Time Machine does not backup T5

Discussion in 'macOS Mojave (10.14)' started by padams35, Jan 22, 2019.

  1. padams35 macrumors regular

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    #1
    I have a 256GB internal SSD and an external 500GB T5 with my iTunes/iPhoto/Steam libraries.

    I also have a 2TB external HDD I'm trying to use for time machine... except that only the 256GB internal is being backed up. The external SSD is shown in the 'exclude from backup list', where it is grayed out and can't be removed.

    Any idea on why the Samsung T5 is persistently excluded from backup and how I can make it included? Or does anyone have a preferred alternative method for backing up a secondary drive?
     
  2. Fishrrman macrumors P6

    Fishrrman

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    #2
    "Or does anyone have a preferred alternative method for backing up a secondary drive?"

    Yes, I have one.

    First, I suggest you do this:
    PARTITION your external 2tb [backup] drive into two partitions.

    WARNING WARNING WARNING!
    Partitioning may DESTROY the data that is currently on the drive.
    I don't consider this a problem, TM will just "start over" and completely rebuild the backup...

    The first partition can be 1500gb (1.5tb).
    The second partition can be 500gb (actually, whatever is "left").

    Now, here's how it will work in actual use:

    The first (larger) partition will serve as your TM backup.

    The second will become a "cloned backup" of your 500gb t5 drive.

    But you'll need cloning software with which to create/maintain it.
    I'd suggest either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper.
    Either is free to use for 30 days, so trying this costs you nothing.

    SuperDuper may have a slight advantage here.
    One used to be able to run a "full clone" (i.e., everything gets cloned) without having to register it.
    To do an incremental backup (only changed/added files get updated) you have to register it.
    That's the way it used to be, not sure if it's still like that.

    That's my strategy.
    A cloned backup of the t5 will "look and feel" EXACTLY like the original.

    The only way you're going to understand this fully, is to try it yourself and see.
     
  3. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

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    #3
    How is this drive formatted?
     
  4. padams35 thread starter macrumors regular

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    #4
    Presumably exFAT. I wasn't using it as a boot drive and don't think I ever reformatted it. Is that the problem?
     
  5. maflynn Moderator

    maflynn

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    #5
    I believe you need to have it formatted HFPS HFS+ or APFS

     
  6. chrfr macrumors 604

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    #6
    Time Machine will only back up HFS+ and APFS disks, so yes, that's your problem.
     
  7. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

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    #7
    Yep... as @maflynn mentioned there... the drive needs to be Mac OS Extended (HFS+) to work with TM.
     
  8. ignatius345 macrumors 68020

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    #8
    If you have enough room on that big Time Machine drive, you could copy your data from the T5 to that temporarily (verify that copy is good!), reformat the T5 to APFS, then copy everything back to the T5.

    Alternately, you could just keep doing what you're doing and make periodic manual backups to the Time Machine drive off the T5. Carbon Copy Cloner will make quick work of backing up to a separate folder on that Time Machine drive.

    Either way, always wise to back up so nothing ever exists on only one drive...
     
  9. padams35 thread starter macrumors regular

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    Nov 10, 2016
    #9
    Ok, I'll try copying the data to the time machine disk, reformatting the T5, and copying everything back.

    If that doesn't work I'll take a look at carbon copy.

    Next question, is there a fast way to keep backups encrypted on an HDD? I used the Time Machine Encryption option when originally formatting this HDD, but that seems to be running significantly more slowly than the plan text backup used on my old computer.
     
  10. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

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    #10
    I would just stick with the encrypted TM option (that is what I use). How slow is this for you?
     
  11. BigMcGuire Contributor

    BigMcGuire

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    #11
    Just don't do the mistake I did. Encrypt your drive first in formatting, then set up time machine to backup - check box to encrypt, otherwise it will spend weeks encrypting the drive byte by byte only when the drive is connected. This is how I do my TM backups - no difference in TM backup speed to an encrypted drive vs unencrypted for me - only slow if I encrypted an unencrypted drive via time machine (that took FOREVER) -- format encrypted first. Be aware formatting wipes out any data on the drive.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 22, 2019 ---
    Highly recommend this advice. I use Carbon Copy Cloner myself to 2 external drives. It's a great tool and works with newest formatting too.
     
  12. dai-leung macrumors regular

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    #12
    How to clone an (Journaled formatted) encrypted time machine backup disk?

    I searched the internet for help but came up empty. Is the following procedure correct?

    Q1) Firstly, Use Disk Utilities to erase and format the new disk to the same format as the old disk and check the encrypt button. After completion, open both disks, supply password, copy the file Backups.backupdb in the old disk to the old disk. This completes the cloning. Correct?

    I have never use an encrypted time machine backup before .
    Q2) other than the need of supplying the password each time when an encrypted TM disk is connected to the Mac, as far as usage or functionality is concern there is no difference between an unencrypted and encrypted TM backup. I could use an encrypted TM backup to restore files or migrate whole content to a new Mac. Correct?

    About the new Apple File System APFS
    Q3) 2TB SSD price has dropped significantly. Is there any significant advantage of using an APFS formatted SSD for Time Machine backup? One disadvantage seems to be an APFS disk can not be used on non APFS Mac (whereas an non APFS disk can be used on a APFS Mac), thus an APFS TM backup is less useful than a non APFS one. Correct?
     
  13. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

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    #13
    1. Yep... that will work. You can either encrypt or not encrypt the target drive though, either way will work.

    2. Works exactly the same as you said. The first time you attach the encrypted drive you will be asked for the password. In that same window check the box to remember that password in Keychain and you will not need to reenter the password on that Mac.

    3. TM does not support AFPS as the target disk. You still need to use HFS+.
     
  14. dai-leung macrumors regular

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    #14
    Sincere thanks!

    For Q1, So for cloning an encrypted TM backup, the target disk does not need to go through the “erase and encrypt” step, just the normal copy disk A to disk B. Correct?

    For Q3, I am using a SSD for CCC daily backup of an APFS Mac. Am I correct that the SSD should be HFS+ formatted so that I can use the CCC backup to externally boot both HFS+ as well as APFS Macs? An APFS CCC SSD backup can only boot APFS Macs, correct?
     
  15. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

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    #15
    Correct.

    Correct.... if you want to be able to boot that CCC drive on older Macs, you would want it in HFS+. But I'm thinking any Mac that would run Mojave would also work with APFS.
     
  16. dai-leung macrumors regular

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    #16
    Thanks again!

    I have read many of your answers for snapshots. I am confused about CCC snapshots. While fortunate to have your attention, I have the the following questions .

    Q1) there is no advantage of using CCC snapshots on the source as I already have time machine snapshots on the source (though CCC has different retention policy). In fact, there is an disadvantage: CCC snapshots eat up source disk space. Correct?

    Q2) CCC said, it could also do snapshots on an APFS external disk. So I do the first CCC backup by going to the task scheduler and select the external disk , then turn snapshots on and select the external disk for snapshots, and hourly snapshots will be created on the external disk(as long as it is not disconnected), correct?

    If the answer is “correct”, and since CCC snapshots are managed according to retention policy, does these snapshots constitute a versioned backup just like the time machine?

    What happens if the external disk is disconnected for a day then reconnect to the Mac again for CCC backup?
     
  17. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

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    #17
    Yes, CCC snapshots add the ability to restore to a point back in time unlike a regular CCC clone that can only restore to the latest copy. When you attach a CCC disk after a few days it will copy any saved snapshots from the internal drive to the CCC external drive.

    I don't use CCC snapshots as I don't need the ability to go back in time. I have TM and online backups with Arq to do that if needed.
     
  18. dai-leung macrumors regular

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    #18
    Can I format and encrypt the SSD using disk utilities then use it for CCC backup to gain the benefit of password protection? Or it works only for time machine?
     
  19. treekram macrumors 68000

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    #19
    About a month or so ago, I tried to copy my Time Machine backup using the Apple instructions below:
    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT202380

    In Mojave 10.14.4 (have not tried 10.14.5), this failed for me and another poster in another thread. I was trying to copy a ~680GB backup. It did work for a smaller backup which only had 2 backup dates (~20GB). There is another way to copy using the Restore function of Disk Utility but you may need to disable SIP for it to work (worked on SIP-disabled computer but not on SIP-enabled computer, did not try disabling SIP to see if it worked). The copy function that failed in Mojave 10.14.4 works in High Sierra. Either way of copying takes a long time to copy - when using High Sierra, it took about 6 hours to do the ~680GB copy. Using Disk Utility is a bit faster.

    Snapshots in CCC use the macos APFS snapshot functionality - with CCC you can manage the snapshots it creates. I'm starting to use this on my backup SSD instead of Time Machine for my main computer - I still use TM for my other computers (along with CCC clones). (For me, snapshots are enabled on the destination drive, not the source drive.)

    Re: CCC and encryption - CCC has pretty good documentation.
    https://bombich.com/kb/ccc5/working-filevault-encryption
     
  20. dai-leung macrumors regular

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    Aug 21, 2017
    #20
    Thanks!

    What is SIP? How do disable it?

    I read https://bombich.com/kb/ccc5/working-filevault-encryption. This is way above my head and beyond my ability to perform those tasks described in the ccc document as I am not a computer person. From your answer, does it mean that for a HD or SSD, I could not just erase and check the encrypt button and use it for CCC backup, and gain the benefit of password protection of the HD or SSD?

    Would you show how you do CCC backup to the external disk and also at the same time save the snapshots on the external disk?
     
  21. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

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    #21
    You can and that is what I do, but read that link @treekram gave you as it is a somewhat complicated.

    I'm not doing it the way the link describes. I just formatted the CCC drive as encrypted. That makes the CCC clone so it cannot be booted if that is something you are after.
     
  22. dai-leung macrumors regular

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    #22
    Do u mean “so it cannot be booted externally unless u supply the password”? So erase and encrypt an HD means that the contents of the HD can not be accessed unless a password is supplied and is a general method.

    Yes, this is what I am after.
    --- Post Merged, Jun 2, 2019 ---
    I have a new Mac Mojave, internal APFS SSD with 500GB data and a new external HD formatted HFS+ for use as time Machine backup. I expect the initial backup will take days.

    Q1) I understand that APFS uses pointer to mark off the initial volume to be backuped, subsequent changes to that volume are stored separately. So during the time that time Machine is doing its backup, can I use the Mac to do other works or it is prohibited?

    Q2) if I remove the external drive and go to work with the Mac, when I come home, can I reconnect the external drive to the Mac and resume the time machine backup or I have to start from scratch, I.e. a time machine backup can not be interrupted ?
     
  23. treekram macrumors 68000

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    #23
    The method of encrypting the drive that is suggested in the CCC documentation enables File Vault. File Vault and encrypting the drive during the erase process both encrypt the drive. There are differences between them but I don't think the encryption itself is any different.

    I don't think initial backup of 500GB in Time Machine will take days. If you try to encrypt a Time Machine backup that was not encrypted - I think people report that Time Machine tells them it will take a very long time.

    You can use the computer while doing a Time Machine backup. To my knowledge, Apple hasn't documented exactly how Time Machine uses APFS snapshots when doing a regular backup, but at least one reliable source says that if the disk being backed up is APFS, it will make a snapshot, compare that to a previous snapshot and then copy the new/modified files. But the ability to use the computer while Time Machine is doing a backup is not new to APFS.

    If you're doing an incremental backup, it's best to wait until the backup is done before removing the backup disk. Incremental backups usually don't take a long time unless you're doing the backup after an OS update, if Time Machine is pruning old backups or unless you've put a lot of data on the disk. In any of these cases, you should schedule a manual backup appropriately so that the next incremental backup won't take as long. If you find that backups are occurring when you want to take the computer away, you should consider re-scheduling the backups or just doing manual backups when it is convenient. On the Internet, at least some people say stopping the backup mid-way through a backup forced them to restart the backup from the start. Because of this, I assume that it's possible that a restart of the backup may be required when it is interrupted.

    With CCC and a backup APFS disk, you just do a normal cloning operation and have snapshots enabled on that disk. But I think you have to properly schedule how the snapshots are done and that would have to consider how you often you do backups. This can be pretty complicated (there are several different settings) and I just started using APFS snapshots on the backup disk in CCC. When I get more experience in using it, I might write something up on this. If you are going to use CCC on a backup SSD with APFS, I can look into what would be good settings for you but I would need to know exactly how much data you have, how big your backup SSD is (2TB I saw earlier) and how dynamic your data is - is large amounts of your data going to be changing often. Also, how often do you want to do a backup? But it looks like you haven't made a decision yet as to whether you're going to use Time Machine or CCC for your 2TB SSD.

    About your question on SIP. Do you actually need to copy a previous Time Machine to a new disk? You might just want to keep your old Time Machine disk and start a new one. Because of the problems that I encountered with copying Time Machine backups that I experienced in Mojave, for you, I think you would be better off just starting a new Time Machine disk.
     
  24. dai-leung macrumors regular

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    #24
    Thank you, You are too kind to answer my kindergartener level questions and in great details!

    If the two methods of protecting the CCC backup give equivalent result, then the method used by weaselboy by erase and encrypt is much easier to use for non computer person.

    Wouldn’t want to waste any more of your time. I look forward to reading your write up on CCC snapshots on external disk. There seems to be no example given in the CCC website on how to do this.

    I bought a SSD for CCC backup in case I need to externally boot another Mac when my Mac is lost or damaged. To avoid interrupting the initial time machine backup of a 500GB data new Mac, I first use the SSD to do the initial backup, then use the old Mac to copy the time machine backup from the SSD to an mechanical drive. The latter is what I want to use for time machine backup. If I were to use the mechanical drive to do the initial backup of the new Mac, it would have taken a long time preventing the use of the new Mac.

    Once again, my sincere thanks to your help!
     
  25. treekram macrumors 68000

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    #25
    You are correct in that right now, CCC does not have a guide for people in how to optimize using APFS snapshots (strongly suggested only to be done on SSD's) give different user situations. They have default settings for snapshots but to me, it didn't seem to fit my situation where I usually do an incremental backup every 2-4 weeks or just before an OS update. My primary clone is also a SSD and that I backup my user data every day (or every day that I actually create/modify files). So I think that the default settings for APFS snapshots in CCC won't fit every situation.

    So you did an initial Time Machine backup to the SSD? Is that correct? If so, how long did it take? Is your old Mac also on Mojave? You said that you had a 2TB SSD. Is that correct? What size is the HDD you want to copy the Time Machine backup to? If you answer these questions, I can suggest a way that would be easiest to copy the Time Machine backup from the SSD to the HDD.
     

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31 January 22, 2019