Time to stick a fork in 2017 iMac? Drive failure?

[drrich2]

My trusty old 2017 27" 5K-retina iMac with 32 gig RAM and 3 terabyte Fusion Drive recent started getting error messages from an old, some versions out-of-date TechTool Pro program (that I thought I'd disabled way back). This:

TechTool Protection Alert!
APPLE HDD ST3000DM001 - ZA50CW34 is exceeding SMART warning levels.
Select the SMART Check feature inside the TechTool Protection system preference or consider running the SMART Check using TechTool Pro for additional information.

A little Googling suggested that is not good, but old version, maybe not a real problem. But the iMac started randomly freezing up. Bluetooth mouse would freeze, a wireless receiver-based mouse worked better but sometimes froze, and this got worse quickly. I ran Disk Utility - First Aid. Got this:

Verifying volume object map space.
The volume /dev/rdisk2s6 appears to be OK.
Verifying allocated space.
Performing deferred repairs.
The container /dev/disk0s2 could not be verified completely.
Storage system check exit code is 8.
Storage system verify or repair failed. : (-69716)

I recently backed up to Carbon Copy Cloner, but decided to see what it would say.
Carbon Copy Cloner
macOS is reporting read or write error on “Macintosh HD”

These errors indicated that this is a problem with this disk, such as media failure, a mechanical failure, an effort in the disk’s firmware, or a problem communicating with the disk. The severity of the problem is unknown, you can get more detail on the errors by clicking on the affected volume in CCC’s sidebar. Read/wright error statistics will be reset when you restart your computer.

With CCC I saw a sidebar with Tasks and Volumes, chose Volumes, Macintosh HD - Data 2.12 TB PCI-Express Volume, and it said:
IO Errors: R:115 W:-

But Macintosh HD 3.12 TB PCI-Express Volume showed nothing in the same space, and neither did my backup external hard drive volume WD Element 4 TB USB Volume.

So I tried to tell my iMac to use my USB-attached 4-TB Western Digital drive's Carbon Copy-made backup as the startup disk. Here's what happened then:

Shut down Mac and held down Option key on restart, chose the external USB drive as my startup, the progress bar moved for awhile, then I got a circle with a bar across (like the Ghostbusters’ symbol minus the ghost) and this below it:

Support.apple.com/mac/startup

And it was frozen. Per Apple’s site that’s a prohibitory symbol.

I'm typing on my 2017 12" MacBook now. I'm guessing this old iMac is ready to bite the dust and paying to upgrade to the latest version of TechTool Pro is highly unlikely to fix it. But they say you don't know what you don't know, and many of you know a great deal more about Macs than I do, so I'm here for a 2nd opinion and suggestions.

Thanks in advance.

 

[MRxROBOT]

I would try a fresh install on a different USB drive. If that works you can either backup the original via Time Machine and restore or start moving things back manually.

 

[drrich2]

I would try a fresh install on a different USB drive. If that works you can either backup the original via Time Machine and restore or start moving things back manually.

I don't have a different large capacity USB drive; I could buy one, but that's be a hundred bucks or so (roughly) I could put toward a new desktop Mac if needed.

Years ago I used Time Machine, and the one time I needed to retrieve a file, I found it a confusing mess. Many people like it, and I get the idea that there are multiple copies of each file by date, but somehow it was a mess for me. I like Carbon Copy Cloner because I can more easily grasp what's involved in a copy of my iMac's hard drive.

I don't have any old system disks, etc... I'm guessing one can do a fresh install from an Apple webpage? Before going with that, I'd like to clarify the goal.

If the goal of all this is simply to create a backup so I don't lose files, I already have a Carbon Copy Cloner backup from 2 days ago, and I use cloud services for files that change often, so I don't have to retrieve anything.

On the other hand, if the goal is to erase my iMac's Fusion Drive and overwrite it with a copy, I may be able to tell Carbon Copy Cloner to reverse the backup order between my drives. It might balk at doing that to overwrite the startup disk, and the iMac didn't let me change startup disk to the Western Digital USB drive.

I appreciate the help! Just trying to understand the goal. Are you thinking there's a decent chance copying anew the data to the iMac's hard drive will fix corruption? Or is the goal to create a backup before losing any files?

P.S.: This situation does remind me how annoying it is when an iMac dies and that beautiful monitor becomes useless. 27", 5K, but no target display mode so...here we are!

 

[drrich2]

Quick follow up - I realized after-the-fact you were likely talking about using a USB thumb drive, and I have some of those. My questions still remain, as above, but at least I now understand I wouldn't need to buy a new external drive. Sorry about the mix up.

 

[MRxROBOT]

I think CCC is failing somewhere with the boot files. My suggestion was to use a different drive to do a fresh install of macOS and then manually transfer you files over from the CCC Backup. If you don't want to purchase another drive, you could erase the drive you have and do a fresh install of macOS there but it's not something I would personally do as your iMac Drive is failing . It would be unfortunate if you wiped the backup to do a fresh install and then weren't able to retrieve your files from your iMac's internal drive. You can find the OS installation files on the App Store and a quick google should direct you to numerous guides on how to get the OS installation onto a USB. Unfortunately it's not as simple as just dragging the file over, but it's not too difficult either.

 

[drrich2]

your iMac Drive is failing .

That’s what I thought; thanks for the confirmation. As you said, I found a guide to put the Ventura installer on a big usb thumb drive. I may install it on the iMac anyway without erasing first; does that overwrite the MacOS files without deleting the rest? I don’t plan to change things on CCC, as I need it if I get a new Mac.

 

[Fishrrman]

I'm thinking that the Seagate 3tb HDD (part of the fusion drive) is the problem.
The Seagate 3tb drives have a higher-than-usual record of failure in iMacs. Apple even had a recall/replacement program for them back around 2014 (of course, doesn't apply to yours).

My recommendation:
Get a USB3.1 gen2 SSD such as this:

https://www.amazon.com/samsung-portable-photographers-mu-pe1t0s-am/dp/B09VLK9W3S?th=1

(very good price right now)

NOTE: DON'T buy just a USB3 SSD. You want "USB3.1, gen2" because it's TWICE as fast when used with the iMac's USBc port, which supports 10gb throughput.

Set this us to become your EXTERNAL boot drive.
You can either install a "completely fresh" copy of the OS onto it,
or
Use either CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper to clone the contents of the internal to the external (external must be large enough to hold contents of internal, of course).

An external USB3.1 gen2 SSD should give you read speeds around 830-890MBps (or maybe even a little faster). This will keep the iMac operating well for a good while longer.

Once the external SSD is up-and-running, you might consider "breaking apart" the internal fusion drive, and then erasing the HDD portion -- and then just "leave it be".

If the internal SSD portion is still good, keep using that, perhaps set it up as an "emergency boot drive". It's only 128gb, so it CAN function as a boot drive although you can't keep too much stuff on it.

 

[MRxROBOT]

That’s what I thought; thanks for the confirmation. As you said, I found a guide to put the Ventura installer on a big usb thumb drive. I may install it on the iMac anyway without erasing first; does that overwrite the MacOS files without deleting the rest? I don’t plan to change things on CCC, as I need it if I get a new Mac.

If you do a fresh install on the internal Fusion Drive, you will lose all data on those drives.There is another option however as Fishrrman stated, you could split the Fusion Drive and install macOS on on just the 128GB SSD Portion and keep all your files on the external drive. This will leave you without a backup drive as the exernal drive will now be your only good copy of your files. I know you don't want o spend any extra money, but give it a second thought as only having one good copy of your data is a ticking time bomb.

My recommendation:
Get a USB3.1 gen2 SSD such as this:

My thoughts exactly but drrich2 stated he doesn't want to spend money on another drive as they'd rather just stick a fork in it and put any money towards a new Mac, even a $100.

 

[saudor]

the ST3000DM001 was the famous seagate drive that had insane amounts of failure. You should not use this disk anymore and move any files off of it asap.

 

[drrich2]

My recommendation:
Get a USB3.1 gen2 SSD such as this:
https://www.amazon.com/samsung-portable-photographers-mu-pe1t0s-am/dp/B09VLK9W3S?th=1 (very good price right now)

Thanks; that is a surprisingly good price on a reputable brand name rugged external SSD (I priced the 4 TB version). As much as I don't want to cough up the money, with a 6 year old Intel iMac that's been pretty good but had enough delays here and there to be a little irritating, concern the external SSD via USB-C approach might worsen that (been awhile, but I think Black Magic gave the Fusion Drive better numbers), Apple's transition to the M-series processors and some software requiring them (and my iMac wasn't supported by Apple's latest OS), I decided to opt for a new Mac. Painful, but I spend a lot of time on mine so it's something I use.

Thanks to all of you for your help with knowing my options and making a much better informed decision. Happy Thanksgiving!

 

[macguru9999]

My trusty old 2017 27" 5K-retina iMac with 32 gig RAM and 3 terabyte Fusion Drive recent started getting error messages from an old, some versions out-of-date TechTool Pro program (that I thought I'd disabled way back). This:

TechTool Protection Alert!
APPLE HDD ST3000DM001 - ZA50CW34 is exceeding SMART warning levels.
Select the SMART Check feature inside the TechTool Protection system preference or consider running the SMART Check using TechTool Pro for additional information.

A little Googling suggested that is not good, but old version, maybe not a real problem. But the iMac started randomly freezing up. Bluetooth mouse would freeze, a wireless receiver-based mouse worked better but sometimes froze, and this got worse quickly. I ran Disk Utility - First Aid. Got this:

Verifying volume object map space.
The volume /dev/rdisk2s6 appears to be OK.
Verifying allocated space.
Performing deferred repairs.
The container /dev/disk0s2 could not be verified completely.
Storage system check exit code is 8.
Storage system verify or repair failed. : (-69716)

I recently backed up to Carbon Copy Cloner, but decided to see what it would say.
Carbon Copy Cloner
macOS is reporting read or write error on “Macintosh HD”

These errors indicated that this is a problem with this disk, such as media failure, a mechanical failure, an effort in the disk’s firmware, or a problem communicating with the disk. The severity of the problem is unknown, you can get more detail on the errors by clicking on the affected volume in CCC’s sidebar. Read/wright error statistics will be reset when you restart your computer.

With CCC I saw a sidebar with Tasks and Volumes, chose Volumes, Macintosh HD - Data 2.12 TB PCI-Express Volume, and it said:
IO Errors: R:115 W:-

But Macintosh HD 3.12 TB PCI-Express Volume showed nothing in the same space, and neither did my backup external hard drive volume WD Element 4 TB USB Volume.

So I tried to tell my iMac to use my USB-attached 4-TB Western Digital drive's Carbon Copy-made backup as the startup disk. Here's what happened then:

Shut down Mac and held down Option key on restart, chose the external USB drive as my startup, the progress bar moved for awhile, then I got a circle with a bar across (like the Ghostbusters’ symbol minus the ghost) and this below it:

Support.apple.com/mac/startup

And it was frozen. Per Apple’s site that’s a prohibitory symbol.

I'm typing on my 2017 12" MacBook now. I'm guessing this old iMac is ready to bite the dust and paying to upgrade to the latest version of TechTool Pro is highly unlikely to fix it. But they say you don't know what you don't know, and many of you know a great deal more about Macs than I do, so I'm here for a 2nd opinion and suggestions.

Thanks in advance.

just recover the data and put in a 2 or 4tb crucial sata ssd, ignoring the internal ssd, removing the internal spinner

 

[macryan1]

This may or may not be useful to you. I had a 2TB Fusion drive failure in my 2017 iMac. I had a 2TB SSD installed for $399. It's quite snappy now.

I restored my Time Machine data to a 24 M3 iMac and all came forward just fine. 27 iMac going to a family member.

My 2¢

 

[ignatius345]

This may or may not be useful to you. I had a 2TB Fusion drive failure in my 2017 iMac. I had a 2TB SSD installed for $399. It's quite snappy now.

I restored my Time Machine data to a 24 M3 iMac and all came forward just fine. 27 iMac going to a family member.

My 2¢

Same with my old 2014 iMac 5K. Any Fusion Drives still in service at this point are probably due to die soon. I'd either crack it open and put an SATA SSD in place of that HDD, or run off an external.

Honestly any Apple Silicon Mac is going to feel like a massive upgrade. Here at work, I'm running an M1 Mini (M1, not Pro or Max) with 16 GB of RAM and it crushes my workload easily.

Here's my dock at this moment. Note Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, Word, PowerPoint... it's all running very smoothly even as I multitask quite aggressively trying to get some files edited quickly (which I should actually be doing instead of posting here LOL).

 

[macguru9999]

Same with my old 2014 iMac 5K. Any Fusion Drives still in service at this point are probably due to die soon. I'd either crack it open and put an SATA SSD in place of that HDD, or run off an external.

Honestly any Apple Silicon Mac is going to feel like a massive upgrade. Here at work, I'm running an M1 Mini (M1, not Pro or Max) with 16 GB of RAM and it crushes my workload easily.

Here's my dock at this moment. Note Illustrator, Photoshop, InDesign, Word, PowerPoint... it's all running very smoothly even as I multitask quite aggressively trying to get some files edited quickly (which I should actually be doing instead of posting here LOL).

View attachment 2315457

fusion sux, replacing with a sata ssd is the way to go. If you have a 2017/19 with fusion you can also put a big nvme on the mobo ... not sure if its worth the trouble, its not from my point of view as a repairer/consultant, maybe if its your own machine and you have the skills.

 

[ignatius345]

fusion sux, replacing with a sata ssd is the way to go.

Fusion was a pretty helpful trick back when SSDs were crazy expensive, but their time has truly passed.

 

[drrich2]

My recommendation:
Get a USB3.1 gen2 SSD such as this:
https://www.amazon.com/samsung-portable-photographers-mu-pe1t0s-am/dp/B09VLK9W3S?th=1 (very good price right now)

Fishrrman:

Just wanted to follow up with a big thanks for helping me out with this suggestion. I got it for about $200, it's a cute little thing, bus powered so no power adapter 'brick' to fool with, and this evening using it I find the iMac not only almost as good (like I'd hoped), but noticeably and significantly snappier in performance! I haven't run any speed tests, but opening app.s and files is obviously faster (e.g.: using the Blurb Bookwright ap. to open a large photo book file).

For the benefit of anyone in a similar situation, here's the sequence of events:

1.) The Carbon Copy Cloner backup wasn't bootable (apparently there's a legacy option in a menu somewhere that can do that, but it's not routine). On the other hand, the CCC backup is compatible as a target for Apple's Migration Assistant app., as though I were getting info. off an old computer.

2.) I hooked the SSD drive (USB C connection) to my old 2017 12" MacBook, booted into Recovery Mode, told it install the system software OS onto the SSD drive, then it had me enter my Apple ID, choose a language, etc..., like setting up a new computer.

3.) I then ejected the SSD, connected it to the iMac, restarted holding down Option (IIRC) to get into Recovery Mode, chose the SSD as start disc, and used Migration Assistance to pull data from the CCC backup on my old Western Digital USB (3?) external hard drive. I probably had close to, maybe a bit under, 1.5 terabytes to move and it might've taken 6 hours (despite initially giving me estimates of 33 hours+). The iMac rebooted automatically when it was done.

4.) Then I went under System Preferences and changed my start up disc to the SSD.

Since I last posted, the performance of the iMac using the built-in Fusion Drive had deteriorated from annoying to pretty bad to almost unusable. Before taking the route above, I tried having Carbon Copy Cloner make me a backup from the Fusion Drive onto the SSD, but that took many hours, often slowed to a flatlined progress bar for extended periods, and gave me a report with a huge list of what I believe were damaged files that couldn't be read or some such.

I would've thought this external SSD setup would've given slower performance than the internal Fusion Drive when it was working, but to my amateur eye, it's not 'as good'...it's better.

Thanks again!