe is good enough. I know some folks (family or friends) that do weekly backups, and then they swap drives so backups are at each other's house. They each have two drives, so one is always at the other's house.

4. Cloned or bootable backups of entire systems are very handy. If a machine dies/is stolen/gets abducted by aliens you replace it and restore the OS from the clone, along with all installed apps, user accounts, preferences, licenses, settings, etc.

5. Test backups. Nobody ever wants to open the trunk and find out the spare tire is flat. Same for backups. Practice and test restoring data, booting to clones so you know how it works, and that it works. Backups are very important...but restoring backups is even more important. Good backup tools warn you when something is wrong, or if scheduled events don't happen.

Bonus points for #4: sometimes an OS update breaks something very important. With a cloned backup, you can simply roll everything back. Like a real time machine. Always clone a drive just before big updates.

-----

Also, complicating backup choices are (at least) two different priorities:

1. Continuous backup: Most recent work/project files that are constantly changing. This means nearly live, constant backups...something tools like TM are good at.​

​

2. Archives: Copies of important files that don't change often, and don't need immediate access. They just need to be there for disaster recovery. Think family photos. Cloud or off-site backups are a good fit.​

Some folks are all about #1, some only really worry about #2....and many truly need both. Because of all this and more—I tried to keep it short!—you will get lots of different advice.