Time machine NAS backup

Discussion in 'OS X El Capitan (10.11)' started by MrMister111, Nov 28, 2015.

  1. MrMister111, Nov 28, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015

    MrMister111 macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    #1
    I'm going to buy a Seagate personal cloud NAS drive that says it's time machine compatible.

    I'm also going to use the NAS for streaming my video files to my TV, PS4 etc.

    Will I have to format the disk and partition the drive into a certain format for this to happen, if so what please?

    I was thinking as my iMac has a 2Tb fusion drive, maybe 2Tb for time machine and the rest for video etc. Can I have 2 partitions in different formats?

    Thanks
     
  2. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Location:
    California
    #2
    No you will not need to format the NAS drive. The NAS device will use its own format. Typically the NAS software has a method to allocate space for Time Machine without any partitioning at all.

    As far as space for the TM backup... it is really only somewhat related to the iMacs disk size. Usually you want to allocate 1.5 to 2X the space you actually intend to use on the internal for the external. So for example, if you think you will only ever have say 350GB of space used on the internal, then you would allocate around 700GB for Time Machine backups on the NAS. So just because you have a 2TB internal does not mean you need to allocate 4TB for backups. Make sense?
     
  3. MrMister111, Nov 28, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015

    MrMister111 thread starter macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    #3
    Thanks, I thought to use time machine it had to be in a specific HFS+ format?

    Don't think I'll fill 1Tb internal so maybe only give 1.5Tb for backup then

    Probably won't know setup options until get it. This is what manual days from downloading it... ImageUploadedByTapatalk1448726299.196785.jpg
     
  4. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Location:
    California
    #4
    That is only required for a locally attached disk like a USB disk. On networked drives it can use whatever format the server (NAS) is using. It does that by Time Machine creating a sparse bundle image on the networked drive that mimics HFS+. So when the backup starts, Time Machine mounts that sparse bundle image on the networked drive and to Time Machine that looks and works just like a local HFS+ drive.
     
  5. MrMister111 thread starter macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    #5
    Thanks again for explaining. So why are only some NAS time machine compatible?

    Can you use time machine as you would a normal HFS+ formatted drive could?
     
  6. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Location:
    California
    #6
    The key is the NAS needs to provide support for the Apple Filing Protocol (AFP). It is a networking protocol that Time Machine uses. If the NAS supports AFP, typically it will work for Time Machine. You can even take an old PC and run Linux on it with a package called Netatalk that provides AFP support and have a Time Machine server (NAS) device.

    Yep... it just puts the Time Machine backup inside that sparse bundle image, but otherwise works the same.
     
  7. hiddenmarkov macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2014
    Location:
    Japan
    #7

    This may vary by NAS vendor.


    I use synology. You have to a create share drive that supports an apple file system of some kind. Synology does this real easy. Not sure of option OP is looking at.

    Most NAS' use a more linux based file system TM may not see right off the bat. Many make this real easy to resolve though.



    OP for your other drive structures if seagate like synology you won't partition as it were. It should support file shares as file systems if needed. Or keep as what they set up as. I have the mentioned apple file share. Rest are generic ones seen by anything and useable, even by a MBP. A pseudo apple file system just in place to make TM happy really.


    Most NAS's I have seen you basically get the big drive you have in the file format it creates on setup (usually their proprietary one) and make "imaginary" specialized file system shares in that if needed. The NAS should handle any translation between the 2.

    Now if perchance a Final cut pro user...hopefully seagate nicer here but FCP does not like NAS' too much. Until you do a few things. For a few NAS (not sure of yours tbh) you have to create a ,dmg on your mac. Make it small as you will move to the NAS (why kill your time moving a 500 gb .dmg file/folder really) , then expand it to whatever size your heart desires on the NAS.

    This how I get my FCP to play real nice with the NAS I have. Key added step is open up that .dmg before your work with FCP to use it. Much like the installer .dmg's you have seen, you open the .dmg, it counts as a mounted drive and then your application install runs from that. Its just in this case you use the .dmg used space as a working drive more full time.


    Not sure of other apps that need this tbh. May just be an apple FCP thing.
     
  8. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Location:
    California
    #8
    How you setup the NAS for Time Machine certainly may vary, but no matter what NAS device you use Time Machine is going to create the backup inside a sparse bundle image. That does not vary.
     
  9. hiddenmarkov macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2014
    Location:
    Japan
    #9

    Very true. Post written while you wrote your response about AFP. Just bad timing on my part probably as we both gave a reason why it works to get apple support on a NAS...I didn't see your post to not be redundant. You type too fast or I type too slow....probably the later lol.
     
  10. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Location:
    California
    #10
    Ah... I did not notice the time of your post so I was a bit confused. :)
     
  11. stooovie macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2010
    #11
    Don't do it. Time Machine is notoriously unreliable with NAS. It's not worth it. It will bork your backup sooner or later, leaving you without reliable backup.
     
  12. Shmanky macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2005
    Location:
    Toronto
    #12
    OP wants to use a NAS for steaming videos and backup. I bought a WD MyCloud for these reasons and couldn't accomplish either. The WD MyCloud can only serve iTunes music files, not movies. And the WD MyCloud claims to be compatible with Time Machine, and it does work for a few days, then I always get the error message that I attached.

    Maybe the Seagate will be different. Confirm it can act as an iTunes server for video files in addition to audio files. And confirm it works reliably with Time Machine. The Apple Time Capsule works well with Time Machine.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. MrMister111 thread starter macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    #13
    I don't want it for an iTunes server so not bothered on that. I'll add my movie files to just share to Apple TV via a Plex server, which I've checked that the Seagate one has on it.

    I am a little worried on time machine on a NAS and the reason I was asking about it working on a NAS. Disappointed to hear that yours doesn't work on it when it's advertised as does. Have you contacted WD support to any answers?
     
  14. KALLT, Nov 28, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2015

    KALLT macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    #14
    I have the same problem with a Raspberry Pi and the aforementioned Netatalk program (tried it on both Linux and FreeBSD). This is definitely an issue that affects various devices and like stooovie I suspect that this is a bug in Time Machine. Caveat emptor.
     
  15. stooovie macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2010
    #15
    I'm extremely happy with MyCloud for storing all my media. I use RPi with OpenELEC on my TV and a couple of apps on iPad and iPhone for video playback. Even the cloud stuff works great - I'm able to stream content anywhere. But Time Machine does exactly what Shmanky screenshotted. And previous WD MyBookLive did the same thing. Don't do it. Buy a cheap USB drive and use that for backup.
     
  16. stooovie macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2010
    #16
    Didn't get any relevant support answer from WD. They just shake their head and tell me to re-create the backup. As if I didn't know that already.

    Unreliable backup = no backup at all (of course, no backup is ever completely reliable).
     
  17. MrMister111 thread starter macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    #17
    Not sure what RPi and OpenELEC are sorry.

    I want specifically to try and centralise though, i.e. Time machine backups and all my video.

    I do have an off-site cloud backup service as well do the time machine is a local backup for me.

    If mine is unreliable I'll keep emailing, I suggest you as well, although as you say sometimes get no where.
     
  18. KALLT, Nov 30, 2015
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2015

    KALLT macrumors 601

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2008
    #18
    Whom are you going to email? The problem lies in the Time Machine software. It doesn't matter which third-party hardware you use. If your Time Machine backup is corrupted, you'll lose everything on it. In addition, Time Machine is really, really, really slow over network. It took my Raspberry Pi (connected with Ethernet via my Wi-Fi network) 15 hours to make a backup of a 120 GB SSD. Even if it is much quicker over Ethernet alone, it will take forever to back up a 2 TB disk. Also, Time Machine works best when your backup disk is 2–3 the size of your main disk.

    See also this bug report: http://openradar.appspot.com/radar?id=5220285250797568. Apple said that they fixed the issue in Mavericks 10.9.5, but it has since resurfaced in Yosemite and is still open.
     
  19. stooovie macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2010
    #19
    Just don't backup with Time Machine via network. It just doesn't work reliably. Forget it. Not worth it. Slow and unreliable is the opposite from what you want in incremental backup.
     
  20. sunapple macrumors 6502a

    sunapple

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2013
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    #20
    Encountered the Time Machine error today after using it with my Synology NAS for about three months. It says it needs to completely start over which is not something I want to do on a regular basis.

    Can I use Carbon Copy Cloner instead? Seems to be the best backup solution for Mac. I just need reliable daily backups to my network drive.
     
  21. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Location:
    California
    #21
    Sure... CCC works over the network to a NAS.
     
  22. MrMister111 thread starter macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Jan 28, 2009
    #22
    Is CCC free to use for this application? and could you TC and CCC to the same NAS?
     
  23. Weaselboy Moderator

    Weaselboy

    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2005
    Location:
    California
    #23
    No... CCC is not free. Yes, you could setup the NAS software to set aside one section of the drive for CCC and another for TM, and they could both backup to the same NAS drive.
     
  24. Gmouse macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2014
    Location:
    Lakewood, CO
    #24
    I purchased the Seagate NAS for backups from Mac and Windows. I have Win 7, 8.1, 10, and rMB MacBook and 2014 Retina iMac backing up to it. Windows...have had no issues whatsoever, but, Time Machine...about every 2-3 months, I get message saying it's detected a corrupt backup, and must start all over again. I've written Seagate (says it should work fine), Apple (says it should work fine), and Apple Forums (says only an Apple NAS would be fully compliant with AFP and work reliably).

    Setting it up was a PITA, I found help here: http://pondini.org/OSX/Home.html, there is a section on copying your existing TM folder to the NAS, then switching over to it. Kinda worked OK.

    I'm pretty pissed at both Apple and Seagate for not putting out reliable information on getting a solid Time Machine backup working with available products (even if they would just state it does NOT work, is NOT supported, or...ANYTHING). It makes no sense to me why users would NOT want to use a NAS or some other network-connected storage for backups.

    Based on the issues and what others have said, I also use Carbon Copy Clone...<G> In all actuality, I probably don't really need TM, as I probably just need to backup some of my documents, mail, and files and some downloads. I've always been a believer in starting fresh, so, if I do lose my drive, I'd probably re-download and install my products.

    Good luck, OP!
     

Share This Page