Top range 13" rMBP with 16GB RAM vs Bottom end 15"

[Hammie]

After seven days with my 15" i7 Quad core with 8 GB of RAM, I honestly think it's not an either or proposition. I wish mine had 16 GB of RAM and I'm thinking about returning it while I still can do so. I'm working with VMWare, so there's my issue.

If you're doing video or image editing, 16GB is a no brainer to me and so is Quad core.

what is the issue? what happens? what doesnt work right?

Meister, VMWare drinks memory like its water and considering self-switching GPU nature Intel IGP pulls 512MB-1GB of memory so you're down to subtracting whats remaining after the overhead of OS+IGP there is a tricky balance to make. 8GB of RAM isn't enough if someone runs Windows 7/8 and needs to dedicate more than 4GB of memory to their VM. Give too much memory you'll go into virtual memory territory(excess SSD read/write cycles)

On my old 2010 MBP, I had to do a bit of memory juggling with 8GB and the GeForce 320M(384MB shared memory)



While that is true, some developers on OS X are still dragging their feet to support it or you need to do silly stuff like Adobe CS6 Premiere such as deleting/editing to include GPU name to "cuda_supported_cards.txt" and "opencl_supported_cards.txt"

Running VMware on 8GB can be hell.

For me, I frequently work with several VMs (at least 3 open at the same time) so I need all the RAM I can get. I assigned 6GB to Windows and 2GB to the other two Linux VMs when all of them are running simultaneously.

Yeah, VMWare and Parallels are doing very unnatural and amazing things which (can) travel outside the bounds of the auspices of a laptop, even a 2.8 GHz with 16 GB of RAM.

Mine does okay with VMWARE, especially since I only need to run one copy of Win 7.

It depends on the version of VMWare being used.

I am using VMWare View Client. This runs no local OS and streams a true virtual desktop from the cloud. It uses less memory than Safari (~150MB vs. ~400MB).

If you are running a true local OS and dedicated part of your local RAM to that environment, then yes, 8GB of RAM may be pushing the limits, especially if you also run OS X apps at the same time.

A blanket comment of "VMWare is a memory hog" is not 100% factual.

 

[alphaod]

I've had a complete turn around in my decision making today, I'm think I am going to go with the top end 15" model with the dedicated GPU and get rid of my Hackintosh. Its a big stretch above my initial budget but it's a long term investment and I just can't shake the feeling that getting a dual core CPU and making do with the basic Iris graphics is going to be a mistake long term so I'm just going to bite the bullet.
Going off on a bit of a tangent, I have a Geforce GTX 650 Ti 2GB GPU in my Hackintosh, how does this compare to the 750M in the rMBP, gamings not an issue but for video and photos.
Actually while we're on comparing my current PC spec is
CPU: i5 3570k 3.43Ghz
RAM: 8GB
GPU: Geforce GTX 650 Ti 2GB
SDD: Samsung 840 250GB

How will this compare performance wise to the rMBP, obviously the RAM and SSD are better, and I would assume the i7 CPU is better but then my i5 is a higher clock speed so maybe it wouldn't be so much better?

For any task, your 15" rMBP would be as fast if not faster than your hackintosh.

I think it's a great choice.


As for VMs, I run Windows 7 in one for some Windows only work. I runs fine with just 3GB of RAM and two cores. In fact that's more than enough.

 

[yjchua95]

It depends on the version of VMWare being used.

I am using VMWare View Client. This runs no local OS and streams a true virtual desktop from the cloud. It uses less memory than Safari (~150MB vs. ~400MB).

If you are running a true local OS and dedicated part of your local RAM to that environment, then yes, 8GB of RAM may be pushing the limits, especially if you also run OS X apps at the same time.

A blanket comment of "VMWare is a memory hog" is not 100% factual.

Most people here don't use the Horizon View Client, in fact I'll bet both my balls that 99% of the people here run VMware Fusion with a local Windows vmdk file on their Macs.

It's not 100% factual, but it can be 99% factual here

 

[Meister]

Yeah, VMWare and Parallels are doing very unnatural and amazing things which (can) travel outside the bounds of the auspices of a laptop, even a 2.8 GHz with 16 GB of RAM.

Mine does okay with VMWARE, especially since I only need to run one copy of Win 7.

Interessting. You wrote that you wished you had 16gb. What problems do you encounter with 8gb?

 

[Naimfan]

I'd get the base 15".

 

[andyp350]

I'd get the base 15".

I think performamce wise that would be perfect for me, however as it will now be my main machine I really do want the 512GB storage, my photo library alone is over 100GB and I need this on the Mac and not on an external drive.
After upgrading the base 15 to 512GB the couple of extra hundred for double the RAM, faster CPU and dedicated graphics just seems to be a no brainer. If the base 15" had more storage I would go for it.

 

[RandomCitizen]

Interesting. You wrote that you wished you had 16gb. What problems do you encounter with 8gb?

I run Memory Diag. That being said, I am skeptical of such apps, but this app seems to do what it says it will do. If you use it you will understand where I'm coming from, but I'll do my best to explain.

At the top of the screen bar (never can remember the name) with the little icons, you have a ribbon of icons for different apps running the background. The Memory Diag icon will tell you if your memory is maxed out by showing the icon as all black, instead of half filled or whatever. You can click the icon and dialog drops down with a colorful circle showing you the different types of memory and how they are currently being used up. As long as it is less than full, you can click "optimize" in the middle and the app will take your memory all the way down to it being as if you just started your MBP with no running apps, except for the apps you still have running. It is best used, after you close an app, but I click the darn thing every few minutes for kicks and giggles; I do see it making a difference. If the memory is full you will see a huge exclamation point. At this juncture, the memory cannot be optimized without degradation of the machine's performance. You simply need to close an app and then the "optimize button" will come back.

With all of this being said, when I turn on my VMWare with Win 7, I am immediately confronted with an exclamation point. There's no "if's, and's, or but's, your memory is being fully utilized.

Because of this, I think 16GB is probably essential.

 

[Meister]

I run Memory Diag. That being said, I am skeptical of such apps, but this app seems to do what it says it will do. If you use it you will understand where I'm coming from, but I'll do my best to explain.

At the top of the screen bar (never can remember the name) with the little icons, you have a ribbon of icons for different apps running the background. The Memory Diag icon will tell you if your memory is maxed out by showing the icon as all black, instead of half filled or whatever. You can click the icon and dialog drops down with a colorful circle showing you the different types of memory and how they are currently being used up. As long as it is less than full, you can click "optimize" in the middle and the app will take your memory all the way down to it being as if you just started your MBP with no running apps, except for the apps you still have running. It is best used, after you close an app, but I click the darn thing every few minutes for kicks and giggles; I do see it making a difference. If the memory is full you will see a huge exclamation point. At this juncture, the memory cannot be optimized without degradation of the machine's performance. You simply need to close an app and then the "optimize button" will come back.

With all of this being said, when I turn on my VMWare with Win 7, I am immediately confronted with an exclamation point. There's no "if's, and's, or but's, your memory is being fully utilized.

Because of this, I think 16GB is probably essential.

Interesting. What performance problems do you encounter?

For example:
When I go past what my 8gb can handle the memory pressure in the activity monitor goes red --> beachballs --> apps crash.
When you reach the limits of your ram its pretty obvious.
I dont see why I need anything except activity monitor to notice it.

 

[RandomCitizen]

Interesting. What performance problems do you encounter?

For example:
When I go past what my 8gb can handle the memory pressure in the activity monitor goes red --> beachballs --> apps crash.
When you reach the limits of your ram its pretty obvious.
I dont see why I need anything except activity monitor to notice it.

I never said you needed Memory Diag. I didn't recommend it, I use it.

 

[Naimfan]

I think performamce wise that would be perfect for me, however as it will now be my main machine I really do want the 512GB storage, my photo library alone is over 100GB and I need this on the Mac and not on an external drive.
After upgrading the base 15 to 512GB the couple of extra hundred for double the RAM, faster CPU and dedicated graphics just seems to be a no brainer. If the base 15" had more storage I would go for it.

Well, you can always get a PNY StorEdge 128 GB for ~$75 and put your photo library on it - that's what I've done with about half of my music library.

Having had both 13" and 15" I just don't think the 13" provides enough screen space or scale.

 

[Smeaton1724]

People bang on about all this power, take a step back and look at the whole package.

The 15 offers so much more usable screen space, 1920x1200 is actually workable on the 15, on the 13 1680x1050 is very small, the realistic usable resolution is 1440x900. Massively less resolution and size!

As for space, if it is a primary machine, 512GB minimum - lets face it, you don't want USB drives and SD cards sticking out all the time. A PNY card is a reasonable solution but doesn't allow you to grow. On the plus side you also get faster SSD speeds at 512GB than 256GB.

As for RAM, if running virtual machines and going bootcamp then 8GB is ok, if running vmware or parallels then 16GB is nice and workable, also the dual core doesn't cope that well running 2 OS's at the same time - not as buttery as the quad core 15, for obvious reasons.

The dual cores are great machines, for the vast amount of things people do are fine and would be fine - but taking all of the above in to account you should go the 15 route, the machine 'should' last 5 years easily without being massively out of date. It is well within the realm that within 2 years we have quad core 13's - then you won't have either A. Power (Dual vs Quad). B. Screen real estate.

The only real decision is do you want the 'free' Nvidia 750m or just go Intel only. Personally I'd take the free Nvidia.

 

[andyp350]

People bang on about all this power, take a step back and look at the whole package.

The 15 offers so much more usable screen space, 1920x1200 is actually workable on the 15, on the 13 1680x1050 is very small, the realistic usable resolution is 1440x900. Massively less resolution and size!

As for space, if it is a primary machine, 512GB minimum - lets face it, you don't want USB drives and SD cards sticking out all the time. A PNY card is a reasonable solution but doesn't allow you to grow. On the plus side you also get faster SSD speeds at 512GB than 256GB.

As for RAM, if running virtual machines and going bootcamp then 8GB is ok, if running vmware or parallels then 16GB is nice and workable, also the dual core doesn't cope that well running 2 OS's at the same time - not as buttery as the quad core 15, for obvious reasons.

The dual cores are great machines, for the vast amount of things people do are fine and would be fine - but taking all of the above in to account you should go the 15 route, the machine 'should' last 5 years easily without being massively out of date. It is well within the realm that within 2 years we have quad core 13's - then you won't have either A. Power (Dual vs Quad). B. Screen real estate.

The only real decision is do you want the 'free' Nvidia 750m or just go Intel only. Personally I'd take the free Nvidia.

I agree with all your points. I've decided on the top end 15", I know myself well enough to know I would regret compromising on spec, especially now I've decided to make it my main machine.

 

[Meister]

I never said you needed Memory Diag. I didn't recommend it, I use it.

What problems do you encounter with your 8gb system then?

 

[Smeaton1724]

I agree with all your points. I've decided on the top end 15", I know myself well enough to know I would regret compromising on spec, especially now I've decided to make it my main machine.

I've spent the last 2 years avoiding the 15 just because a part of me thinks £1800 is too much on a laptop. However I have spent that in Mac Minis, retina MacBooks, MBA's, ram, SSD's and a large monitor - once you factor in sales, loss and total outlay.

I'm eagerly awaiting WWDC and hope for a £100 price drop, then I'll hopefully pick up a 2013 refurb 15.

 

[RandomCitizen]

What problems do you encounter with your 8gb system then?

I've explained that several times right here in this thread. I do not have enough memory. 8 GB is not enough, especially for the long haul.

Can I get by with it? Sure, but it'll always irritate me.

I'll say it again to reiterate, if you're running anything regarding graphics or VMWare, you need 16 GB of memory and the Iris Pro with the Nvidia. The Iris Pro alone is just too much of a compromise. The 2012's and February 2013 models are out performing the Haswell with Iris Pro on graphics. A link to some articles

 

[Meister]

I've explained that several times right here in this thread. I do not have enough memory. 8 GB is not enough, especially for the long haul.

You have explained several times that you think that you do not have enough memory.

I am just curious how you know this except that some program shows an exclamation mark.
That initself does not constitute a lack of ram.

You have not explained what problems you encounter because of the missing ram.

Is your macbook unresponsive? Does it beach ball?

I agree that VMs need extra ram. I do not run VMs, but I multitask a lot with hundreds of large raw files, photoshop, lightroom, intensify, da vinci resolve, imovie and the usual suspects like safari and pages. I never run out of memory, but I can if I put my mind to it. Then the lack of memory is very, very obvious. Lag, beach balls, crashes. If this doesn't happen, then you are not running low on ram.

I find it close to impossible to exceed 8gb of memory on a macbook (without the use of VMs)

 

[RandomCitizen]

Lag, lots and lots if lag and beach balls on PDF editing and VMWare. I only get this with VMWare and PDFpen Pro. That's it.

 

[Meister]

Lag, lots and lots if lag and beach balls on PDF editing and VMWare. I only get this with VMWare and PDFpen Pro. That's it.

Sounds like you are low on ram

 

[henry72]

I would go with 15-inch low end, you get

- Bigger screen
- Better speakers
- Quad-core CPU
- Iris "Pro" graphic

Alternatively you can wait for the next specs bump if you're not in a hurry for a laptop

Hope this help

 

[gametime10]

I just moved from a 2012 15" rMBP to a 2013 13" and I'm struck by how much sturdier the 13" feels. Maybe it's my imagination but given the smaller size, it just feels more compact and solid. I think that contributes to the overall portability of the 13 over the 15. No question the 15 is more powerful. But depending on how much you'll be moving around the 13 might be a better experience.

 

[Wahlstrm]

Photoshop is still mostly single-/dual-core

Photoshop uses a lot of ram, when I only had 8 I used to run out of free memory a lot. With 16GB it´s a lot less of an issue even with a few files open.

Second your drive is the main bottleneck, but that is a big non issue with modern macs.

Above i5 dual core you are paying for a few seconds here and there when saving files or applying advanced filters to multiple layers or images.
Most stuff in PS is still only single-core, dual-core and only in a few rare cases true multi-core..

If you make a living using photoshop and a few seconds here and there turns in to weeks per year then you should go for a more expensive processor but otherwise it´s ram and fast diskspace that gives the best bang for your bucks..

 

[RandomCitizen]

And in the insurance business, you find that people are literally so unfocused and a part of the "microwave" society and 10 beach balls in 20 minutes of sitting with me literally is such a distraction to them (and me) that they lose concentration and will even lose interest in your product.