MP 1,1-5,1 Time to move back to Not-A-Tower?

[cosmichobo]

G'day,

Part A - aka Pointy

Would an M1 Mac Mini (using my existing 2 x 23" Cinema Displays via HDMI and USB-C adapters), with a (2nd hand) NAS enclosure containing my current HDDs plus Pioneer BluRay, run rings around my 2010 Quad 2.8GHz MacPro 5,1 with stock video card?

Primary use is media server (Plex) and casual video editing, plus light gaming, web, etc etc.

With the RRP of Apple products going higher and higher, I can't see myself being able to afford anything "tower-like" from Apple any time soon. If the Mini tower does emerge as (again) predicted, I can't see it being less than $5k AUD - way beyond my limit.

I expect I could pick up the M1 Mac Mini for $999 AUD if I haggle, which leaves some wiggle room to find a 2nd hand NAS, and video adapters for my ACDs.

My alternative would be a higher spec 5,1. The top end 5,1's are still fetching over $2k, so I'd only be looking at a 6-core. The trashcan Pro still fetches well over $2k second hand here.

It's not a matter of "saving more money" til I can afford something better - it's a matter of what I'm willing to commit toward a "new" computer - which is about $1500.

Part B - aka Rambly

As soon as I saw them back in the early 90's I wanted to own a Mac tower. No real "reason" - they just looked cool, and were so powerful; made a nerd giddy!

My first Mac however was a base model Classic (2nd hand @ $2,000 from dad's work - Thank You Dad!), but in 1997 I made my dream a reality with a 4-year-old Quadra 840av, (no doubt abandoned in favour of PPC) for just $800. Sadly just a month later it died from lightning strike, dammit! For those brief few weeks, I was in heaven... capturing "full frame" video (still have the files!) and with a 1,000MB HDD - more space than I could imagine. I still have the Quadra's front bezel all these years later in my tech cupboard.

After more than a decade using first a TAM ($4,400 AUD after DHL and import taxes from California to Australia -- holy ****! But - WOOT! also still in my tech cupboard, in box with everything original), and then an eMac (BTO at $1,800 new), in 2011 I picked up a Dual 1.8GHz G5 tower from a pawn broker for just $99 (again, no doubt abandoned following the change to Intel years earlier). But for that price something had to be wrong - one dead CPU - so it was no faster than the eMac it replaced After trying to swap the faulty CPU unsuccessfully, for another $120 I sourced a "bare" G5, and swapped everything over to create a fully working machine.

In order to join the Mac-Intel world, in about 2014 I devolved to an early 2009 iMac ($700), but then returned to the higher ground with my current machine - a 2010 Mac Pro 5,1 Quad Core 2.8GHz with stock video card and 8GB of RAM, picked up for $760 in 2017. I've stuck in a 500GB SSD (plus numerous standard HDDs), and the BluRay. Was planning on getting a PCIe sled for the SSD... but - although I've not had any issues with the machine to date, I'm concerned about its future...

I've been looking around at what my next machine could be. Knowing the current Mac Pro is about $9k beyond my budget, and even the trashcans not dropping too far in price, I was thinking that would mean a maxed out 5,1 - but - that means spending $2k on a machine that is a decade old. I know the above list is mostly 2nd hand Macs, but none of them were that old.

As such, my mind got to wondering about these new fancy M1 machines, and I confirmed that I could keep my 2 x 23" ACDs... but would need a NAS for my storage, plus I need to keep an optical drive.

"NAS" is a bit of a dirty word to me, after losing data on a WD MyCloud years ago. I'm not keen on having data on a non-Mac formatted drive any more... but clearly need a better understanding of how they work/etc. I have seen online that there are NASes with optical bays, so hoping that will be an option for me, in my price range - if that's the way I go.

I'm not in a huge rush - as I said, my 5,1 has not shown any real issues, and I'm currently saving for a house, so not planning on taking any action til very late 2021, or early 2022... but hey - it's good to be informed... And I know there'll be lots of varying advice from the good folk on MacRumors for me to research...

Is there an option I've missed? Who trusts their 5,1's to last another - 5 years?

cheers and thanks for those who got to the end.

cosmic

 

[krakman]

My alternative would be a higher spec 5,1. The top end 5,1's are still fetching over $2k, so I'd only be looking at a 6-core. The trashcan Pro still fetches well over $2k second hand here.

why don't you just fit a 6 core xeon processor into your current machine? you can get a 3.33 6 core Xeon for about 50 dollars.

 

[cosmichobo]

Quick ebay search, and a 3.33GHz Xeon 6 core CPU only seems to sell for around $200..?

Oh - only if you use the word "Mac"... remove "Mac" and the prices are $70AUD out of China...

 

[DPUser]

You'll like the performance increase... you can use either a W3680 or X5680 in your single-CPU Mac Pro.

BX80614X5680 INTEL XEON X5680 6 CORE 3.33GHz 12M 6.4GT/s 130W PROCESSOR | eBay

PART NUMBER BX80614X5680. PROCESSOR NUMBER X5680. INCLUDE WITH PROCESSOR. INSTRUCTON SET 64-BIT. WEIGHT 1LBS.

www.ebay.com

$40 USD, form the US, not China.

 

[cosmichobo]

2 addendums...

1 - Seems that NAS with optical bays are rare, and old... LG did a 2 bay + optical in about 2013... otherwise I can't find much else, so if I was go to with not-a-tower, I'll need a good external case for the BluRay drive...

and

2 - I forgot just how low the benchmarks on my base 5,1 were (!). The above suggestions for a 6-core 3.33Ghz would certainly improve performance... though I'm still thinking overall if I am to "upgrade" within the 5,1 world, I'd want to go for "the best", so would need a dual core machine. (I shouldn't have jumped so fast when I bought this machine - thought I'd be able to use it as a dual...)

---
@ DPUser - as a former film school student... your avatar reminds me of Un Chien Andalou...

 

[abbeybound]

My first Mac however was a base model Classic (2nd hand @ $2,000 from dad's work - Thank You Dad!),

Can't help with the main question but curious about this.. The base Classic was $999 brand new in 1990. First Mac under a grand in fact. I know AUD is worth a bit less than USD, but still seems like you got fleeced back in the day ?

 

[cosmichobo]

Can't help with the main question but curious about this.. The base Classic was $999 brand new in 1990. First Mac under a grand in fact. I know AUD is worth a bit less than USD, but still seems like you got fleeced back in the day ?

I should clarify that for $2k AUD as well as the Mac Classic 2MB RAM/40MB HDD, my dad also got an ImageWriter II printer. And, no, he wasn't fleeced - at all. Before that purchase was made, I went to the only Apple dealer in my town, and was quoted something like $2,500 AUD for a 2nd hand Mac Plus, with 20MB external HDD, and ImageWriter I printer.

Here in Australia we have been complaining of what we call "Apple Tax" for decades - a big difference between Apple's USD RRP, the Exchange Rate, and any applicable government taxes.

For example - I'm not sure what the Classic's RRP was, but I do know that the LCIII retailed for $2,995 AUD - whereas according to Everymac.com, the USD price was $1,350 (which I'm assuming was excluding Sales Tax). In 1993 the USD / AUD exchange rate was about US$1 / AU$1.44 - so, the direct conversion would be $1,944 AUD. Back then, Australia had various taxes, but I believe the Sales Tax for a computer would have been 20% - 25%, but let's assume 25% - takes the price up to $2,430 AUD. So - what about the other $565?

The 2019 Mac Pro has an RRP of USD $5,999. The AUD price? $9,999. Current ex rate is USD$1 / AUD$1.3, so converts to $7,799. Add current tax rate of 10% GST = $8,579. So - that's an extra $1,420 on top...?

Yes, they probably have some kind of "margin" on the exchange rate, to account for possible fluctuations... and yes, less units would ship to Australia than the US making freight more expensive... but believe me - it's a sore point! :}

 

[cosmichobo]

In topic - a 12 core 3.33 with good vid card n lots o RAM just sold on eBay for only $1k... so - maybe it’s not as bad as I was thinking in terms of getting a top end 5,1.

 

[rorydaredking]

In topic - a 12 core 3.33 with good vid card n lots o RAM just sold on eBay for only $1k... so - maybe it’s not as bad as I was thinking in terms of getting a top end 5,1.

Try Facebook marketplace, don’t know what it’s like in Aus but in the Uk if you keep an eye out, people who don’t know what they are selling get rid of good spec machines very cheap once in a while. I think they must see 2010 on the label or when they search for it on google and think it’s junk.

 

[cosmichobo]

Try Facebook marketplace, don’t know what it’s like in Aus but in the Uk if you keep an eye out, people who don’t know what they are selling get rid of good spec machines very cheap once in a while. I think they must see 2010 on the label or when they search for it on google and think it’s junk.

Yeah - I've noticed that eBay has really very much ceased being a "garage sale" type platform to more of a "professional" (or at least - amateur-fessional) site these days. And I'm sure that people then get onto eBay, and see items for sale at high prices, and believe that's the "going rate" - so then list their own items at those prices - instead of looking at the "completed sales", and realising that most people aren't willing to pay the prices that are being asked...

I don't "Facebook" myself, but my wife does, and she points out any Mac stuff that comes up on the local sale pages.

 

[m1maverick]

I think you should give some serious consideration to the M1 Mini. I don't have a dual processor 5,1 but the M1 Mini outperforms, at least on Cinebench, my six core 3.46GHz 5,1. I love my 5,1 but it would be difficult to justify spending more on a 10 year old computer unless I were looking at a higher end configuration (dual processor with higher end GPU) and / or internal expansion. The new M1 is really something to consider given your workload.

 

[eicca]

The M1s have made it much harder to justify dropping big bucks on a 5,1 now. If you're just looking for a day-to-day machine with some decent capability when needed, your best bet may be to find a cheaper one with lower-clocked quad cores like the E5620s and drop in the X5677 chips with 1333mhz RAM. If you're after pro-level power the X5677s aren't the top option, but they are certainly more affordable at around ~$35 for both chips as opposed to $150-$200 for the X5680 or X5690 pair.

As a mostly day-to-day user I opted for the X5677s since they give you the same upgrade in casual task speed as the X5680 or -90. For my usage case I'm certainly glad I didn't shell out for the X5680s or -90s. I don't need the multi-core performance and probably would have been mad at how much faster my computer wasn't in everyday use,

If you do need all that multi-core power, then you'll have to decide for yourself where to spend the dough. A dual-X5680 or -90 5,1 is still an extremely powerful machine in multi-core situations.

My next computer will very likely be the M1 MacBook Air. Laptop mostly, and desktop when needed.

 

[DFP1989]

Leave the 5,1 behind and get an M1.

If you want a base M1 Mac mini, lots of retailers (OW, JB, etc.) frequently have 10% off sales bringing it under $1000.

Something that often gets overlooked is power consumption. The M1 will use a fraction of the power that your 5,1 is using.

 

[DFP1989]

A dual-X5680 or -90 5,1 is still an extremely powerful machine in multi-core situations.

I think “extremely“ is stretching.

 

[goMac]

why don't you just fit a 6 core xeon processor into your current machine? you can get a 3.33 6 core Xeon for about 50 dollars.

I have both a variety of Mac hardware, and a 3.46 ghz Mac Pro. That's the aftermarket CPU obviously.

I know the faster 6 core CPUs are really popular among 5,1 owners. And again, I have one. But they really aren't all the fast compared to anything except the stock CPU. Any modern machine would crush that CPU in performance. Doubly so for an M1.

With all the operating system limitations, it's just throwing more money at bad.

A six core CPU won't get you where you want to be. I know cause I have one. I'm literally planning on selling it for a few hundred (not here to forum members.) I can't imagine paying $1000 for one of these. That seems like a total rip off.

And by late 2021 or 2022 a hex 5,1 is going to be much worse. The M2's will be out by then.

Get an M1. It runs all the latest software without any hacking. It's supported. It has a warranty. It can run all the latest third party software. It supports all the latest features. It has basics the 5,1 doesn't even have like freakin USB-C and Thunderbolt. The 5,1 is a museum piece at this point, and not much more.

 

[cosmichobo]

Thank-you @DFP1989 and @goMac - I appreciate your comments. The M1 is probably in my future...

As well capturing DVDs/BluRays, I also want to maintain access to my VCR for older stuff. My current setup is:

VCR --> Handcam with digi passthru --> GTech HDD / FW400/800 hub --> Mac Pro FW800

Checking online, I see Apple makes a Firewire 800 to Thunderbolt adapter, so I wont lose that function. Good!

 

[mattspace]

The 2019 Mac Pro has an RRP of USD $5,999. The AUD price? $9,999. Current ex rate is USD$1 / AUD$1.3, so converts to $7,799. Add current tax rate of 10% GST = $8,579. So - that's an extra $1,420 on top...?

A big chunk of this is probably because the AU$10k Mac Pro effectively has a ~5-6 year* statutory warranty in Australia, on the basis of how expensive it is, and how long it would be reasonable to expect a piece of capital plant (cause we're well outside consumer electronics by that point) to last.

*Given the .au statutory warranty for Macbook Pros runs around 4 years.

 

[cosmichobo]

A big chunk of this is probably because the AU$10k Mac Pro effectively has a ~5-6 year* statutory warranty in Australia, on the basis of how expensive it is, and how long it would be reasonable to expect a piece of capital plant (cause we're well outside consumer electronics by that point) to last.

*Given the .au statutory warranty for Macbook Pros runs around 4 years.

I don't believe it particularly looks as though Apple increased other product pricing (above and beyond their already high prices), so not sure if they would have factored in any possible costs associated with Australia's consumer protection laws.

 

[mattspace]

I don't believe it particularly looks as though Apple increased other product pricing (above and beyond their already high prices), so not sure if they would have factored in any possible costs associated with Australia's consumer protection laws.

yeah but parts for the Mac Pro are all expensive, heavy and low-volume.

That's the general rule for Apple - the more expensive something is, the larger the delta between real US and AU pricing.