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They are great. Sorry you aren't able to experience them. :p

And my low-end 2017 MacBook Pro 15" is exactly as fast as the high-end on the previous generation:

(Geekbench scores)

MacBook Pro (15-inch Retina Mid 2014)
Intel Core i7-4980HQ @ 2.8 GHz (4 cores)
4352

MacBook Pro (15-inch Mid 2017)
Intel Core i7-7700HQ @ 2.8 GHz (4 cores)
4352

So yes. Empirically they are faster. ;)

Really.

The 2014 2.8 I have scored a 15879; the 2017 2.9 scored a 15433.

Thus: Empirically the 2014 (and presumably the 2015) are as fast, or faster, than the 2017 model.

Hence, you are incorrect. QED. ;)

2014 2.8 MBP.jpg
 
With respect, it is impossible to speculate that it won’t be a necessity. I therefore think it is foolhardy to buy a machine today without USB-C unless you can’t afford it.

To plug into what?

Someone elsewhere pointed out that there are exactly ZERO displays that utilize USB-C.

And Apple and its blind defenders said the exact same thing about Firewire, Firewire 800, Thunderbolt 1, Thunderbolt 2, and now Thunderbolt 3. Apple has been wrong EVERY time.
 
Second, no, it is not "miles better." Outside of graphics, it is no faster than a 2014 2.8, and as a bonus comes with a keyboard that is objectively the worst and least reliable ever released by Apple.

Fixed that for you. Thumbs down on 2017. Hope for a product-improved generation in 2018.
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The 2015 is still a fine machine, on cpu power it’s about on par with the 2016 models, while the 2017 are a little ahead. Only major drawback is the lack of dGPU unless you can snag a refurbed one. Overall the 2017 will be the faster machine, and I don’t think that can be argued with, but I don’t think it’s an enormous, enormous difference given the mixed use you’ve suggested you’ll have for it. One of the uses you mentioned was writing, if you’re going to be doing a lot of typing, then the keyboard on the 2017 is ok, but not ideal, especially for longer bouts of typing (a lot of people report sore fingers) and there is the well documented reliability issue (keys sticking, double pressing or failing).

That's a good analysis. (Which may only mean that I'm agreeing with you, but...I do.)
 
To plug into what?

Someone elsewhere pointed out that there are exactly ZERO displays that utilize USB-C.

And Apple and its blind defenders said the exact same thing about Firewire, Firewire 800, Thunderbolt 1, Thunderbolt 2, and now Thunderbolt 3. Apple has been wrong EVERY time.

I’m sorry you seem to be losing this debate but your really grasping at straws. USB-C is a connector, those examples your giving are external port technologies. You might want to brush up on the differences. Once you do you’ll see that what is happening with USB-C isn’t analogous to what happened with those technologies.
 
I’m sorry you seem to be losing this debate but your really grasping at straws. USB-C is a connector, those examples your giving are external port technologies. You might want to brush up on the differences. Once you do you’ll see that what is happening with USB-C isn’t analogous to what happened with those technologies.

You've already lost - but you don't appear to realize it. ;) USB-C is effectively useless for most users because the overwhelming majority of connections require an adapter/dongle/new cable. For what purpose?

Or are you incapable of admitting Apple was wrong with each of the technologies above?
 
:p
You've already lost - but you don't appear to realize it. ;) USB-C is effectively useless for most users because the overwhelming majority of connections require an adapter/dongle/new cable. For what purpose?

Or are you incapable of admitting Apple was wrong with each of the technologies above?

How does needing an adapter make a connection useless. You aren’t making sense... Sorry bro. :p

Anyways I was referring to not buying a computer with USB-C today and how it would be irresponsible not to. Not sure how your argument... even if it was correct... is relevant in anyway...
 
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You've already lost - but you don't appear to realize it. ;) USB-C is effectively useless for most users because the overwhelming majority of connections require an adapter/dongle/new cable. For what purpose?

Or are you incapable of admitting Apple was wrong with each of the technologies above?

Sales and profits are up since the new MBPs came out. It's only a matter of time before the 2015 model is gone forever and then I guess we will see who has lost. ;)
 
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With respect, it is impossible to speculate that it won’t be a necessity. I therefore think it is foolhardy to buy a machine today without USB-C unless you can’t afford it.
Considering the superlative install base of USB A ports, I think the idea USB A accessories will cease to be made within the next, even 5, years is pretty slim. Most windows computers are still shipping with 2-4 A ports, and maybe one C. iMacs are shipping with A and C ports, 2/5 of Apple laptop lines ship with USB A ports. This isn't going to be a quick transition, it's likely going to be years before the two connectors even reach parity, let alone manufacturers starting to wind down production of USB A accessories.
 
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Just a reaction on the performance comparisons. Geekbench results are synthetic benchmarks. As indicators of actual performance they are flawed. The 2016 and 2017 mbp are significantly faster (eg 15 to 20 % faster in CPU oriented tasks) then previous models. So the 2016 actually brought a performance jump unseen in years for the mbp. This was astonishing when considering its size and weight drop. However not that astonishing when considering general advancements in mobile computing.
 
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Considering the superlative install base of USB A ports, I think the idea USB A accessories will cease to be made within the next, even 5, years is pretty slim. Most windows computers are still shipping with 2-4 A ports, and maybe one C. iMacs are shipping with A and C ports, 2/5 of Apple laptop lines ship with USB A ports. This isn't going to be a quick transition, it's likely going to be years before the two connectors even reach parity, let alone manufacturers starting to wind down production of USB A accessories.

I'm not saying USB-A will cease to be useless. Nor did I even imply that. I just believe USB-C will become necessary quicker then USB-A did. So buying a brand new machine without it is foolhardy to me. Then again I take care of my machines and keep them for 5-7 years.
 
Sales and profits are up since the new MBPs came out. It's only a matter of time before the 2015 model is gone forever and then I guess we will see who has lost. ;)

I am a 2015 hold-out, but I admit that ultimately I am going to have to give up MagSafe, a traditional keyboard, and ports that don't need adapters that are a PITA to carry around. What I want for now, and hopefully it will only take a couple of more years, is Apple to offer me a decent, reliable, usable replacement for my early 2015.

It's actually pretty shocking that the 2016 was not that replacement, and more shocking that the 2017 wasn't, either. I figure I'm probably good until 2019's product cycle if it takes that long. If not, there are lots of other computer makers, and Windows 10 is already surprisingly good OS.
 
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I'm getting a MBP 2017 soon. Thought about the 2015 for a short time, but I need the most power since I do a lot of video editing.
 
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I got myself MBP 2015 maxed out (SG). What stopped me from buying 2017 model was people having issues with the keyboard, the necessity to buy dongles, and TouchBar + TouchId. I am probably loosing ~5% from the maximum compute power I can get, but the risk of keyboard issues and potential lost time are too big
 
I'm not saying USB-A will cease to be useless. Nor did I even imply that. I just believe USB-C will become necessary quicker then USB-A did. So buying a brand new machine without it is foolhardy to me. Then again I take care of my machines and keep them for 5-7 years.
In what way, unless you’re heavily into Thunderbolt accessories, maybe? That’s literally the only way I can see any necessity of having type C connectors any time soon, for everything else the existing ports will be fine for years to come.
 
The screen, the speakers, the silent operation even with a dGPU is why I bought it. After a while I preferred the butterfly keyboard, and the trackpad doesn't have any issues with rejecting my palms. I guess a lot of people bought it without having a proper use for it or felt the price was too steep. Buyers remorse? Not really. As much as I love the old days, I'm not falling for the good old days/nostalgia that hit you as soon as you start to get grey and old.

I may say that the touch bar is still on parole, but I prefer it to the function keys. I only hit it accidentally whenever I use it in bed, you know, it is challenging because of the position. The palm rejection may bother somebody, but I've owned both the 13" and the 15" and none of them has given me any problems. I have hands like Donald Trump, so maybe I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth, and ordered the silver model, since I'm nostalgic in the color section.

The touch bar didn't integrate me as well as the iPhone X did. It took me about an hour or two to prefer the X from the 7. But whenever I use a keyboard without a touch bar, I start looking for it to adjust stuff. I love changing songs and fast forward in Spotify without having to open the application. I don't have to change the layout of my work. The weight and foot print is the icing of the cake, it doesn't do much, but it is better, like you know, it makes it a little lighter, but you know, it is still a 15" laptop.

USB C is starting to catch on, and I am already on the other side. I only use an adapter for my DVD burner, which is as legacy as it gets. I charge my Nintendo Switch with my MacBook Pro charger. I've bought a USB C to lightning cable so I can fast charge my iPhone. I only need to bring a single charger in my bag, and it charges fast.

I feel the iPhone X is getting so good, you may not need to buy another laptop. We are starting to see that laptops are becoming rather stale, and they are having a hard time cooling the extra power that comes from adding more cores to the CPU and more power to the GPUs into the small chassis. I mostly use the iPhone X for most of my stuff, but do the heavy stuff on my Windows 10 Coffee Lake machine. I may plan everything on the iPhone, then I do the plan on my desktop. The screen on the X is so clear and the resolution on it is starting to make me think of reading a book on paper as a step down. My MacBook Pro 2016 may be the last time I buy a laptop as the X is the first fully fledged computer that fits in the pocket of a sports jacket. If I need power, I would rather opt for a desktop, but there are no modular computers from Apple that are in sync with the bleeding of the industry. For school work or business I also prefer using pen and paper, or something like Evernote, Bear on iOS. The iPad is dead, except for kids who know how to navigate in Netflix etc, especially when the iPhone X Plus gets released.
 
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I got myself MBP 2015 maxed out (SG). What stopped me from buying 2017 model was people having issues with the keyboard, the necessity to buy dongles, and TouchBar + TouchId. I am probably loosing ~5% from the maximum compute power I can get, but the risk of keyboard issues and potential lost time are too big
Actually you are ‘loosing’ 20 % in CPU computing power under load (even more GPU power, see eg cinebench tests), dongles would be only necessary for older devices with fixed USB-a connectors (the real problem is that there wont be dongles to connect a usbc device to the 2015 mbp), touchbar perhaps doesn’t add that much - but it certainly doesn’t take away more then it adds, the keyboard ‘issues’ do seem like a subjective point, a lot of people are happy (happier) with the new keyboard.

Just stating this, because there’s a lot of misleading information here on macrumors. There is a serious difference between the 2015 mbp and the later generations, but the difference therefore isn’t huge. The 2015 is still a great performer (be it a noisy one for performance users!).
 
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Actually you are ‘loosing’ 20 % in CPU computing power under load (even more GPU power, see eg cinebench tests), dongles would be only necessary for older devices with fixed USB-a connectors (the real problem is that there wont be dongles to connect a usbc device to the 2015 mbp), touchbar perhaps doesn’t add that much - but it certainly doesn’t take away more then it adds, the keyboard ‘issues’ do seem like a subjective point, a lot of people are happy (happier) with the new keyboard.

Just stating this, because there’s a lot of misleading information here on macrumors. There is a serious difference between the 2015 mbp and the later generations, but the difference therefore isn’t huge. The 2015 is still a great performer (be it a noisy one for performance users!).
15600/14400 is 1.08. I leave some small advantage on the previews gen because it probably has better cooling because of the size. I don't care about the GPU. In 1/2 of the youtube reviews I watched the reviewer already replaced his macbook because of a keyboard issues. A potential keyboard issue and waiting for a replacement will certainly cost me more than the machine itself. Also, I really do not want TouchId on a laptop. Same with the Touchbar - I will never use it. The decision was quite obvious for me, but everybody is different and has different needs.
 
15600/14400 is 1.08. I leave some small advantage on the previews gen because it probably has better cooling because of the size. I don't care about the GPU. In 1/2 of the youtube reviews I watched the reviewer already replaced his macbook because of a keyboard issues. A potential keyboard issue and waiting for a replacement will certainly cost me more than the machine itself. Also, I really do not want TouchId on a laptop. Same with the Touchbar - I will never use it. The decision was quite obvious for me, but everybody is different and has different needs.
Geekbench results are really flawed when considering actual performance, certainly so for mobile devices with their thermal constraints. Thats why real world usage or benchmarks should be used as indicators. I referred to this a little higher in this tread. The 20 % higher performance is about the maxed out verslons when comparing their CPU performance under load, and its a rather moderate estimation. I can’t comment on the keyboard issues, not seeing them myself, and not being aware of known major issues.
 
B&H has several hundred MBPs. Which EXACT two models are you debating between? Knowing the exact 2017 model and the exact 2015 model would help make a comparison between the two. Presumably, if the 2015 is priced the same as the 2017, that 2015 model presumably has a much larger hard drive, the top-tier 2.8 GHz i7 or the high tier 2.5 GHz i7, and the M370X dGPU.

For example, here is a 2016 MBP15 that is $600 off. This is a stupid good sale, even though it isn't the 2017 model you are considering https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1293726-REG/apple_mlh32ll_a_15_4_macbook_pro_with.html

Comparatively speaking, the base model 2015 is about the same price, and it lacks a dGPU.
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1151713-REG/apple_mjlq2ll_a_15_4_macbook_pro_notebook.html
 
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