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Wildkraut

Suspended
Nov 8, 2015
3,583
7,673
Germany
You can already side load on Android and Epic is suing Google. Don’t let them fool you, Epic wants higher margins on IAP not App Store democracy.
I know that side loading on Android is possible. What I want multiple AppStores and a general law enforcement for side loading(not only Apple related).

Dear NSA, side loading would simplify few things, side up with Epic. Just for in case a NSA employee reads this.
 

hot-gril

macrumors 68000
Jul 11, 2020
1,924
1,966
Northern California, USA
This rule is not directed to Google or America, it applies to all companies operating in China, why should Google be different? China did not single out Google and ban it.
They singled them out by sponsoring cyberattacks on them seemingly for no reason but to drive out a US competitor. Google was complying with the rules. I wish they were just protesting the law, but that's not how they operate.
 
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hot-gril

macrumors 68000
Jul 11, 2020
1,924
1,966
Northern California, USA
I know that side loading on Android is possible. What I want multiple AppStores and a general law enforcement for side loading(not only Apple related).

Dear NSA, side loading would simplify few things, side up with Epic. Just for in case a NSA employee reads this.
You can sideload on iOS if you use Xcode. Of course, that's more steps.
 

rwxx

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2020
151
187
You can already side load on Android and Epic is suing Google. Don’t let them fool you, Epic wants higher margins on IAP not App Store democracy.

Don't let Apple fool you either. Maintaining their App Store monopoly has nothing to do with security. It's all about that growing "Services" revenue category Wall Street loves so much.

None of these companies are on the side of the consumer. It's all about $$$ for each and every one of them.
 

Unregistered 4U

macrumors G3
Jul 22, 2002
9,928
7,842
Have fun looking forward to Steam, Epic, Origin, PS, and Xbox stores running background services constantly eating up your CPU and RAM just to update games.
You know, I suppose Apple COULD update the iPod touch, remove anything having to do with being a secure OS, like make it unable to access the Apple App Store or use anything like Apple Pay, Messages, iCloud or the iCloud Keychain, ONLY include Wifi and sell that for anyone to install their own App Store onto. That way, anyone that would seriously prefer to play console games on a tiny screen could to so to their heart‘s content. Just sell the hardware at a premium to make up for the loss in services.
 

rwxx

Cancelled
Jun 21, 2020
151
187
You know, I suppose Apple COULD update the iPod touch, remove anything having to do with being a secure OS, like make it unable to access the Apple App Store or use anything like Apple Pay, Messages, iCloud or the iCloud Keychain, ONLY include Wifi and sell that for anyone to install their own App Store onto. That way, anyone that would seriously prefer to play console games on a tiny screen could to so to their heart‘s content. Just sell the hardware at a premium to make up for the loss in services.

But why would they even need to do that? Why not have the same type of security process as macOS has around installing apps? I can use all of the services you mentioned today on my Mac, a platform that allows me to install apps from sources outside the App Store. I don't see a security crisis on the Mac. Do you?

This idea that allowing apps from outside the App Store suddenly wrecks iOS security is ridiculous. Is iOS really that poorly designed that security hangs on the App Store? Hardly. No, the App Store is 95% about the growing "Services" revenue category and 5% (at best) about the security of the platform.
 
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Unregistered 4U

macrumors G3
Jul 22, 2002
9,928
7,842
But why would they even need to do that? Why not have the same type of security process as macOS has around installing apps?
As a separate, more open platform, we can guess that they wouldn’t want to provide any “open” views into the black box security that’s in place. So, they’d remove the T2, secure enclave, everything related to security. Primarily, it would be to ensure that those that want to continue to use the secure iOS ecosystem in it’s current state can do so... completely separate from whatever “free and open” hardware they’d create (Like, you wouldn’t even be able to log into your Apple ID from it).

And, with it being more open, security becomes more of the job of the person that purchases it. There would be a new industry for iOS security apps and configuration hacks, any app store handles it’s own purchases and provides their own level of security.
 

bkaus

macrumors 6502
Sep 26, 2014
311
363
So, if someone builds a private road on private property - they are free to charge whatever they want to access that road. I personally do not see how this is different.
 
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dazed

macrumors 6502a
Jun 23, 2007
911
211
Haha, Epic & Co. will win, and you know it.
Apple will be forced to allow app sideloading like macOS, and both will be forced to introduce something like MS had to do, a browser choice window and default App menu.

Welcome Steam, Epic, Origin, PlayStore,XBox Store on iOS and Android!
I‘m looking forward to it!

I hope so. I’d love to be able to run retro gaming emulators on my iPad as well as enjoy xcloud. I don’t need Apple trying to nanny me. Just Let me install what I want to install, I bought the damn product
 
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OlliFlamme

macrumors 6502
Jan 2, 2018
289
249
Sweden
Roblox offers purchases of robux (some kind of currency to use within their games eco system) on their website and also within their app that is available through the app store on iOS. The first one, obviously, is a direct purchase, whereas the second one is the in app purchase trough Apple.

However, what they don't do is offer the direct purchase of robux inside the app as an alternative to the in-app purchase. You have to know about that yourself, you need to open your account in a browser yourself, you need to go through the user experience there, trough a different process than the obviously easier process of the in-app purchase.

What is total legit here is that they do not mention neither promote the alternative purchase process inside their iOS app, which is totally logical.

What would be wrong by asking Epic to do the same?

I use a physical analogy (not by any means to be 100% valid tho)
Let's say we have a company that makes vacuum cleaners, with an own online store, and offering products through the common network of physical shops and perhaps their own concept / online stores.
You have a chain of electronic shops, and you have a nation wide brand awareness built on years of successfully conceptualising your shops. Imagine that you work with the shop in shop concept, where people are visiting a sales rep of the vacuum cleaners company, demonstrating the amazing sucker of a machine.
Would you then accept that brand's tactics to have their sales reps systematically tell customers that they can buy the same product elsewhere at a better price, or even more concretely: telling them that they can buy it in their own (online)shops?

The fact that you can buy the same stuff elsewhere is not the point of discussion, it is the fact that some apps choose to misuse their app distributed by Apple to promote sales outside of the ecosystem.

As much as I would want to condemn Apple or Google for that matter, for such policies... I simply cannot. And I do not believe that those days are over, as some people in the thread seem to be completely persuaded of.
It's not because these are large companies, with the powers that come along with it, and have their margin as any other company sets a margin, that these are malign. Then you set a double standard: Apple is great for what I want to offer my public, but only if that is on my terms. Sorry... by choosing to offer the app in the App Store, you abide by the terms and conditions stated in your contract. If that may be legal or not, doesn't matter. If that may be morally up to date or not, doesn't matter. Those are matters to be questioned by higher instances - e.g. the US vs Apple, or the EU vs Apple.

Only time will tell whether the legality and morality are indeed questionable. But going about and act by a potential modern standard is foolish to say the least. In fact it may be counter productive to the process at hand, since Apple and Google in this particular case will have the possibility to argument and solidify the current state of affairs.
 

0924487

Cancelled
Aug 17, 2016
2,699
2,808
They singled them out by sponsoring cyberattacks on them seemingly for no reason but to drive out a US competitor. Google was complying with the rules. I wish they were just protesting the law, but that's not how they operate.
They ordered Google via established means to request information under the local legal framework, Google refused. Google violated the law, therefore was disconnected in China.

Just like when you don't pay your power bill, you get disconnected from the grid, but you can't say that you are blocked by the grid.
 

WRChris

macrumors 6502a
Aug 17, 2016
680
949
Indiana
Just a question, doesn’t epic and all other devs agree to the terms where it states you cannot bypass the App Store for purchases? So basically they agreed and now want to show their ass in an attempt to circumvent the terms they agreed to. I’m sure all the children will be devastated they can’t play fortnight. ?
 

hot-gril

macrumors 68000
Jul 11, 2020
1,924
1,966
Northern California, USA
They ordered Google via established means to request information under the local legal framework, Google refused. Google violated the law, therefore was disconnected in China.

Just like when you don't pay your power bill, you get disconnected from the grid, but you can't say that you are blocked by the grid.
Except for the part where China attacked Google for no reason.

Looking again, I don't know if they even violated laws in China, rather they pulled out (after being attacked) and started redirecting to their HK site. Hard to tell given that the Chinese government censored the very fact that Google pulled out, so we can't trust anything they say.

[edit: removed overly PRSI stuff]
 
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0924487

Cancelled
Aug 17, 2016
2,699
2,808
Except for the part where China attacked Google for no reason.

Looking again, I don't know if they even violated laws in China, rather they pulled out (after being attacked) and started redirecting to their HK site. Hard to tell given that the Chinese government censored the very fact that Google pulled out, so we can't trust anything they say.

[edit: removed overly PRSI stuff]
China's military cyber force infatuated Gmail servers of some targeted users. China gave information requests under the law, and Google refused to follow, so China went in by force.

NSA and FBI would do exactly the same. Many of the tactics are invented here in the US.

Remember, the cyberspace is an extension of national sovereignty. NSA as probes on all traffic going through all US submarine fibre optic landing sites and ISPs cannot disclose any of that.
 
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hot-gril

macrumors 68000
Jul 11, 2020
1,924
1,966
Northern California, USA
China's military cyber force infatuated Gmail servers of some targeted users. China gave information requests under the law, and Google refused to follow, so China went in by force.

NSA and FBI would do exactly the same. Many of the tactics are invented here in the US.

Remember, the cyberspace is an extension of national sovereignty. NSA as probes on all traffic going through all US submarine fibre optic landing sites and ISPs cannot disclose any of that.
I can't find anything about China lawfully requesting data from Google about the accounts they hacked (Ai Weiwei for one). They also stole intellectual property. Why would Google bother setting up an entire business in China with the intention of disregarding the laws, which would undoubtedly get them kicked out?

NSA and FBI don't go after people simply for criticizing the US government. This US-China equivalence thing is an often-repeated lame excuse to justify their actions. I'm glad the trade war has finally begun.
 
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