TomTom for iPhone Appears in New Zealand App Store

[mvl]

However I will disagree with you on the 3GS not having enough horsepower for this. The processor in the iPhone 3G is already going to be as good or better than what a standalone TomTom has. The 3GS is probably a better and faster CPU than any portable navigation currently has and it should have no problem handling background tasks like telephone and music player along with running the navigation with every bell and whistle imaginable.

The high-end traffic-enabled Tomtoms have 400mhz ARM CPUs. From what I heard, the iPhone has somthing in the range of a 600-800mhz ARM CPU. It's certainly more powerful, but has to do more (like listen for calls). I also didn't expect the Tomtom app to run the iPhone at full power, but there are a number of lag/heat posts I've seen which makes me think of that as a possibility.

Navigon has always been an early innovator in the GPS space. They pioneered many of the cool technologies that the bug guys (Garmin / Tomtom) copied. In the PND world, Navigon always had the cool features first, but Tomtom (with IQroutes direction engine and mapshare) had the lead on useful features that kept Tomtom ahead in sales.

This is just replaying itself on the iPhone - Navigon has Lane Guidance, Tomtom has IQroutes. It's a fun space to watch - too bad I like flip phones. I may try these apps out if they make it to a bluetooth data-enabled iTouch.

 

[whmurray]

They are walking a fine line because as you point out they don't want to sabotage their existing hardware sales that earn them better margins (at least on the higher end devices that the iPhone would compete with if it had all of the good features)...............

Perhaps, but if that is their thinking, they are delusional. Their value is in the information, not the hardware. These days, hardware is a consumable; people pay for function (software), maps, points of interest, traffic, weather, fuel prices, etc. Would you rather be RCA or The Beatles? As the price of the hardware falls, it amplifies the value of the software. Even IBM knows you cannot make money in hardware.

 

[severe]

Perhaps, but if that is their thinking, they are delusional. Their value is in the information, not the hardware. These days, hardware is a consumable; people pay for function (software), maps, points of interest, traffic, weather, fuel prices, etc. Would you rather be RCA or The Beatles? As the price of the hardware falls, it amplifies the value of the software. Even IBM knows you cannot make money in hardware.

+1

 

[mvl]

They are walking a fine line because as you point out they don't want to sabotage their existing hardware sales that earn them better margins

I'm not so sure the hardware makes them higher margins. Tomtom said in their financial calls that they make 40% margin on a PND. If an average Tomtom sells for $140, then they make $50.

Now if the App Store takes a 30% cut of the $99 price, they make $70. Seems like they should prefer to sell App Store software (returning to their smartphone software roots)

 

[AppleMatt]

I'm not so sure the hardware makes them higher margins. Tomtom said in their financial calls that they make 40% margin on a PND. If an average Tomtom sells for $140, then they make $50.

Now if the App Store takes a 30% cut of the $99 price, they make $70. Seems like they should prefer to sell App Store software (returning to their smartphone software roots)

I know you don't know for certain, but you're better positioned to give an informed opinion:

- Do you think TomTom will add lane guidance?
- Same question for sign post info.
- Same question for live traffic updates.
- Same question for weather at destination.

Their PND's have many of these features, as do the competing iPhone applications. I like the look of the TomTom one the best, but it's more expensive and the £26 one does more than TomTom's £60. So at the moment I can't justify it at all.

I asked TomTom and they basically said 'Don't know if and what we'll add, and even if we did there wouldn't be a timeframe.' Which I found really helpful.

AppleMatt

 

[mvl]

I asked TomTom and they basically said 'Don't know if and what we'll add, and even if we did there wouldn't be a timeframe.' Which I found really helpful.

Tomtom is in the middle of a very competitive landscape, both on the PND and smartphone front, so I'm sure they are keeping very tight-lipped so that competitors don't have a chance to plan for and/or copy their ideas.

- Do you think TomTom will add lane guidance?
- Same question for sign post info.

The lack of lane guidance (ALG) and signpost reality view (RV) info really surprised me. On their PNDs, IQroutes was always bundled with ALG and RV. So given the WWDC announcement said the iPhone app an IQroutes system, the natural assumption was that the whole ALG/RV bundle would be included.

So I can come up with only 3 reasons:
1) The iPhone app 8.150 is a really old build number, right between their latest non-IQroutes/non-ALG/non-RV build number 8.081 and their earliest IQroutes/ALG/RV build 8.203. It's possible that they've focused on testing/tweaking a really old codebase, and it happened not to have the ALG/RV. If this is the case, then I would assume the next update will include these features.
2) There was a business decision to reduce features to not cannibalize Tomtom 140 sales. If this was the cause, I think Tomtom would change its plans now that a powerful competitor like Navigon has launched these features.
3) There is some patent/licensing issue that Tomtom is avoiding. If this is the case, I think it will be a while before Tomtom adds the feature. And if they do, the app will have a significant price hike to get it.

My personal guess: the next app update will include them. And the update will be released in 2-3 months.

- Same question for live traffic updates.
- Same question for weather at destination.

I think they are holding off on traffic deliberately. Tomtom has the best traffic system on the market in Europe (HD-traffic) that is unmatched anywhere in the turn-by-turn world. What Tomtom does is track the speed of Vodafone cellphones as they move down streets, and relay that info realtime to HD-traffic subscribers, so that the Tomtoms auto-adjust their routes. The accuracy and local street coverage is far better than the current American system (powered by road sensors, delivery trucks, and helicopter news reporters).

Most European HD-traffic subscribers learn to blindly trust the Tomtom directions. With HD-traffic and IQroutes, it is nearly impossible for a human to know enough to choose a better route than their Tomtom.

Tomtom has continued to say it is "in discussions" to get the HD-traffic system to the US. The biggest hurdle in my opinion is that Vodafone (45% owner of Verizon Wireless) uses incompatible CDMA technology in the US. My guess is that once HD-traffic launches in the US, Tomtom will upgrade the iPhone app to be compatible with the HD-traffic subscription. And similar to Europe, I presume it will be bundled with weather.

 

[hiimamac]

99.99 !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

A stand-alone device costs 50-70 dollars and includes a map... this is ridiculous. They are milking the Apple fan-base for as much as they can.

This is a rip-off!

LOL, I know and you know, if you use MAPS, you should be able to intergrate Tom Tom directly, in addition, there should be some Tom Tom software for the Mac and PC so you can set up address a bit easier. The interesting thing is many of the times you have to do what the TOM TOM app calls manually entering the address, for example, if you have a contact that says, Manny Rameriz, 123 Fenway Road, Boston MA 02156, et-cetera, the screen pops up saying it cannot understand then you select YES and it goes to Boston first, then the street, then the road number, so it seems that it's all backwards with Address book.

FWIW, not a huge hacker, sure I have a lot of FIREWIRE 800/400 eSata hard drives with 10.5.6, 10.5.7, 10.5.8, 10.4.11, Windows, Fusion, 10.6 Golden Master (I will buy it once it's stable), because Tom Tom was so highly priced and is offered on other phones (although there is on some a $4.99 a month fee), I jail broke my phone for the first time in over a year.

At first I was really worried and thought, I can't do this and am going to mess everything up. However, after some time, I got the hang of it, the apps out there basically do it for you anyway, and now on my 3G, I have tethering (HOW COOL IS THAT and it's faster than my wifes moms DSL), Video recording (non "S" model), and if I want, a sleuth of apps as I had no idea there was a usenet group with thousands of Apple Apps from the App store (including paid), that you can try if you like, plus a huge community of 3rd party apps, i.e. google phone that I am supposed to be getting an invite for, and so much more.

Tom Tom is cool but it needs more tweaking, will probably buy the hardware accessories (car kit) and the app when it comes down in price. Eligible for upgrade in January, so will give this to my wife and by then a 8Gig phone will be $99, but to be frank, I never used to much space but with all the options to try hundreds of apps, I will probably get the 16/32, especially once the FLASH plug in for Safari is working better. The other great thing about jail broken is not only are you supporting 3rd party app developers by purchasing from those turned away from Apple, you can do things like have APPS run in the background while doing other things. At a computer show last week, this one dude had original APPLE parts and copies. The original cords, headphones, et-cetera, where 1/2 the price, the non Apple, well put it this way, I got another cord, ear/mic, and car charger all for $11.00 or so, now it seems like I have plugs everywhere so battery concern is not a problem. Highly recommended.

Peace all.

 

[JFreak]

Navigon has always been an early innovator in the GPS space. They pioneered many of the cool technologies that the bug guys (Garmin / Tomtom) copied.

Hilarious

 

[JFreak]

Even IBM knows you cannot make money in hardware.

They just don't want to, but Apple do and succeeds.

 

[jmpage2]

They just don't want to, but Apple do and succeeds.

Apple is making money on hardware because they go with a model that bundles their very good OS with the (very nice) hardware.

If Apple made OS X available for distribution with non Apple hardware at major retailers, it would cannibalize a big chunk of their hardware sales, and their profits.

 

[jmpage2]

I think they are holding off on traffic deliberately. Tomtom has the best traffic system on the market in Europe (HD-traffic) that is unmatched anywhere in the turn-by-turn world. What Tomtom does is track the speed of Vodafone cellphones as they move down streets, and relay that info realtime to HD-traffic subscribers, so that the Tomtoms auto-adjust their routes. The accuracy and local street coverage is far better than the current American system (powered by road sensors, delivery trucks, and helicopter news reporters).

Most European HD-traffic subscribers learn to blindly trust the Tomtom directions. With HD-traffic and IQroutes, it is nearly impossible for a human to know enough to choose a better route than their Tomtom.

Tomtom has continued to say it is "in discussions" to get the HD-traffic system to the US. The biggest hurdle in my opinion is that Vodafone (45% owner of Verizon Wireless) uses incompatible CDMA technology in the US. My guess is that once HD-traffic launches in the US, Tomtom will upgrade the iPhone app to be compatible with the HD-traffic subscription. And similar to Europe, I presume it will be bundled with weather.

The smartest way to do traffic with the iPhone would simply be to have the iPhone relay its speed and position (anonymously) to a group of network servers that would then figure out traffic and update the GPS software appropriately.

Unfortunately Dash was first to do this and might have patented the idea, so I'm not sure if it can be implemented on the iPhone.

I hope I'm wrong though and that Navigon or Tom Tom add this kind of functionality in the next six months. I would gladly pay an extra $50 for lifetime traffic service if it was useful and truly real time.

 

[mvl]

The smartest way to do traffic with the iPhone would simply be to have the iPhone relay its speed and position (anonymously) to a group of network servers that would then figure out traffic and update the GPS software appropriately.

Unfortunately Dash was first to do this and might have patented the idea, so I'm not sure if it can be implemented on the iPhone.

I hope I'm wrong though and that Navigon or Tom Tom add this kind of functionality in the next six months. I would gladly pay an extra $50 for lifetime traffic service if it was useful and truly real time.

That's part of Tomtom HD traffic, where the devices relay their positions to the servers to provide traffic info. That's already live in the US with Tomtom LIVE traffic. The problem is that there aren't enough Tomtom users to relay enough information to be useful. It was part of the reason dash was doomed.

Cell phone carrier tracking info is the only data-source so far that has the density to pick up most pieces of congestion. If you think of it, even the smallest national cellco will have a phone in 1 in 10 cars in a jam.

But $50 lifetime is unlikely, Tomtom charges $10/month for the HD-traffic service in Europe. For most people, that's a pricier than they'll initially spend, but the ROI is there if you think about your time value of money, when driving in big cities.

 

[JFreak]

If Apple made OS X available for distribution with non Apple hardware at major retailers, it would cannibalize a big chunk of their hardware sales, and their profits.

And that would also make it possible to collect 100% profit for every single OSX copy sold to non-Apple hardware user! Price it at $339 like MS does and it's probably just as much profit, depending how you compare. (For example, a $999 MacBook surely is less profitable).

 

[whmurray]

..........But $50 lifetime is unlikely, Tomtom charges $10/month for the HD-traffic service in Europe. For most people, that's a pricier than they'll initially spend, but the ROI is there if you think about your time value of money, when driving in big cities.

For $10/month AT&T gives me traffic. It also gives me TBT, T2S, lane guidance, and an otherwise full-featured package. As long as you are traveling in a densely populated area, it beats TomTom.

I paid for TomTom and will keep it on my system but I plan to use AT&T until TomTom features catch up.

 

[tivoboy]

done

The smartest way to do traffic with the iPhone would simply be to have the iPhone relay its speed and position (anonymously) to a group of network servers that would then figure out traffic and update the GPS software appropriately.

Unfortunately Dash was first to do this and might have patented the idea, so I'm not sure if it can be implemented on the iPhone.

a number of mobile open source companies are currently doing this, so I dont' think DASH has a lock on it. Also, I think TT is going to use this on their connected device to update RouteIQ

just like this one

http://jkontherun.com/2009/08/25/cr...o-google-maps-except-on-iphone/#comment-66685

 

[lisy.zhen]

not sure