Tired of bootlegs...

Sutekidane

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 26, 2005
936
1
Is anyone else tired of people trying to tack on bootleg software to their sales on macs in ebay and the marketplace forum? I know I am! I think it's really stupid, pointless, and blatantly illegal. I mean, people thinking they can get more for their machine by saying stuff like "installed on the HD," "CDs not included," and "I'll leave the following installed" need a reality check. Anyone else agree?
 

mpopkin

macrumors 6502
Nov 14, 2003
298
3
Chapel Hill, NC
i agree and disagree at the same time..hard to believe that is possible to agree and disagree, but if you believe the software is illegit than point it out, it is your job to realize the seller is trying to pull one over on you, there are a lot of people who do this with both PC and MAC, i wont say i have never done it, but i dont condone it either, it is wrong and illicit, i do not actually hike the price for any software that i include, only selling the product based on the value of the included Hardware(cd's if i have them, which i do) i have sold an imac, ibm thinkpad x40 and several other machines with legal(and illegal) copies of software on them, i wont deny that, but i will say that i have never hiked the price because of a copy of final cut or photoshop that i may have used a bit on my machine, (which i have not actually done) i have legit copies of FCP 4 and CS and am proud that i do, because they are great applications. i think that a buyer's best response is to say what the .... and tell the seller off because that is just wrong, you cant sell a machine that costs x amount of dollars for x+x amount because of illegal software that you didnt pay for.
my two cents
 

Mechcozmo

macrumors 603
Jul 17, 2004
5,215
2
Doctor Q said:
Please use the Report Bad Post feature if you spot such offers in the Marketplace forum.
The little red triangle underneath a user name... took me a while to figure that one out. :rolleyes:
 

stridey

macrumors 65816
Jan 21, 2005
1,136
0
Massachusetts, Connecticut
mpopkin said:
i agree and disagree at the same time..hard to believe that is possible to agree and disagree, but if you believe the software is illegit than point it out, it is your job to realize the seller is trying to pull one over on you, there are a lot of people who do this with both PC and MAC, i wont say i have never done it, but i dont condone it either, it is wrong and illicit, i do not actually hike the price for any software that i include, only selling the product based on the value of the included Hardware(cd's if i have them, which i do) i have sold an imac, ibm thinkpad x40 and several other machines with legal(and illegal) copies of software on them, i wont deny that, but i will say that i have never hiked the price because of a copy of final cut or photoshop that i may have used a bit on my machine, (which i have not actually done) i have legit copies of FCP 4 and CS and am proud that i do, because they are great applications. i think that a buyer's best response is to say what the .... and tell the seller off because that is just wrong, you cant sell a machine that costs x amount of dollars for x+x amount because of illegal software that you didnt pay for.
my two cents
What you have to understand though, is that even though you don't hike the price, you're selling stolen goods. If I try to sell you a car, which I bought and paid for legally, and then throw in the sweet stereo I stole and installed, it sweetens the deal for you. Maybe that awesome stereo is what makes you decide to buy the car from me after all. So I've gained from my illegal activity. Additionally, if I don't tell you that the stereo is stolen, I've laundered my illegal doings through you. It's *highly* illegal, and downright immoral.
 

CanadaRAM

macrumors G5
alex_ant said:
Yeah, it's weird how eBay turns a blind eye to it, even though they crack down hard on a lot of other pirated software.
You can report to eBay throughtheir SafeHarbour section -- although they typically dont investigate it fast enough to do anything before the auction closes. But a better tactic is:

piracy@microsoft.com
piracy@adobe.com
piracy@apple.com
tip@macromedia.com

They have people whose only job it is to liaise with eBay as the "Registered rights owner" and get auctions pulled. The companies have way more weight than you or I.

The other thing is: If I have a Powerbook on auction, and ChumpyNoShoes has the same Powerbook for sale with Adobe CS Suite and Office and maybe FinalCut Pro on it, that's going to injure my chances of selling my Powerbook for a fair price.
 

dotdotdot

macrumors 68020
Jan 23, 2005
2,381
34
To be fair, some people actually DO send the software. Like if a person has Adobe Photoshop 7, CS, and CS2, they may sell the computer with the Photoshop 7 discs (or preinstalled with discs).

How many times have you seen Apple computers coming with only Tiger install discs and iLife '05 preinstalled.

Doesn't mean its pirated.
 

CanadaRAM

macrumors G5
dotdotdot said:
To be fair, some people actually DO send the software. Like if a person has Adobe Photoshop 7, CS, and CS2, they may sell the computer with the Photoshop 7 discs (or preinstalled with discs).

How many times have you seen Apple computers coming with only Tiger install discs and iLife '05 preinstalled.

Doesn't mean its pirated.
Actually, the example you give would by definition be pirated.

If you have PS7 and upgrade to CS, you have not purchased a new license, you have upgraded your one and only license, and you are forbidden by your license to sell or give away the PS7 disks.

Selling software is usually legal only with a transfer of license from the one owner to the other, revoking all rights of the original owner to the license.

There is one wierd exception: If you have Photoshop and Illustrator, and upgrade to the CS Suite (which includes InDesign, Illustrator and Photoshop), it is only the Photoshop license that is attached to the upgrade, not Illustrator, so you may legally sell the Illustrator (with a transfer of license).
 

Sutekidane

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Jan 26, 2005
936
1
dotdotdot said:
To be fair, some people actually DO send the software. Like if a person has Adobe Photoshop 7, CS, and CS2, they may sell the computer with the Photoshop 7 discs (or preinstalled with discs).

How many times have you seen Apple computers coming with only Tiger install discs and iLife '05 preinstalled.

Doesn't mean its pirated.
Thats pretty much what I'm aiming at, that IS illegal, and wrong in every way.
 

mpopkin

macrumors 6502
Nov 14, 2003
298
3
Chapel Hill, NC
I dont sell stolen goods, i do not even post what i send on my ebay selling sight unless it is legal, i have sold software with my computer such as Photoshop and Final cut that have a site license, which means that the computer is given a serial number and license from a larger agreement that was worked out with Apple, my school does it and because i am a tutor who teaches video and photo editing i get access and ownership of licenses for this software, everytime the school updates to the next version, 7, cs, cs2 etc or fcp 4 to fcp 5, i get a new license, but i dont get a new cd, there is only one that can be installed on up to x amount of computers, so in essence the software that i have on my machine is preinstalled, if you format, delete it etc, its gone..period. that is what i do, but it is considered still to be price hiking even though it is not and is totally legal, i can only defend my actions totally, but i ask you and anyone else here this that brings to question anything about illegal software. Do you own or have a single mp3 or song that you didnt buy, do you have a copy of osx tiger that you borrowed from a friend, do you have anything that is illegal whatsoever, even music though it is small is illegal and dont give me or anyone else that crap and i dont mean to be offensive or sound angry, i am just trying to point out that anyone who can get mad at someone for using illegal software(though i am in the same boat with you about "selling" that illegal software) dont tell me that u dont own or have a single piece of music or software that you didnt pay for, if you have a computer and especially a mac at that, you have got music or software from an illicit source, just consider where the individuals who use the software come from, dont think about the fact that they are doing something totally immoral and for all of you who actually try to sell illegal goods and profit off it, you shouldnt, I have never sold stolen goods, i have left on my machine software that may have been acquired illegally and i do not regret it(i have only done this on one machine) most of the time i will clean format the machine i am selling except when including software that i have the cd and or license for. for site licensed software i dont hike the price, but i also dont include the cd's for stated reasons.

stridey said:
What you have to understand though, is that even though you don't hike the price, you're selling stolen goods. If I try to sell you a car, which I bought and paid for legally, and then throw in the sweet stereo I stole and installed, it sweetens the deal for you. Maybe that awesome stereo is what makes you decide to buy the car from me after all. So I've gained from my illegal activity. Additionally, if I don't tell you that the stereo is stolen, I've laundered my illegal doings through you. It's *highly* illegal, and downright immoral.
 

CanadaRAM

macrumors G5
mpopkin said:
I dont sell stolen goods, i do not even post what i send on my ebay selling sight unless it is legal, i have sold software with my computer such as Photoshop and Final cut that have a site license, which means that the computer is given a serial number and license from a larger agreement that was worked out with Apple, my school does it and because i am a tutor who teaches video and photo editing i get access and ownership of licenses for this software, everytime the school updates to the next version, 7, cs, cs2 etc or fcp 4 to fcp 5, i get a new license, but i dont get a new cd, there is only one that can be installed on up to x amount of computers, so in essence the software that i have on my machine is preinstalled, if you format, delete it etc, its gone..period. that is what i do, but it is considered still to be price hiking even though it is not and is totally legal, i can only defend my actions totally, but i ask you and anyone else here this that brings to question anything about illegal software. Do you own or have a single mp3 or song that you didnt buy, do you have a copy of osx tiger that you borrowed from a friend, do you have anything that is illegal whatsoever, even music though it is small is illegal and dont give me or anyone else that crap and i dont mean to be offensive or sound angry, i am just trying to point out that anyone who can get mad at someone for using illegal software(though i am in the same boat with you about "selling" that illegal software) dont tell me that u dont own or have a single piece of music or software that you didnt pay for, if you have a computer and especially a mac at that, you have got music or software from an illicit source, just consider where the individuals who use the software come from, dont think about the fact that they are doing something totally immoral and for all of you who actually try to sell illegal goods and profit off it, you shouldnt, I have never sold stolen goods, i have left on my machine software that may have been acquired illegally and i do not regret it(i have only done this on one machine) most of the time i will clean format the machine i am selling except when including software that i have the cd and or license for. for site licensed software i dont hike the price, but i also dont include the cd's for stated reasons.
Yow. Among the other things you don't do is use the return key much.

Simple: When you leave copyrighted software on a machine, without transferring your personally owned license to the purchaser, you are stealing.
Your school's site license explicitly forbids the use of the software by non-students -- probably even you when you leave the school. The software is not licensed to the machine, it is licensed to the school.

Nice attempt at an ad hominem attack to divert the subject though. Speculating on what's in someone else's closet in no way exonerates what's in yours.
 

Mechcozmo

macrumors 603
Jul 17, 2004
5,215
2
mpopkin said:
I dont sell stolen goods, i do not even post what i send on my ebay selling sight unless it is legal, i have sold software with my computer such as Photoshop and Final cut that have a site license, which means that the computer is given a serial number and license from a larger agreement that was worked out with Apple, my school does it and because i am a tutor who teaches video and photo editing i get access and ownership of licenses for this software, everytime the school updates to the next version, 7, cs, cs2 etc or fcp 4 to fcp 5, i get a new license, but i dont get a new cd, there is only one that can be installed on up to x amount of computers, so in essence the software that i have on my machine is preinstalled, if you format, delete it etc, its gone..period. that is what i do, but it is considered still to be price hiking even though it is not and is totally legal, i can only defend my actions totally, but i ask you and anyone else here this that brings to question anything about illegal software. Do you own or have a single mp3 or song that you didnt buy, do you have a copy of osx tiger that you borrowed from a friend, do you have anything that is illegal whatsoever, even music though it is small is illegal and dont give me or anyone else that crap and i dont mean to be offensive or sound angry, i am just trying to point out that anyone who can get mad at someone for using illegal software(though i am in the same boat with you about "selling" that illegal software) dont tell me that u dont own or have a single piece of music or software that you didnt pay for, if you have a computer and especially a mac at that, you have got music or software from an illicit source, just consider where the individuals who use the software come from, dont think about the fact that they are doing something totally immoral and for all of you who actually try to sell illegal goods and profit off it, you shouldnt, I have never sold stolen goods, i have left on my machine software that may have been acquired illegally and i do not regret it(i have only done this on one machine) most of the time i will clean format the machine i am selling except when including software that i have the cd and or license for. for site licensed software i dont hike the price, but i also dont include the cd's for stated reasons.
Let me introduce you to a friend of mine. His name is the "return" key. Sometimes you hear him called the "enter" key but "return" is the preferred name. He breaks up long chunks of text into manageable, bite-sized pieces.

Next week's lesson: The colon. No, not home surgery for dummies...
 
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