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AMSOS

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Original poster
Recently Time Machine takes forever to back to my 1TB external. There's still about 320GB of space, so I am not sure why this is happening.

I went ahead and deleted old backups that I can see in the TM folders. These are from ten years ago and not needed anymore. Even now, however, it seem to be taking too much time to backup.

The last backup said it needs 5 hours or more to complete, so I cancelled it when it was at 16 percent.

Do I need a new disk (this one seems fine but it is 8 years old and lightly used)?

Is there some TM setting that I need to know about to resolve this?

Thanks!
 
Did you check the SMART status of the drive?

The beauty of Time Machine is the lack of settings, so if backups are taking a significant amount of time, then there's only a few reasons why
 
I went ahead and deleted old backups that I can see in the TM folders. These are from ten years ago and not needed anymore. Even now, however, it seem to be taking too much time to backup.
If you had 10 yr old backups on TM drive then this really old TM drive formatted HFS+. APFS TM drives have only been around for about 5 yrs or so. What make/model/spec of ext drive used for TM? What version macOS using and what are TM settings? Backing up other external drives to TM? Are you using TM drive for data and for backups? TM disk partitioned?
 
I think @Bigwaff is right and that TM drive must be formatted HFS+. If so, over 10 years, that's a *LOT* of hard-linked directories; I wouldn't be surprised if performance suffered a lot. The newer APFS format uses snapshots for each backup and I would expect it would be much more performant.

I suspect if you were to "start over" (with APFS) then the drive would perform like it used to. That would mean losing your old backups. Some people want to keep all the old backups (I don't know why) but I would just start a new APFS backup series and see how it goes.
 
Did you check the SMART status of the drive?

The beauty of Time Machine is the lack of settings, so if backups are taking a significant amount of time, then there's only a few reasons why
First, apologies for the tardy reply. I checked this now. For my Mac internal SSD it says "Verified," but for the external HDD it simply says, "SMART status : Not Supported."
Please advice further...
 
If you had 10 yr old backups on TM drive then this really old TM drive formatted HFS+. APFS TM drives have only been around for about 5 yrs or so. What make/model/spec of ext drive used for TM? What version macOS using and what are TM settings? Backing up other external drives to TM? Are you using TM drive for data and for backups? TM disk partitioned?
Sorry for the late response. Here's what you asked for:

Format-Mac OS Extended (Journaled)
It's a Seagate 1 TB
Used space is 683 GB. Available space is 317 GB
No other
I have backups from my previous two Macs. Basically I created new backups once I bought newer Macs. There are a total of 3 backups.
There are also straightforward copy-paste backups of pictures, books, and audio files. These are of course outside the folder structure of the TM backups.
No, the TM disk is not partitioned.
Thanks!
 
I think @Bigwaff is right and that TM drive must be formatted HFS+. If so, over 10 years, that's a *LOT* of hard-linked directories; I wouldn't be surprised if performance suffered a lot. The newer APFS format uses snapshots for each backup and I would expect it would be much more performant.

I suspect if you were to "start over" (with APFS) then the drive would perform like it used to. That would mean losing your old backups. Some people want to keep all the old backups (I don't know why) but I would just start a new APFS backup series and see how it goes.
Ah, I see. Basically you're saying I simply wipe the drive, then reformat it with the latest Mac filing system. Will that also allow it to connect to Windows computers, if needed?

What do I do with the other data I've saved over the years through simply copy-paste (pictures, books, audio files)?

You're so right. I am not likely to go back to those old backups. But it feels strange to wipe out that older part of your life now that it's there is some form. Plus, who knows I may just end up needing to go back to those files for some unknown issue that crops up in the future 🙂
 
Ah, I see. Basically you're saying I simply wipe the drive, then reformat it with the latest Mac filing system. Will that also allow it to connect to Windows computers, if needed?
Yes, that's what I'm suggesting. You posted above that the Time Machine (TM) drive is formatted "Mac OS Extended (Journaled)" (that's the same as what I called HFS+). A TM backup in this older format uses "hard links" to directories and files that exist in previous backups, in order to present an entire-disk view of each backup and not have to have multiple copies of those directories and files. My hypothesis is that after 10 years, there are so many of these hard links in the volume's filesystem that it takes a "long time" for the HDD to follow them (and add another link) on each backup, making the backup slow. (We don't have real solid evidence that this is the cause, though!)

A fresh, new TM backup disk would be (must be) formatted in the newer APFS format. Although APFS has some issues with HDDs, APFS has a feature called "snapshots": a much more efficient way to present the entire-disk view of old backups. It shouldn't get bogged down with multitudes of links to individual folders and files, even after years of use (by my understanding).

Many posters will argue about how it's "bad" to use APFS with HDDs. They are usually talking about potential fragmentation of the files that are modified, spreading parts of them around on the HDD and impacting performance. IMHO this is not a big problem with TM backup drives, as the vast majority of files are never modified. If it does severely impact performance someday in the future (like, years from now), my solution is to just wipe the TM drive and start again. (My policy is not to use TM backups as "archives" of stuff I *might* want in the future. If I think I might want it, I don't delete it from my main drive(s)!)

Anyway, for a new TM backup, macOS forces use of APFS, so you don't have much of a choice.


What do I do with the other data I've saved over the years through simply copy-paste (pictures, books, audio files)?
Very important: you must copy this data somewhere else if you decide to start a fresh TM backup! If I remember correctly, a new TM backup will use the entire disk (partition) and won't allow you to store other files on the TM volume.

Does this "other data" exist somewhere else already? Ideally, it should not exist only on the TM drive. If the backup drive fails, you've lost your only copy! Ideally this "other data" will be on another drive (e.g., a different external drive) AND you would set TM to backup that external drive to your TM drive (in addition to your internal drive).

If "other data" is only on the TM drive, I have a suggestion:

get a new 1TB external and use it as the new TM backup drive. Use your existing Seagate TM disk for the "other data", only. Set TM to include the older Seagate in backups to the new external. This way, if your 8 year old Seagate fails, all the "other data" will be available on the (newer) backup drive.

You're so right. I am not likely to go back to those old backups. But it feels strange to wipe out that older part of your life now that it's there is some form. Plus, who knows I may just end up needing to go back to those files for some unknown issue that crops up in the future 🙂
Yes, I understand. It's possible you'll want something from it in the future. If you're able to follow my suggestion above, you can retain the old backups (on the "other data" drive). You don't need to use Time Machine to access files in the old backups. Also, you could delete all backups older than, say, three years, to free up more space on the "other data" drive. (Don't try to backup the old backups, though! If you keep them, you will probably need to add Exclusions to the TM settings.)

Sorry to be so long-winded! Sometimes I go a little overboard. : )

I do want to emphasize that this is what I would do, but since we don't know for sure what's causing your extremely long backups, I cannot guarantee that starting a fresh TM backup would solve your probelm. Just that I would try it. It seems pretty easy, to me, and worth a try. If a fresh new TM disk was still so slow, I would replace the drive.

It could well be that the old HDD is starting to fail, and is causing slow reads and writes. Unfortunately, if the external HDD is conected via USB (i.e., not attached via Thunderbolt), I think it's difficult to install the neccessary software to access its SMART attributes (others might know more about this). Plus, personally, I've rarely found SMART information to be very conclusive.
 
This is quite helpful but a bit overwhelming as I am not an expert.
Can you please confirm that the following are the steps I should take.
First, here is the situation with my two ext HDD. Both are 1 TB, one is a Seagate, the other a Toshiba.
The main backup drive (Seagate) has 3 TM backups from 3 different Mac laptops. It also has other misc. data (pictures, Lightroom photos, pdf, Word files). This is the drive that is taking forever to backup via TM.
The Toshiba also has a TM backup from one previous Mac laptop. It also has the Mac Photo archive library. I was told that this library cannot be on the same drive that uses TM, so I put it on the Toshiba, and stopped using Toshiba as a TM backup. It also has misc. data.

Moving on, I can get a new ext HDD and use that as the main backup for my current computer. For that I should assign the complete drive to TM, and use AFPS filing system.
So, how do I move the 2 older backups (data from my previous 2 laptops) from Seagate to the new drive? Just copy and paste them? And, go into the folders to check for specific files whenever I might need them into the future?

I should also format the Toshiba and use it only for misc. data copy-paste backups. And, also keep the Mac Photos archive library on it. Correct?

My main aim is simple. Have access to at some backups from my previous computers. I should be fine if I just have access to the backup folders (created using TM). I can then go into each folder and check and copy relevant files as needed over the coming decades or so.

Thanks!
 
Stop using time machine.
START using either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper.

My prediction:
Use either of the above, and the backup will complete.
You'll need to reformat the drive to APFS first (if it's not there already).

Both CCC and SD are FREE to download and use for 30 days.
Try either... or both... see which one you like better.
 
The main backup drive (Seagate) has 3 TM backups from 3 different Mac laptops. It also has other misc. data (pictures, Lightroom photos, pdf, Word files). This is the drive that is taking forever to backup via TM.
The Toshiba also has a TM backup from one previous Mac laptop.

If I understand correctly, the Seagate has your current Mac's backups, plus backups of two older Macs, and the Toshiba has backups of yet another older Mac. And, you want to keep all three old TM backups while backing up your current Mac. Is that right?

I ask because IMHO this is rather unusual, and it sounds like a lot of (useless?) old data being kept. Most people would have used Migration Assistant to move their data (documents, Photos, etc.) from the older machine over to the new Mac, and then backed up the new Mac, either to the same or another disk. There is no need (that I can see) for the older Mac's backup anymore.

Is this (below) correct for your current situation? (Unfortunately I don't know how they are partitioned.)

Seagate 1TB:
--------------
current Mac TM backup
old Mac "A" backup
old Mac "B" backup
misc files (pictures, Lightroom photos, pdf, Word files) <== I'm assuming these should be backed up!

Toshiba 1TB:
------------------
old Mac "C" backup
Mac Photo archive library <== I'm assuming this should be backed up!

My main aim is simple. Have access to at some backups from my previous computers. I should be fine if I just have access to the backup folders (created using TM). I can then go into each folder and check and copy relevant files as needed over the coming decades or so.
Do you need all the historical individual backups? For example, all the various versions through time there may be of each file? The volumes may be in HFS+ format, or APFS format, but in either case I don't think you'll be able to move or copy them and retain all the old versions. Certainly not if in APFS format, as one cannot copy the APFS snapshots in which the older versions are kept.

Moving on, I can get a new ext HDD and use that as the main backup for my current computer. For that I should assign the complete drive to TM, and use AFPS filing system.
Yes, I think that's the most straightforward approach.

So, how do I move the 2 older backups (data from my previous 2 laptops) from Seagate to the new drive? Just copy and paste them? And, go into the folders to check for specific files whenever I might need them into the future?
As I mentioned above I don't think you can move the older bacups, and I can't think of any reason that you should. If it were me I'd get rid of the old Macs' backups completely and reclaim the disk space. Unless the old backups have important data that's not on your current Mac, they have no real value. If you're not ready to do that, just leave them (and the misc files and Photos Library) where they are.

Then, configure TM so that it does not exclude these portions of your old drives in the new backups:
- misc files (pictures, Lightroom photos, pdf, Word files)
- Mac Photo archive library

This plan should be low-risk, because the data is staying where it is.

Perhaps you were unaware that TM can back up data on external drives? You need to go into TM Settings and hit the Options button (I think). Remove the external drives from the list of excluded files, and by default, that entire drive will be backed up. You can add exclusions for particular folders that you don't need in the TM backup. Don't try to back up the old Mac's backups, of course.

So now you have:

Seagate 1TB:
--------------
old Mac "A" backup
old Mac "B" backup
misc files (pictures, Lightroom photos, pdf, Word files) <== Included in NEW backup

Toshiba 1TB:
------------------
old Mac "C" backup
Mac Photo archive library <== Included in NEW backup

New Drive:
------------
TM backup of current Mac, incl. misc files and Photo archive.

When you're ready, you can delete the old Macs' backups and use that space for more data, or consolidate the misc files and Photo library on a single drive.

What I would NOT do is manually put data onto the New (backup) Drive -- it should be for TM backups only.

Hope this helps.
 
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