Time to accept that $550 is a "fair" price

[C. Robert]

I can get a pair of Bose, glue an aluminum can to them, put them in a bra, tape up the headphone jack, remove the leather and put a grocery store potato bag on the bridge, remove everything for the package, and still pay $350 less. Oh and they'd still weight less

 

[Mascots]

to some that slight difference is worth it. the integration for me alone is worth 200$ more.

I think people really underestimate the additional checkboxes that Apple managed to tick with these headphones which makes them attractive. Their outpacing of some competing brands in audio quality is just a piece of the overall picture but audio doesn’t make the complete picture for headphones. Device switching, build quality, fit, general appeal of design... these things help justify the price on any brand.

The primary thing that kept me from going XM4s initially was their flaky 2 device pairing and touch controls, so the jumping focus on Max features to hate-about (lightning -> 3.5, case, sans power button) is really overstated since the core product and its offerings are entirely stable and one of the best without going dramatically higher in price.

But the price is very high up there. I really love my pair, they are quite literally the best pair of headphones I have ever worn, but if those little things don’t matter to you, they won’t justify the price, and therefore aren’t worth it.

 

[LongWayHome]

your entire argument is faulty, you first claim is supported but nothing more than a guess... as of right now, you have no idea the amount that apple has actually produced so unless you work at apple or you know the actual production numbers you are doing nothing but guessing

you are comparing a pair of headphones to a at home speaker, two completely different consumer base... headphones have a very general appeal and is much broader than a home speaker, which is a very small and niche market segment

your last piece of "evidence" points to the amount on ebay, thats great, if you assume they made 1000 of them... or even 10000... but again, you have no idea how many were produced so without that 900 can be most or it can be .01% of the total allocation...

this is also not to say that your assumptions are wrong or anything like that but your claim is as good as the complete opposite claim that these are the best selling headphones in the history of man...

Facts are facts and I'm sorry but everything I've said is 100% correct. I always find it funny when people think that when Apple releases a new product and it sells out, Apple is surprised, and that its a massive hit. While most of their products are hits it has nothing to do with launches like this of a brand new product category. Apple knows exactly what they are doing in terms of supply chain. It isn't a guess, its fact. Apple plans these things out down to the most excruciating minute detail. That is also fact. People can choose to believe the other way that Apple releases devices and are "SURPRISED" by the demand, but its fantasy land. This release was small because they want to gauge demand and will then ramp up inventory based on that demand.

And to your other point: It doesn't matter what the Homepod is. It could be a freaking microwave, that's beside the point. It was a new product category for Apple that sold out. People were saying the same things in here back then. "Wow Apple is taking over the home speaker market." "They can't keep these things in stock!" "Homepod is a huge hit!" It was not and has struggled since it was launched, to which Apple has tried to increase sales by lowering the price. The same holds true for that device as it does for this. Apple purposes releases small quantities of items to guage demand, and then builds inventory based on what the percieved demand looks like after the launch. They aren't stupid and know that making a trillion devices of something before a launch that might not be super successful is a terrible business model. They don't want a ton of unclaimed inventory sitting around that will cost them millions of dollars if not sold.

Uh, the home speaker market is niche? You couldn't be any more incorrect in that statement. The home speaker market has a much much much much much much much broader appeal than the high priced over the ear headphone market that Apple just dove into. It doesn't get any more niche than $600 headphones in the consumer market space which again is why Apple released the small amount that they did.

I only point out eBay because it is something that always pops up with small launches like this and it does impact the small amount of devices that Apple releases in the first wave.

Again, you can say "You don't know what you are talking about." And that is totally fine. But I know exactly what I am talking about.

 

[LongWayHome]

I think people really underestimate the additional checkboxes that Apple managed to tick with these headphones which makes them attractive. Their outpacing of some competing brands in audio quality is just a piece of the overall picture but audio doesn’t make the complete picture for headphones. Device switching, build quality, fit, general appeal of design... these things help justify the price on any brand.

The primary thing that kept me from going XM4s initially was their flaky 2 device pairing and touch controls, so the jumping focus on Max features to hate-about (lightning -> 3.5, case, sans power button) is really overstated since the core product and its offerings are entirely stable and one of the best without going dramatically higher in price.

But the price is very high up there. I really love my pair, they are quite literally the best pair of headphones I have ever worn, but if those little things don’t matter to you, they won’t justify the price, and therefore aren’t worth it.

I have these and I don't really understand the device switching argument. With my Xm4's I can connect to two devices and just click on the device I want to connect to. If there is an additional device I simply sever the connection of one and click on the other one. With the Airpods Max I still have to click on the device I want to connect with each time I'm switching devices. What am I missing here?

 

[quagmire]

Here is my take: Only you can make the decision if the price point is fair. The argument of, " Well I can get a pretty decent pair cheaper!" is often flawed, but can lay true as well.

It's flawed because the benefits the one product may have over the cheaper pair may not be to value for you. Maybe you don't care for the materials used because the cheaper pair's build quality is still damn good. Maybe the ANC is still good enough for you and same with the sound quality. It can be true because the more expensive product is just for the brand name and the quality is worse or not that much different from that cheaper product.

So to bring it back to the Airpods Max..... So far the Airpods Max appear to be better than the competition. Better build quality, ANC, and audio quality. Now the levels it is better at isn't game changing, revolutionizing, etc. So it just comes down to if the small lead the Airpods Max has over the XM4 and Bose 700's is worth the $200 premium. Only you can make that decision. Just like if I want to buy a fully loaded Mazda CX-5 Signature or a decently optioned Volvo XC40 for around the same price. I get a lot more vehicle for the money in the Mazda, but the Volvo is more of a premium product. The decision comes to what I want out of the vehicle.

 

[Mascots]

I have these and I don't really understand the device switching argument. With my Xm4's I can connect to two devices and just click on the device I want to connect to. If there is an additional device I simply sever the connection of one and click on the other one. With the Airpods Max I still have to click on the device I want to connect with each time I'm switching devices. What am I missing here?

XM4s dual pair did not work reliably with my Macs and it is a common reported issue. Having to unpair and the pair across devices is not a pleasant experience when you do it multiple times a day, so it became the primary reason I wanted to update my existing set (which were some no name Chinese brand, but amazing). Not to mention just bugs with devices and moving them around, completely irritating.

I had a set of AirPods previously and nothing is more attractive than tapping twice to switch to whatever I am currently using. It cannot be beat.

 

[MecPro]

they are missing key factors in purchasing them. apple integration , apple quality. XM4's are trash for voice calls. build quality leaves alot to be desired too. i have both airpods max and xm4s and xm3's.

to some that slight difference is worth it. the integration for me alone is worth 200$ more.

But the APM at that price are also missing certain factors which people wouldn’t want to live with.

I only have NC-700 and the APM price doesn’t put me off, just the case, non-touch (especially with earcups that big) power management, not clear on connecting to more than 1 device that isn’t Apple and the nylon headband.

For me, the reviews definitely say the APM is better with some subjective elements. But none have really said the APM trounce the competition enough to consider &200 more

 

[Chompineer]

Whatever mental gymnastics you need to do to justify the cost buddy.

Apple sure is good at inception, lol.

These things fly off the shelves because people want to be seen in them to show off, like with many other Apple products. I guess at some point many of us grow up and realize just how silly that is.

 

[LongWayHome]

XM4s dual pair did not work reliably with my Macs and it is a common reported issue. Having to unpair and the pair across devices is not a pleasant experience when you do it multiple times a day, so it became the primary reason I wanted to update my existing set (which were some no name Chinese brand, but amazing). Not to mention just bugs with devices and moving them around, completely irritating.

I had a set of AirPods previously and nothing is more attractive than tapping twice to switch to whatever I am currently using. It cannot be beat.

Hmmm, I have zero issues pairing them with my Mac, iPhone, or iPad. I don't get the easily switch between devices. Its easy now.

 

[macnmac]

Facts are facts and I'm sorry but everything I've said is 100% correct. I always find it funny when people think that when Apple releases a new product and it sells out, Apple is surprised, and that its a massive hit. While most of their products are hits it has nothing to do with launches like this of a brand new product category. Apple knows exactly what they are doing in terms of supply chain. It isn't a guess, its fact. Apple plans these things out down to the most excruciating minute detail. That is also fact. People can choose to believe the other way that Apple releases devices and are "SURPRISED" by the demand, but its fantasy land. This release was small because they want to gauge demand and will then ramp up inventory based on that demand.

And to your other point: It doesn't matter what the Homepod is. It could be a freaking microwave, that's beside the point. It was a new product category for Apple that sold out. People were saying the same things in here back then. "Wow Apple is taking over the home speaker market." "They can't keep these things in stock!" "Homepod is a huge hit!" It was not and has struggled since it was launched, to which Apple has tried to increase sales by lowering the price. The same holds true for that device as it does for this. Apple purposes releases small quantities of items to guage demand, and then builds inventory based on what the percieved demand looks like after the launch. They aren't stupid and know that making a trillion devices of something before a launch that might not be super successful is a terrible business model. They don't want a ton of unclaimed inventory sitting around that will cost them millions of dollars if not sold.

Uh, the home speaker market is niche? You couldn't be any more incorrect in that statement. The home speaker market has a much much much much much much much broader appeal than the high priced over the ear headphone market that Apple just dove into. It doesn't get any more niche than $600 headphones in the consumer market space which again is why Apple released the small amount that they did.

I only point out eBay because it is something that always pops up with small launches like this and it does impact the small amount of devices that Apple releases in the first wave.

Again, you can say "You don't know what you are talking about." And that is totally fine. But I know exactly what I am talking about.

i didnt say you dont know what youre talking about, im saying you are assuming way too much... things you claim are facts are not, like you knowing apples strategy when releasing a certain product... you can speculate, yes but knowing is something different.

how does it not matter, you are comparing the two in terms of sales... why didnt you compare them to the iphone, mac, macbook, ipad, or anything else that they produce?

and yes, home speaker... not home speaker system... you compared it to yet another different category... so from your statement, you claim that those who own a google home, alexa system outnumber those who own headphones...

ebay does what it does and you cant draw too much from that anyway

and again, i never said you didnt know what you were talking about, but stating your claims as facts and them being actual facts are two completely different things...

 

[Mascots]

Hmmm, I have zero issues pairing them with my Mac, iPhone, or iPad. I don't get the easily switch between devices. Its easy now.

Your experience is obviously different than mine, which is great, but please don’t treat it as the universal perspective. As I said, I switch between multiple devices a day (3-4 on average) so pairing, unpairing, troubleshooting was not pleasant. It was the primary factor in my updating headphones at all.

Issues with XM4 and Macs dual pairing are pretty well noted by a number of people. I happen to be one of them.

 

[C. Robert]

Whatever mental gymnastics you need to do to justify the cost buddy.

Apple sure is good at inception, lol.

These things fly off the shelves because people want to be seen in them to show off, like with many other Apple products. I guess at some point many of us grow up and realize just how silly that is.

Id be extremely embarrassed walking around with this in the case or on my head. Id rather get a pair of Beoplays or other premium headphones that come with USB-c, lighter, better materials, nice presentation with all accessories that you need to use them.

 

[LongWayHome]

i didnt say you dont know what youre talking about, im saying you are assuming way too much... things you claim are facts are not, like you knowing apples strategy when releasing a certain product... you can speculate, yes but knowing is something different.

how does it not matter, you are comparing the two in terms of sales... why didnt you compare them to the iphone, mac, macbook, ipad, or anything else that they produce?

and yes, home speaker... not home speaker system... you compared it to yet another different category... so from your statement, you claim that those who own a google home, alexa system outnumber those who own headphones...

ebay does what it does and you cant draw too much from that anyway

and again, i never said you didnt know what you were talking about, but stating your claims as facts and them being actual facts are two completely different things...

I'm not speculating but you can think whatever you want. Also, the home speaker market is a billion times more popular than the ultra expensive over the ear headphone market. You can't say just the "headphones" market because that's lumping everything from $10 skull candy ear phones all the way to the Airpod Max's. Thats not how it works. Apple entered into the EXTREMELY niche luxury over the ear market and it is astronomically smaller than the home speaker market. That is also a fact.

 

[LongWayHome]

Your experience is obviously different than mine, which is great, but please don’t treat it as the universal perspective. As I said, I switch between multiple devices a day (3-4 on average) so pairing, unpairing, troubleshooting was not pleasant. It was the primary factor in my updating headphones at all.

Issues with XM4 and Macs dual pairing are pretty well noted by a number of people. I happen to be one of them.

I'm not claiming it is a universal perspective. But claiming that its some massive problem that Apple is solving is also not a fair perspective either. Every ANC headphone I've ever owned has been super easy to switch. To me this is more of people claiming that Apple solved a problem that didn't really exist, similar to how Apple "solved" the problem of people's phones slipping off wireless chargers with MagSafe.

 

[Mascots]

I'm not claiming it is a universal perspective. But claiming that its some massive problem that Apple is solving is also not a fair perspective either. Every ANC headphone I've ever owned has been super easy to switch. To me this is more of people claiming that Apple solved a problem that didn't really exist, similar to how Apple "solved" the problem of people's phones slipping off wireless chargers with MagSafe.

I never claimed “its some massive problem”? I claimed there are issues that I have experienced which formed my opinion and backed that up with fact through others’ examples. Need I remind you that you asked me why I felt the way I did and I answered. All on your own you felt the need to present your view for contrast and a “I don’t get it” (I didn’t ask; it’s okay to have a different experience and I expected as such given your remarks) instead of just accepting my perspective for face value.

Sorry for the original terseness (I edited down my message), but please stop putting words in my mouth just to have a tizzy. It’s actually quite rude to go to such great lengths to neutralize an opinion counter to your own. It’s an opinion and I totally respect yours.

 

[iBug2]

550$ is pretty cheap for a pair of headphones if they sound good. HD800S costs 1700$. And you buy an amp to drive it as well. I'm not saying APM will sound as good as amped HD800 but sound quality as everything gets into diminishing returns once you go up. HD800 does not sound 3 times better than APM and probably APM does not sound 200$ more than XM4. But everyone seems to agree they sound better than the Bose and Sony. Also B&W PX7 and Momentum 3. That's basically the entire competition in the consumer market. So it's going to be compared to B&O H95 and fail there, but that's a 800$ ANC headphone.

 

[MacModMachine]

I'm not claiming it is a universal perspective. But claiming that its some massive problem that Apple is solving is also not a fair perspective either. Every ANC headphone I've ever owned has been super easy to switch. To me this is more of people claiming that Apple solved a problem that didn't really exist, similar to how Apple "solved" the problem of people's phones slipping off wireless chargers with MagSafe.

they did solve a major problem. over the ear headphones apple does not currently have in their lineup. beats aside since their not the same game.

as happened with the airpods pro , features will be added down the road , sound quality constantly fine tuned. xm4's wont give you that....and forget about sony's warranty. apple i can walk in and out with a new set of headphones should i run into issues.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

Id be extremely embarrassed walking around with this in the case or on my head. Id rather get a pair of Beoplays or other premium headphones that come with USB-c, lighter, better materials, nice presentation with all accessories that you need to use them.

Seeing the top pic you used made me suddenly realise the Apple headphones look like ear defenders rather than headphones and I can’t un-see it lol.

I think it’s the shape and the smooth cup aesthetic for me.

 

[cycling_pete]

So it seems like most of the negative comments are just a version of history repeating itself:

"For $550 you can get audiophile quality headphones..." -- reminiscent of people saying you can get a phone/computer with better hardware (more ram, better screen) than the iphone/mb for way cheaper. We saw how well that worked out.

"They look ridiculous/wouldn't be caught wearing these..." -- exactly the same comments people had about the original AirPods. Still remember so many of my co-workers who now own a pair telling me that they looked silly.

"Would never pay $550 for a pair of headphones..." just like people would "never" pay $170 for a pair of wireless earphones when a wired pair came free with every iPhone, or how people would "never" pay $900 for a new phone.

 

[cycling_pete]

.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

So it seems like most of the negative comments are just a version of history repeating itself:

"For $550 you can get audiophile quality headphones..." -- reminiscent of people saying you can get a phone/computer with better hardware (more ram, better screen) than the iphone/mb for way cheaper. We saw how well that worked out.

"They look ridiculous/wouldn't be caught wearing these..." -- exactly the same comments people had about the original AirPods. Still remember so many of my co-workers who now own a pair telling me that they looked silly.

"Would never pay $550 for a pair of headphones..." just like people would "never" pay $170 for a pair of wireless earphone when a wired pair came free with every iPhone, or how people would "never" pay $900 for a new phone.

You know what they say about opinions.

Your thread is here inviting different opinions and from the very title. It’s certainly great to see not every opinion is fluffy and sugar coated. Like with any product there will be people who love them and those that won’t. That’s life.

 

[C. Robert]

Seeing the top pic you used made me suddenly realise the Apple headphones look like ear defenders rather than headphones and I can’t un-see it lol.

I think it’s the shape and the smooth cup aesthetic for me.

They look like safety ear protection.

 

[pugxiwawa]

It's all about what $550 means to YOU. Some people buy 70k Tesla and others are perfectly happy with 20k Toyota. Both get you from point A to B. Who cares what you want to do with your money. If you like it, buy it. If you don't, move on, but no need to go to every thread and tell people who enjoy their purchase what a waste of money or junk APX is. Live a little, why so serious? Enjoy your holidays.

 

[cbautis2]

An “audiophile” reviewer has this to say.

Apple AirPods Max Review: The Audiophile's Perspective – In-Ear Fidelity

An in-depth, audio-focused review of Apple's newest flagship headphone, the AirPods Max.

crinacle.com

Yeah, I know. $500 is pretty much chump change to the ballers of the headphone hobby. For some, $500 is only enough to pay for the amplifier that powers their $1,500 headphone.

I lol’ed.

They do exists though maybe ~0.0001% of the market. My portable audio solution alone costs $6100 USD as a whole. Then again people who buy expensive audio stuff mostly despise digital signal processing implemented on BT headphones as a way of reaching audio nirvana.

 

[cardfan]

The 12-14 week delay is simply longer right now due to the fact that the Pandemic has put more supply constraints on Apple's manufacturers. While the timeline is longer due to that, everything else by Apple here is planned well ahead of the launch.

Secondly, eBay hefty markups happen with every single new launch of an Apple product. This is some people's job to buy out as many of these devices they can because they know Apple's game here and know that people will pay a big markup to get these items early.

As far as interest, I agree that all you need to do is in fact look at MKHD's AirPods Max videos. His initial take on them got 10 Million views. Why? Because Apple out of nowhere launched very expensive wireless headphones. But if you then look at his actual review of the headphones a few days later it only got 4Million hits, which is the same amount of hits his homepod review got. So once the initial interest was gone, views stabilized and leveled off. Point being that MacRumors and YouTube are a meaningless subset of the population that in no way is any type of predictor of sales.

Apple knows what they are doing and they plan things down to the tiniest of minute details with every product launch.

This is spot on. Maybe people don’t remember first AirPods but they sold out for weeks in a past December. I remember because I resold at least 10 pairs of them. Only resold 5 of these. Look at all the retailers discounting AirPods. Best Buy discounts HomePod to 199. Apple does this intentionally and judging by the “gotta have it” mentality, it works.

Sometime next year you’ll see retailers discounting maxes to 399 or so. No apple product is worth it’s msrp. And can’t think of one I paid this price for. Even the 6 AirPods maxes I bought I used veteran discount on for 10% off. Easy 1500 profit and still chose to return the one I opened.

After a two-month delay, Apple's new wireless headphones, the AirPods, are available. Uncharacteristic delay. Short supply. Go revisit December 2016.

From macrumors in 2016: AirPods became available for purchase on Apple's website on December 13, and customers who ordered quickly began receiving their shipments as early as December 19. Orders quickly became backlogged, however, and Apple's shipping estimate slipped to four weeks in less than two hours, and to six weeks by the following day.

For customers that ordered within the past nine days, the six-week wait potentially meant waiting until late January or early February to get the all-new wireless earphones.

Sound familiar?