To Those Microsoft Fans Who Bashed Apple's iPhone App Ecosystem

gibbz

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May 31, 2007
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Looks like the Microsoft fans who bashed Apple's iPhone app ecosystem aren't too happy. I'd imagine it is possible that Android may seem some gains because of this.

The comments are pretty entertaining.

From Engadget

We just got out of a meeting with Microsoft's Todd Biggs, who dropped a little bombshell on us: the only official way to get apps on a Windows Phone 7 Series device will be to download them from the just-detailed Windows Phone Marketplace. That means developers will have to abide by Microsoft's technical and content guidelines in order to make it in, with the very real possibility of rejection -- sound familiar?
 

gibbz

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I guess Apple's system was so terrible that Microsoft basically copied their system.
 

FSMBP

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Jan 22, 2009
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Let's not forget about Microsoft's "new" way of multitasking for WP7S...push notifications.
 

jaw04005

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Aug 19, 2003
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The article also mentions they're doing an ad hoc thing similar to Apple's and like Android they're going to offer trial applications.
 

AquaVita

macrumors newbie
Feb 1, 2007
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0
Oh yeah, don't post the rest of the article or anything :rolleyes:

MS learned from Apples completely stupid and idiotic mistakes with the App store. Here's the rest for people that hate clicking on links:

Todd told us Microsoft plans to avoid Apple-style submission headaches by making the process transparent and predictable, with a group of Microsoft execs regularly meeting to examine edge cases and refine the guidelines as needed, but even the best intentions can be led astray by a sexy app or two. We also got some additional details on Marketplace and how it's going to work, catch the highlights after the break.

Windows Phone Marketplace appears to take some of the best parts of the App Store and the Android Market and throw them together into a hodgepodge, but they've strayed a bit with the trial period system -- with the Marketplace, it's up to the developer to decide how the trial works. There are API hooks to let the developer manage the whole process, actually -- to quote Biggs, a game dev could end the trial after you've killed 50 trolls, for example. There's no additional download after the trial expires; the game just unlocks if you choose to buy it.
Marketplace membership for developers still costs $99 a year, though Biggs says they're looking at tweaking the 5-app limit per account present in 6.5 -- whether that means they'll remove the limit altogether, though, we don't yet know.
There are no fees for developers to update their apps, nor fees for users to download them.
Speaking of user downloads, you'll be able to uninstall purchased apps and redownload them at a later time at your leisure -- the purchases are tied to your Live account, not your phone, so you can move between devices at will. That's a Microsoft policy that developers won't be able to override.
If a dev wants to post a free, ad-supported app, they've only got two hurdles: the $99 fee and -- of course -- approval by Microsoft. For ad-supported apps specifically, the company will have some guidelines specifically targeted at making sure the ads are appropriate and germane.
Microsoft's only dealing in real money here -- no points (though there's still an opportunity for direct carrier billing).
Though there's some development synergy between Zune and WP7S at this point (with XNA, specifically), there's no ecosystem synergy beyond that -- different marketplaces for the developers to submit to and manage.
You'll be able to browse and buy apps and games through the Zune desktop client on your PC.
Though there's no way for end users to purchase and install apps outside of the Marketplace, Microsoft is naturally working on a solution for trialling apps on a limited number of devices; if we had to guess, it'll be something akin to Apple's ad hoc installation mode, but Charlie Kindel has said that it won't be available in the first release of the platform. For now, the only way to do it is to unlock devices one at a time through the developer portal, and Microsoft isn't talking about how many devices you'll be able to unlock on an account right now.
Oh and don't forget about this!

On several occasions, Biggs stressed that the company will be publishing comprehensive policies and guidelines in May, so that should fill in any blanks we've still got by then.
Comprehensive guidelines? Comprehensive policies? What part of THAT is a ripoff of Apple's kafkaesque app approval nightmare, again?
 

gibbz

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May 31, 2007
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Oh yeah, don't post the rest of the article or anything :rolleyes:
That's why I linked. There is no point in making the first post really long. Sorry that a link was too much work for you.
MS learned from Apples completely stupid and idiotic mistakes with the App store. Comprehensive guidelines? Comprehensive policies? What part of THAT is a ripoff of Apple's kafkaesque app approval nightmare, again?
Yeah, pretty idiotic considering the insanely popular mobile applications system that Apple has created. :rolleyes:

Has Apple goofed and been inconsistent with policies? Sure. You see though, that is expected when a company pioneers anything. I'm sure Apple even surprised themselves with the success of the App Store. Microsoft learned from Apple's mistakes because they are content to copy Apple. They should get more things right after having 2 years to see how something successful operates.

Oh, and the quote you show says "plans to avoid." Let's see how that pans out.
 

jaw04005

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Aug 19, 2003
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Apple started off with good intentions also. It's not easy being a gate keeper. Microsoft, provided they're anywhere near as successful as Apple, will run into the same problems Apple did.

How sexy is too sexy? Do we want our corporate brand to be associated with this app? Does this app duplicate functionality of our core apps? What market will be offended by this app? Why types of political apps do we allow?

It'll be interesting to see how they respond. They do have the benefit of watching Apple's mistakes.
 

MWPULSE

macrumors 6502a
Dec 27, 2008
706
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London
I find it shocking that MS would attempt to blatantly copy something of Apple's
Its never happened before.. very strange indeed, especially seeing as MS hates apple it would seem ;)

PTP

Also, although not entirely related, the android way of doing things isn't apparently all that popular at the mo ;)
http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/03/android-version-confusion/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed:+wired/index+

I did have a better link, that epitomised many of the problems within the android marketplace..
 

IBradMac

macrumors 68000
Jun 27, 2008
1,800
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Ohio
Microsoft App store

Norton Antivirus - $29.99 a year subscription. Protects your mobile device from malware and viruses.

Avast anti virus- $39.99 a year subscription. Updates daily for your mobile device for protection against viruses!

etc.:D:D:D
 

gibbz

macrumors 68030
Original poster
May 31, 2007
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Windows is more popular than OS X, and has more apps. Therefore it is better! :)

Right?
Of course not. You seemed to completely dismiss the App Store. I was trying to point out how successful it has become in 2 years, to the point that companies everywhere are trying to copy the iPhone/App Store success.

I did acknowledge that they have made mistakes. In fact, I think there have been some pretty stupid ones at that. As it has been pointed out above, when you pioneer something, acting as the gatekeeper, there will always be problems that are never even considered beforehand.

The main point is that there were tons of MS fans who blasted Apple for their distribution system, even MS themselves. Now, here we are 2 years later and MS is, for all intents and purposes, copying Apple. I imagine some MS fans will take the route of "we will do it better". However, the comments I did read seem to indicate they were being consistent and were unhappy with MS's decision.

Will this enhance Android's appeal?

P.S. I do like the app trials idea.
 

kernkraft

macrumors 68020
Jun 25, 2009
2,455
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Microsoft App store

Norton Antivirus - $29.99 a year subscription. Protects your mobile device from malware and viruses.

Avast anti virus- $39.99 a year subscription. Updates daily for your mobile device for protection against viruses!

etc.:D:D:D
Apparently, not everybody shares your optimism about the Mac's resistance to viruses. Even Apple Stores stock these:
 

Attachments

Consultant

macrumors G5
Jun 27, 2007
13,286
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Windows is more popular than OS X, and has more apps. Therefore it is better! :)

Right?
The difference is IBM basically gave Microsoft the PC monopoly. It was not won in the free market.

Apple earned its market share in the music industry and mobile phone industry.
 

lucidmedia

macrumors 6502a
Oct 13, 2008
702
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Wellington, New Zealand
Interesting to couple the Microsoft announcement with Tim Bray's comments about the App store today. Bray is the co-developer of XML and announced he has joined Google today.

<quote>
"The iPhone vision of the mobile Internet’s future omits controversy, sex, and freedom, but includes strict limits on who can know what and who can say what. It’s a sterile Disney-fied walled garden surrounded by sharp-toothed lawyers. The people who create the apps serve at the landlord’s pleasure and fear his anger.

I hate it.

I hate it even though the iPhone hardware and software are great, because freedom’s not just another word for anything, nor is it an optional ingredient.

The big thing about the Web isn’t the technology, it’s that it’s the first-ever platform without a vendor (credit for first pointing this out goes to Dave Winer). From that follows almost everything that matters, and it matters a lot now, to a huge number of people. It’s the only kind of platform I want to help build.

Apple apparently thinks you can have the benefits of the Internet while at the same time controlling what programs can be run and what parts of the stack can be accessed and what developers can say to each other.

I think they’re wrong and see this job as a chance to help prove it.

The tragedy is that Apple builds some great open platforms; I’ve been a happy buyer of their computing systems for some years now and, despite my current irritation, will probably go on using them."
</quote>

His full comments are here: http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/201x/2010/03/15/Joining-Google
 

kdarling

macrumors P6
Let's not forget about Microsoft's "new" way of multitasking for WP7S...push notifications.
Yep, it sure sounds like a copy... except for a better notification bar on the phone.

Getting rare to find anything truly new in computing: Apple copied push notification registration from Java mobile's push registry, and spliced in the idea of a central push server from Blackberry BES.

----

I'm going to crack up laughing if Apple starts allowing background tasks, and MS starts backpedaling to do the same.

--

As for MS keeping control over WP7 Metro phones, well... at least independent and enterprise developers can continue using the WP Classic phones that run WM6.x.

I betcha someone will "jailbreak" WP7, though :)
 

BergerFan

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Mar 6, 2008
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Heard the new joke about a certain OS, that's not going to have cut & paste? :p
At this rate, Microsoft won't include video recording and MMS either :D
 

FSMBP

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Jan 22, 2009
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Yep, it sure sounds like a copy... except for a better notification bar on the phone.

Getting rare to find anything truly new in computing: Apple copied push notification registration from Java mobile's push registry, and spliced in the idea of a central push server from Blackberry BES.

----

I'm going to crack up laughing if Apple starts allowing background tasks, and MS starts backpedaling to do the same.

--

As for MS keeping control over WP7 Metro phones, well... at least independent and enterprise developers can continue using the WP Classic phones that run WM6.x.

I betcha someone will "jailbreak" WP7, though :)

I really hope Apple at least allows "certified apps" to run in the background if they don't implement complete multitasking. For example, Pandora will be able to run in the background in Windows Phone 7, but not all apps can do that.
 

BergerFan

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Mar 6, 2008
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I can forsee some kind of task manager implementation, but not a draconian one, where the user can stop whatever app running that they want.
I guess the four default, stock apps(Phone, Email, Safari & iPod) won't be allowed to be stopped, only the third party, sandboxed ones, which would make sense.
On the other end, I can't see Apple allowing an unlimited number of third-party apps to run simultaneously either - maybe only 4 or 5 maximum, to go with the stock, default four(who seriously needs more than that?).
 

thetexan

macrumors 6502a
May 11, 2009
720
0
I believe the whole thread is misleading. There are no quotes of Microsoft bashing the app store, just WM fans bashing it. Who said they're going to follow WM into the 7 territory? They might switch to Android, Palm, or even RIM that allows freedom on the phone that you paid $200+ for instead of the training wheels and parental figures telling me what's good for me in the App store offered by Apple.

The whole iTunes app store censorship could be fixed instantly if Apple just allowed people to install applications outside of iTunes without jailbreaking your phone. Freedom. Because Microsoft is going with a closed system I will not be trying anything on their new platform, not that I was considering it in the first place.

I'll hand it to Microsoft though, Windows 7 is awesome. On my Macbook I now only use Win7 in bootcamp, I haven't booted OSX on that machine in two months.