today, apple have taught me its better to pirate than to purchase from itunes

Discussion in 'Apple Music, Apple Pay, iCloud, Apple Services' started by Rossatron, Mar 8, 2015.

  1. Rossatron macrumors 6502a

    Apr 4, 2013
    in a ziplock bag inside a car's trunk
    i was casually compiling a playlist on my iPhone, when i noticed that one album was missing, and instead there was the "cloud" icon. so i pressed it, figuring it would just download. it didn't. apparently apple have pulled that specific album from iTunes without as much as notification.

    i contacted CS, which were very kind (at first) and did apologies for the incident. they offered me a one (1!) song credit as some sort of compensation.
    i told the representative that 1 song credit is... a bit unfair in this situation. i offered them what i thought were reasonable suggestions:

    1) remove the album permanently from my account and refund the sum i paid

    2) remove the album, but provide me with song credits in equal value or amount to the price/amount of songs in that album.

    these (i think) are not greedy demands.

    apple, however, declined - referred me to a close in the user agreement and told me that the song credit was "just a one time thing".

    needless to say, I'm very disappointed with their CS. basically, this means that they keep the $30 and I'm left with squat. $30 may seem like a childish thing to get all worked up about, but a-its still money; b-its money i worked for.
    is there a way for me to speak with a higher ranking CS representative?

    anyway, i wanted to post this as a heads-up.
  2. b0fh666 macrumors 6502a


    Oct 12, 2012
    well, i knew this even before itunes existed.

    that sucks
  3. pdjudd macrumors 601

    Jun 19, 2007
    Plymouth, MN
    No, you shouldn’t pirate, you should back up your content - something that is basic common sense. None of the iTunes services that allow you to re-download things (even Match) is considered a backup - services like that are always based on content availability and I believe that is spelled out in the TOS that you sign.
  4. Rossatron thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Apr 4, 2013
    in a ziplock bag inside a car's trunk
    i saw no reason to back-up given the possibility to download everything at a whim.
  5. triptolemus macrumors 6502


    Apr 17, 2011
    Famous last words...
  6. Primejimbo macrumors 68040

    Aug 10, 2008
    Always, always, always back up.

    How is this any different you you pirated something, put it in a cloud, and deleted it by accident?

    I get most of my music from iTunes. I download it, and then my computer is also backed up. How hard is it to back up things now a days with external hard drives so cheap?
  7. Thekarens macrumors member

    Nov 26, 2014
    I can't back up because I don't have a computer, so people like me who only use phones/tablets could be a problem, but I'm wondering what kind of album costs $30.
  8. aristobrat macrumors G5

    Oct 14, 2005
    Online stores and streaming services are licensed the rights <by other companies> to sell/stream all the specific songs, albums, TV shows, movies, books, etc.

    The companies that make the licensing deals to the online stores/streaming services that allow them to remove their content from the stores when they want, or at the end of the deal <if the deal isn't renewed>.

    Remember when Taylor Swift pulled all of her content off (less one song) off of Spotify right before her last album launched?

    Do you see the quarterly media buzz for what movies and TV shows that licensing deals have Netflix remove from their library?

    Do you remember when Disney pulled The Lion King and Beauty and the Beast from both Amazon and Apple?

    You bring up a very valid point, and it applies to all online stores, not just Apple.

    Always backup the media that you purchase, because the online stores don't control the licensing deals, and what you bought today may not be available to re-download later. If you don't own a computer and can't back up, I'm not sure I'd purchase content from online stores.
  9. Rossatron thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Apr 4, 2013
    in a ziplock bag inside a car's trunk
    The diffrence is that on the one hand I lose money & the album, on the other I lose nothing.

    I shouldn't care about licensing deals. The costumer shouldn't be placed in that spot to begin with.
  10. Primejimbo, Mar 8, 2015
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2015

    Primejimbo macrumors 68040

    Aug 10, 2008
    You been here for 2 years and many people have said to always back up your purchases. So who's fault is it? So because you didn't back up what you bought, you'll steal what others made?

    I really think this is one of the reasons why music (or movies) isn't as great as it should (and can) be. If I was a musician who made it big, why would I make something if people are just going to steal it anyways?

    If you want a hard copy and not worry about the cloud, maybe you should by CDs then. I have 2-3 back ups of all my music, movies, and pictures because I don't want an "oops". Then try to blame others for not me backing up my digital stuff because I wasn't prepared.

    Sorry this happened, but 2 wrongs don't make a right.
  11. Rossatron thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Apr 4, 2013
    in a ziplock bag inside a car's trunk
    Why would I need to backup what is essentially a backup? I didn't mind downloading everything again when needed, and it's not like the songs are not replaceable - so for me, a library backup is redundant.

    It's not a matter of "steal it anyway", because piracy wasn't something I considered. But if you, as an artist, are willing to except the fact that your fans can be screwed-over in a heartbeat by vague licensing issues, then im very sorry for you.

    The very least Apple could have done was to give notice that an item was going to be removed.
  12. Jessica Lares macrumors G3

    Jessica Lares

    Oct 31, 2009
    Near Dallas, Texas, USA
    It's in the terms of service you agreed to when you first started buying music in the iTunes Store.

    And I don't know what this $30 album would have been, but never count on those things sticking around. I've seen even legitimate studio albums disappear from the store, and once they remaster it, the originals are gone too.
  13. BasicGreatGuy Contributor


    Sep 21, 2012
    In the middle of several books.
    OP, the onus is on you to back up iTunes purchases. Apple makes a point to tell buyers to do that. You chose not to. And because an album was pulled, you are mad at Apple because you didn't take prudent care to secure your purchase. And to make matters worse, you want to use that as some kind of justification to pirate.

    Grade F.
  14. Porco macrumors 68030


    Mar 28, 2005
    I think most of the anger towards Apple is misplaced but I do have some sympathy for the OP's point of view.

    I'm not saying I disagree with everyone saying that a back-up (which means at least 2 copies in the user's control) should have been made, but I think the vast majority of tech companies are hammering the 'trust the cloud, the cloud is great, yay!' message pretty hard, and while that doesn't remove the need to be careful with any online media you purchase I think it makes it a little harsh to have a lack of sympathy when the consumer loses out when the almighty cloud doesn't actually work like it should.

    I think Rossatron (OP) is right that the consumer shouldn't have to deal with licensing issues between content owners and online stores. There should be laws by now that say if you buy digital content outright it should be accessible up and until the store goes out of business, and/or reasonable notice given of removal of items' availability. That's just common sense really.

    But 'should be so' and 'is so' are different things sadly.

    I feel bad for you, Rossatron. I think you should try to see the positive side, and take it as a lesson to back-up anything of any value to you in future, because in the grand scheme of things, one $30 album could be a much better thing to lose than masses of important data like photos or work documents etc.

    Also I think the lesson should be to have a physical copy of stuff, whether you bought it online or purchased a CD and imported it… rather than pirating, which while I can see why the equation was made (you paid for it already!) doesn't make it alright, or a good idea. On the specific album, I would recommend trying to get it cheap on CD if possible (may not be if it was exclusively online I don't know), but even if it's used once you rip it it's all the same.

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13 March 8, 2015