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amols said:
BR drives costs 1000$ (cheap ones) and disks no less than 40$. You can buy over 3 TB of reusable/reliable/much faster HD Storage in that amount. I think that should be more than enough for any backups.

Players are that much but burners are not and discs are about $20. Just read my post on page 2 with the link for a drive and media :cool:
I started that whole thread with the hopes that others had other links of good burners and media that would show how prices were not as high as some "Corporate" companies would have us believe (yeah that sounds odd).
Also the discs are either 1X or 2X to start but with every new day it could change as releases are on the rise.
 
TerryJ said:
Any 1080p television worth anything can easily deinterlace the 1080i signal from the Toshiba HD DVD player with zero image degradation. There simply is no difference. The 1080p vs. 1080i thing (for HD DVD and BD) is a myth.

First, I mentioned that the outputting problem is common with both formats the existing HD-DVD AND Blu-Ray decks currently on the market because the decoder chip is just not that great. That is why people are making a big deal about the upcoming Sigma Designs decoder chip that will come standard in both formats' second generation machines. Look it up.

And deinterlacing an input signal is not as good as the outputting device outputting in progressive scan in the first place. Do you want to argue that upscaling DVD players are just as good as the current HD formats while you are at it?

TerryJ said:
Sony has not stated any plan to use H.264 encoding. No studio has stated any plans for H.264 encoding either. It's either MPEG-2 vs. VC-1, and if you've watched anything on HD DVD, you'd know it's capable of amazing results. Compared to all available Blu-Ray discs, VC-1 beats MPEG-2. A better Blu-ray deck will not make the crappy MPEG-2 discs look better, because the problem is with the disc, not the player. Even when BD50 discs are viable (some day!), they'll still use MPEG-2. Warner, who has already released VC-1 encoded HD DVDs, will be releasing the same titles on BD in... you guessed it... MPEG-2.

Nobody is arguing that VC-1 does not outperform MPEG2. However, it is nowhere near as good as H.264 MPEG4. We know it, the SMPTE knows it, and of course in their dark hearts, Microsoft knows it too. The problem currently is that the machines on the market do not have good enough decoder chips - again, referencing the problems that will be solved with the Sigma chip hits the market - to decode the H.264 codec. But once the good chips hit the market, it is doubtful that the HD-DVD format will ever back H.264 because that would cheese off Microsoft. And the success of VC-1 and iHD is crucial to Microsoft's entertainment expansion plans. If HD-DVD dies, Microsoft loses out on both VC-1 royalities as well as iHD licensing and places the Xbox360 ultimately at a competitive disadvantage.

Just because Sony hasn't announced H.264 support does not add up to much. They don't even have their own player on the market yet. And until then - as well as the PS3 launch - I doubt they will announce support. After all, currently, Sony is only interested in Blu-Ray being viable for upcoming consumers; they really do not want us buying the Samsung player currently. So no, I (also) highly doubt your assertion that Sony will still cling to MPEG2 when the higher capacity discs hit the market. Furthermore, Sony already uses H.264 on their PSP UMD titles. Obviously, the reason why they haven't done likewise on Blu-Ray discs has to do with the decoder chips, not due to any sort of conspiracy or incompetence factor that you seem to be asserting.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Media_Disc

Based upon the info on that link, it is apparent that Sony is no stranger to encoding using H.264 and thus there is no logical reason to conclude that Sony won't shift to using H.264 on all of their Blu-Ray titles once their own players and the PS3 ships.

As for Warner Home Video, they have a vested interest in making sure Blu-Ray does not succeed. Warner and Toshiba both make quite a sizeable fortune off the royalties from the DVD standard. They both want HD-DVD to succeed so they can maintain those royalities. Had Sony and the rest of the Blu-Ray Disc Association agreed to preserving the Warner/Toshiba royalities, there would not be a format war currently, and Toshiba would not have prostituted itself to Microsoft over iHD and VC-1.

TerryJ said:
Furthermore, iHD is apparently much easier to develop for than BD-J. That's one reason why there are already HD DVDs with interesting new features (like the "In Movie Experience" on Bourne Supremacy) vs. no new extra features for any BD discs, nor are there any discs announced with new (BD-J) features.

Can any other posters shill the Microsoft party line more? "They" said the Sony Playstation2 was "too hard" to program for versus programming for the Microsoft Xbox. Which platform won again? Which platform had the most third-party support? That's right, the "too hard to program for" Playstation2. The reason why there are extra features on the current HD-DVD titles has to do with the fact that they are using VC-1 and the Blu-Ray titles are using the space-hungry MPEG2 codec currently. There's no room right now on Blu-Ray releases for the "extras" you are bringing up. It has nothing to do with "how hard" it is to program BD-J.

Reminds me of how Warner Bros. people started the whole "Brandon Routh is so well endowed that special effects are having to be used to tone down his crotch for *Superman Returns*" rumor that was circulating in the trades and online months before the film debuted. It was a recycled rumor that Warners had used back before the release of the original *Superman* with Christopher Reeve to generate buzz for potential female viewers. Kinda like how you are recycling/repeating the "BD-J is too hard to program for" rumor.

Let us also remember that Apple sits on the Blu-Ray Disc Association board. They could have supported either format, but they chose Blu-Ray for some reason...hmmm... Kinda like how they chose Dolby's AAC format as their "next generation" audio codec instead of Microsoft's (tin can sounding) WMA audio format. That speaks volumes.
 
Lynxpro said:
Can any other posters shill the Microsoft party line more? "They" said the Sony Playstation2 was "too hard" to program for versus programming for the Microsoft Xbox. Which platform won again? Which platform had the most third-party support? That's right, the "too hard to program for" Playstation2. The reason why there are extra features on the current HD-DVD titles has to do with the fact that they are using VC-1 and the Blu-Ray titles are using the space-hungry MPEG2 codec currently. There's no room right now on Blu-Ray releases for the "extras" you are bringing up. It has nothing to do with "how hard" it is to program BD-J.
Look... honestly the only "winner" I want in this format war is the disc that has the best high definition image and sound, has the most actual (good) movies available, and doesn't cost an arm and a leg.

I thought, on paper, Blu-ray had the most compelling feature set of the two discs. I pre-ordered a Sony BD deck. That got pushed way back. (I ended up cancelling it. I'll buy it when it comes out... I don't expect shortages.) In the interim, I bought an HD DVD deck. I can afford it and I have a decent sized Hi-def LCD rear projection set that is ISF calibrated that begs for HD content. I love watching stuff in HD. I can't stand watching stuff in SD. My HD DVR is filled to the brim.

HD DVD right now has 5gb more capacity. The VC-1 encoded discs look amazing. The special features are cool on a couple of the discs. The (mandatory) higher bit-rate sound formats sound better.

If Blu-ray (software and hardware) can do it better, then I welcome it. Get those damn 50gb discs out. Start using better codecs now! Start putting innovative features using BD-J. Get some good movies out there. And get some GOOD decks out there. THEN I will believe it. Only then will I buy it. Until then...in my opinion, there is nothing on the BD side of things worth buying.

-Terry
 
morespce54 said:
Well I guess not all DVDs were created equal... :D
I have quite a few (both original DVDs and CDs) that aren't working anymore... :(
Well some can't last the test of time (I've had some that stopped working myself) but, as long as from now on you get good quality media you'll be fine. :D
 
hokullani said:
well if apple is going to rely on sony for bluray then they will have to wait cuz sony is gonna use them all up on the PS3

Hay. PS3's drive is not BD-R drive. You can't burn disc in PS3. btw Sony have already shipped Bluray burners with their new VAIO.

iMikeT said:
Why announce the support of one standard now when there is another competing standard?

I heard that Final Cut Pro support HD-DVD workflow. Don't be sad. you can still buy an external drive.
 
LimeiBook86 said:
Actually this has been proved wrong. As long as your careful, keep them in a good tempered area they'll be fine. I still have some of my original CDs and DVDs that I burned that work fine - of course it doesn't hurt to backup those discs though. Scratching them is easy. ;)
Tell me about it! :rolleyes:

Many of the CDs I burned before 2000 are coasters by now. And they were handeled with extreme care... No UV light and room temperature. I was so stupid to believe the industry claims of '100 years longevity' and used them for archiving my projects.

Now a big part of my 90's projects is lost and I will never get them back. Redundant HD-Backups are the way to go. CDs and DVDs I only use anymore for transporting data (blanks are cheap, they then can stay at their destination) or when I have to hand out a copy of a project to a customer. And of course for music and movies in order to be compatible to the rest of the world. But I would never again archive my projects on any DVD or CD. Too risky...

Blue-Ray as well as HD-DVD are not interesting at all for me at the moment, so I couldn't care less if they are incorporated in the upcoming Mac Pros...

Maybe that changes when the prices come down and HDTV finally gets into a stage where it actually really works flawlessly. Since I am not that big of a TV fan anyway, I don't see the need for it... When HDTV equipment costs as much as the 'normal' equipment these days and my current CRT-TV imploded, I might maybe consider it buying that stuff... Until then I have all I need to be happy...

groovebuster
 
Interesting that you had problems with your cds. Usually I never encountered such a thing. I take care of them but not spend too much time worrying about it. Lots of my work are backed up on cd's and dvds as early as the 90's.
I agreed that having a Hard Drive backup is a good thing. I am interested in the high capacity of the BR and HD-DVD discs, but I refuse to pay $50 for a disc. I rather buy at Fry's on promotion a 300GB hard drive for $89. Much better deal.

Until then I think Hard drives are the way to go to archive huge files. It will be interesting when these new dvd discs cost around $5 for 50GB, then I will jump on it.
 
MikeT said:
At this point, I couldn't really care less about Blu Ray or HD-DVD. I'd be more excited if Apple included Lightscribe or equivalent capability in their drives. Unlabeled discs are piled high on my desk.

use a sharpie :)
 
JGowan said:
I've got a thought...

You've probably already been slapped about this but I haven't read through all the posts...

Dude... I'm assuming you're a Christian to be so up-in-arms about the holiday (but I don't think that's the right example, honestly) -- you need to also be more tolerant of other religious holidays at the same time such as Hananachaka (butchered that) and Kwanza as well as some others, I'd imagine.

Kwanzaa has two a's in it. Before you go slapping on others for posts about meaningless things (the guy can't wait for christmas, so what), you might want to open a dictionary yourself and get a clue.

Agnostically,
 
gugy said:
Interesting that you had problems with your cds. Usually I never encountered such a thing. I take care of them but not spend too much time worrying about it. Lots of my work are backed up on cd's and dvds as early as the 90's.

same here, i just finished moving everything off CD-R, some as old as '97 to DVD-R, DVD-R DL. i figure it's a few years before i start moving everything off the DVD's and onto my new GREEN-RAY burner, cause those 100TB GR-R discs will be bleading edge yo.
 
Heh, cool, and as with other similar storage technologies, a disc will take 123087012863018 hours to write and blank media will cost $120370860861 each for about the next 10 years. Still, cool!!!! nonetheless.
 
JGowan said:
Bite me. People need to have more tolerance to other religions. Period. Christianity is not the only religion on the planet, though some seem to think it should be.

Whaaaa!!! An anonymous poster on a computer website doesn't think like I do! Whaaaa!!!!

Practice what you preach, punk.
 
New "CD/DVD Marker" Specific Sharpie To Avoid Damage To CDs and DVDs

MikeT said:
At this point, I couldn't really care less about Blu Ray or HD-DVD. I'd be more excited if Apple included Lightscribe or equivalent capability in their drives. Unlabeled discs are piled high on my desk.
Multimedia said:
Get a Sharpie. :D
Just got word there is a new New CD/DVD Specific Sharpie. Rumor on internet is that regular Sharpie ink leeches into DVDs and CDs destroying the data on them in a few years. Anyone can confirm or refute this rumor?

I just got my first Sharpie "CD/DVD Marker" today - new product that will not do the above damage. :confused: :eek: :(
 
gugy said:
Usually I never encountered such a thing...
But that is exactly the point... 'Usually' is already no enough for a back-up medium.

The coaster rate for me is around 1:4 for the old burned CDs.

Just check your old CDs for fun. I am pretty sure you'll find some little surprises, also called 'read errors'... ;)

Sometimes just a few files are screwed, but if these files happen to be the file map in the root, the CD definitely has a new life as a coaster.. ;)

groovebuster
 
gugy said:
It will be interesting when these new dvd discs cost around $5 for 50GB, then I will jump on it.
Are you sure? By then you will get at least 1TB hard drives for 100$ (there are already 750GB drives on the market). I still would prefer the hard drive. Faster data access and easier handling...

groovebuster
 
groovebuster said:
Are you sure? By then you will get at least 1TB hard drives for 100$ (there are already 750GB drives on the market). I still would prefer the hard drive. Faster data access and easier handling...

groovebuster

To me I think Discs need to me eliminated in all forms. No blue Ray no HD-DVD no dual layer anyhting.

Lets just use memory sticks and Hard drives.

Can you imagine if You Car stero no longer had CD player slots, but Say a new Credit Card size flash drive with 8 GBs... that'd be nice...

To me the whole Disc format in every way is a pain...
 
poppe said:
Can you imagine if You Car stero no longer had CD player slots, but Say a new Credit Card size flash drive with 8 GBs... that'd be nice...
Yes, I can... and that would be awesome! It's nice that you can connect your iPod to the car stereo (if it has a line-in), but just another expensive gadget you need to carry around all the time and overall very expensive. Since years I am waiting for a car stereo that is capable of using SD or CF cards. MP3 playback from CDs is already no issue anymore since years. When the next logical step is finally coming?

poppe said:
To me the whole Disc format in every way is a pain...
Yup,... it is yesterday's technology on steroids...

groovebuster
 
Japanese Mac Users Get First OS X-Friendly Logitech Blu-ray Burner Mid-August $1148

Japanese Mac users get first OS X-friendly Blu-ray burner from Logitech mid-August. Only $1148 folks. :eek: I guess somebody's gotta start somewhere. At least we know they are really almost for sale somewhere on planet Earth. :rolleyes: ;) Comes with Blu-ray version of Toast 7 Titanium.

"Logitec also said the drive - dubbed the LBD-A2FU2/WM - will support DVD-RAM, DVD±R/RW, dual-layer DVD±R and CD-R/RW discs. The unit has both USB 2.0 and Firewire interfaces on board."

Wonder how much these burners will cost this time next summer?

For $1148 you can buy 4 Terabytes of Hard Drives today. That would be eighty 50GB Blu-ray discs @ $50 each would be $4,000 for the blank media to record 4 Terabytes. $1,000 per Terabyte Vs. $250 per Terabyte of HD storage. I just don't get the economics of this Blu-ray thing at all. :eek: :confused:
 

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I'd wait until they get BR working fine, last I checked they couldn't get 50 gigs working properly, only 25. So as of right now, HD-DVD holds more at 30 gigs than Blu-ray at 25.
 
I went to Comic-Con and they mentioned that Blu-Ray and HD-DVD does not work very well.
 
:eek:
Multimedia said:
Japanese Mac users get first OS X-friendly Blu-ray burner from Logitech mid-August. Only $1148 folks. :eek: I guess somebody's gotta start somewhere. At least we know they are really almost for sale somewhere on planet Earth. :rolleyes: ;) Comes with Blu-ray version of Toast 7 Titanium.

"Logitec also said the drive - dubbed the LBD-A2FU2/WM - will support DVD-RAM, DVD±R/RW, dual-layer DVD±R and CD-R/RW discs. The unit has both USB 2.0 and Firewire interfaces on board."

Wonder how much these burners will cost this time next summer?

For $1148 you can buy 4 Terabytes of Hard Drives today. That would be eighty 50GB Blu-ray discs @ $50 each would be $4,000 for the blank media to record 4 Terabytes. $1,000 per Terabyte Vs. $250 per Terabyte of HD storage. I just don't get the economics of this Blu-ray thing at all. :eek: :confused:

OUCH!!!!!:eek: But very cool!
 
groovebuster said:
Yes, I can... and that would be awesome! It's nice that you can connect your iPod to the car stereo (if it has a line-in), but just another expensive gadget you need to carry around all the time and overall very expensive. Since years I am waiting for a car stereo that is capable of using SD or CF cards. MP3 playback from CDs is already no issue anymore since years. When the next logical step is finally coming?


Yup,... it is yesterday's technology on steroids...

groovebuster

I know Radio about 3 years ago had a memory stick option, but it never caught on...
 
In doing some research, I found out that the basic Pioneer DVR-111 series SuperDrives Apple uses (some G4/all G5/all Intel towers) have the hardware capability to do LabelFlash direct-to-disk-surface label burning with the compatible disks. LabelFlash is the NEC-originated competitor to LightScribe, does basically the same thing on LightScribe-compatible disks.
On the Windows side, there are lots of sites out there that talk about flashing the ROMs to enable the feature for certain revision letters & firmware versions of the DVR-111 drives, while other versions of the drive (DVR-111L) are already fully capable (no clue on the ones Apple shipped with the Macs -- I stopped paying attention when I found there were ZERO software apps to support it on the Mac side that I could find).

Personally, I would really like to see Apple provide the feature as an OS-bundled utility app or added-feature in an existing Apple burner app (like the one in the iLife bundle).

As of March '05, Roxio also said they were going to support LightScribe (and possibly LabelFlash) in their future Mac releases, but I didn't see any mention of it in the feature sets of Toast & Toast Titanium 6 & 7, both of which were either updated or released after that date. Theoretically, they could also support LightScribe (if licensed) to burn images into unused portions of the dataside (as could any other burner app), to create a label effect (see http://www.yamahamultimedia.com/yec/tech/discta2_01.asp for details on the technology).

The epson CD-printer solution seems a bit silly for my uses, if I have no other use for the printer, mostly because of the consumables costs (and, indeed, with a big HP laser color printer here, I have zero other use for the Epson and am not thrilled by their putty-style inks and subsequent print head maintenance/cleaning processes that waste a goodly chunk of the ink reservior).

As for the sharpie comments, I create CD's & DVD's for clients and would prefer to present a more "professional image" on the disks than hand-written solutions. I was printing color labels through my laser printer and setting them in (usually using Avery CD labels), but some of the clients, esp. those with very thin portables seemed to be having issues with the thicker disks as a result, so I went back to sharpies as a general rule. The ability to do LabelFlash disks with hardware I already own would be great...

Cheers,
=-= The CyberPoet
 
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