trackpad keyboard for iPad Pro

Discussion in 'iPad' started by dol-phin-iru, Jun 24, 2016.

  1. dol-phin-iru macrumors newbie

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    #1
    I feel more and more envy towards surface pro owners but i have even stronger feelings towards Apple for short-changing the "Pro" iPad. It would be such an IDEAL device, and a TRUE work machine if we had the same keyboard/trackpad layout we are so used to in our macbooks. As it stands, iPad Pro is a fabulous toy which stays home with my 4 and 7 year old ones to enjoy.

    True its not as simple as just adding a trackpad, but Apple has the best talent and the most cash, so don't tell me it can't be done. Simply, I know developers at Apple are crying to get this done but the company grew too big and is unable to move, collapsing under its own enormity.

    There is nothing to lose, any cannibalized macbook sales would be made up 10 fold in REAL iPad Pro sales. Makes business sense, loyal Apple customers deserve it. What am I missing?
     
  2. jamesrick80 macrumors 68020

    jamesrick80

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    #2
    This is one of the main reasons some of my friends have stayed away ftom the larger pro model. If it has trackpad or mouse support, they would be willing to transition. Also, a easy to use file manager would help the workflow too. But "pro" means nothing to apple especially since the higher spec version of the iphone 7 releasing this year may have that in its name.
     
  3. bensisko macrumors 65816

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    #3
    For starters, the point of the iPad.

    The iPad is not meant to be a laptop, the method of input is touch (and stylus on the Pro). Could Apple do it? Sure. I highly doubt the worry is cannibalizing MacBook sales - I think the bigger concern is how it would affect the development of apps, usage of devices, etc. Apple has to look at the bigger picture and the bigger picture isn't turning the iPad into a Laptop.

    Also, Pro is just a product name - nothing more, nothing less.
     
  4. Ludatyk macrumors 65816

    Ludatyk

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    #4
    Adding trackpad support to the iPad is the same as asking for touch support through MacBooks.

    Although it would be welcoming to have trackpad support... The iPad have tons of "tablet-optimized" apps that Surface Pro owners envy.

    There's envy on both sides of the fence... It just what you value most that counts.
     
  5. dol-phin-iru thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #5
    Thanks for your thoughts, it's good to see the various view points on this iPad Pro-trackpad matter.

    Development of apps should not be affected. Only those that are typically used with a trackpad would need some tweaking, primarily web browsers and office apps to name a few. This is not about turning Ipad into a laptop, its simply to give it an OPTIONAL interface which a LOT of people would find EXTREMELY useful. Pro is not just a product name, it has a clear connotation and expectation to it.

    PS. if the input method was meant to be purely touch/stylus then why did they even develop a keyboard in the first place?
    --- Post Merged, Jun 24, 2016 ---
    Agree, the grass is always greener on the other side... what hurts me (and it seems a lot of people as well) is that the iPad Pro is such a great device that it seems like a waste not to give it a full range of accessories to work with. Just like not everyone is buying an apple pencil, not everyone has to buy a trackpad keyboard. But it's nice to have options.
     
  6. sracer macrumors 604

    sracer

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    #6
    I own both a 12.9 iPad Pro and a Surface. FOR ME, the iPad Pro is closer to the convergence "sweet spot" between notebook and tablet, though it clearly falls on the "tablet side" of the divide. The Surface, falls on the notebook side but is far more of a notebook than a tablet.

    One thing to keep in mind is that from day-1 Apple not only supported hardware keyboards, they even produced one. On the first day of availability, I owned an iPad 1 and iPad keyboard dock. They have always understood the need for peripherals. For a variety of reasons they have held off on a stylus until recently and still hold off on pointing devices. But I do believe that it is coming.

    In the meantime, the iPP + ASK make a very nice and extremely mobile solution. This week I received a Citrix X1 mouse for use with Jump Desktop so that when I'm out and about I can remote into my iMac at my home office and use the keyboard and mouse. It is a fantastic experience and gives a taste of what things might feel like when Apple provides support iOS-wide.

    You can read about it in more detail here.
     
  7. bensisko macrumors 65816

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    #7
    "Pro" IS just a product name - people get FAR too hung up on it. It doesn't mean anything except that there are more features than a standard iPad. There is NO "clear connotation and expectation" for something termed "Pro". How do I know? Because everybody expects something different. For you, it's a trackpad. For others it's file management. Still others won't be happy until they come out with an iPad running OS X. There isn't one definition that people agree on - it's just give people an avenue to complain about how "it's not 'pro' because it's missing feature ________".

    Development of apps would TOTALLY be affected - you would start seeing apps that require a trackpad. Proof? Sure - how about the whole mess with the Apple TV and the Gamepad? While many apps will remain touch, you'll soon start to see app (or features within apps) that require a trackpad.

    What about keyboards? Of course they allow external keyboards - there's really no other practical way of getting text into the system. Someday Voice and Handwriting recognition will take their rightful place to replace the keyboard, but not yet. If either were more practical and/or efficient, then maybe we will start to question the need for keyboards.

    The point being, iOS was built for touch. Why don't they built touch into macOS? Because it wasn't built for touch and it would be a massive undertaking to redesign the OS for touch - not that it can't be done, but they've already built an OS designed around using touch - iOS.
     
  8. username: macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    Well I have seen a few reviews from artists saying the iPad Pro and pencil is one of if not the best digital stylus experiences, so I think it does deserve the pro name in that way. As it is competing with the whole Wacom product line and beating them
     
  9. Night Spring macrumors G5

    Night Spring

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    #9
    Totally agree with this. To take the example of AppleTV, while Apple forced app developers to make all apps compatible with the included AppleTV remote, apps designed with game controllers in mind totally sucked when used with the AppleTV remote. You could kind of play the game with the remote, but it wasn't optimized for it. I'm afraid if Apple adds trackpad support to iOS, that'll happen too, where apps become barely usable without a trackpad.
     
  10. upritbass macrumors member

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    #10
    Why does this keep coming up? *sigh*

    1) The iPP _is_ the trackpad
    2) The virtual keyboard also has trackpad capability
     
  11. sracer macrumors 604

    sracer

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    #11
    It keeps coming up because there is a growing demand for it. The same way that people demanded an iPad Mini. The same way people demanded an active stylus. And I suspect the response by the nay-sayers will be the same... against it when Apple doesn't provide it, gets on-board afterwards. The very same people who said, "nobody needs a stylus", "your finger is the stylus!!" BEFORE Apple announced the Apple Pencil are now saying that the Apple Pencil is a great option. LOL

    Then there were the silly folks who claimed that the rMB was actually the "iPad Pro".

    The virtual keyboard DOES NOT have full-screen trackpad capability...only within a single text edit box. It doesn't work with graphical components at all. It works good for what it does but doesn't replace a physical high-resolution pointing device.

    People like to claim that introducing support for a mouse will lead down the slippery slope of requiring it. Android has natively supported mice for years and there was no slippery slope there. What is unique about iOS that would cause the results to be different? Apple has supported a physical keyboard from day-1 and yet there is no app that requires key combinations that are only possible with a physical keyboard.

    I've used mice on iPads since the beginning, via jailbreak solution. It in no way interfered with the use of touch.
     
  12. sdwaltz macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    Agreed completely.

    I love my 12.9 Pro, but the icing on the cake would be mouse support. It's replaced my Macbook Pro for most uses, but would likely replace it full-time if mouse support were added. A mouse would be SO incredibly helpful for working with spreadsheets, word processors, and messing around in Safari.
     
  13. xaqt93 macrumors 6502

    xaqt93

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    #13
    Your not missing anything at all. I have the smaller iPad Pro and would freaking love a mouse. I use it everyday for the most part...my kids aren't allowed to touch my pro. If I had a mouse, it would make things like spreadsheets so freaking awesome.
     
  14. Night Spring macrumors G5

    Night Spring

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    #14
    How would you use a mouse in Safari?
     
  15. sdwaltz macrumors 6502a

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    #15
    By clicking on links and scrolling down pages with a click wheel/touchpad, rather than using my fingers for everything?

    It should be noted that I'm using the Logitech Create Keyboard.
     
  16. Night Spring macrumors G5

    Night Spring

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    #16
    I can see how someone might do this once in a while, if they are, say, working on a document in Word and pops over to Safari to quickly check something. But for me, the best part about iPad and Safari is relaxing with the iPad in my lap, without any keyboard, and doing the tapping and scrolling with my fingers. It just feels much more intuitive than doing it through a trackpad, mouse, or other pointing device. I suppose everyone is different, but I just have a hard time understanding why you would even want a tablet if you don't like using your fingers to interact with it.
     
  17. lagwagon Suspended

    lagwagon

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    #17
    It hasn't interfered with the use of touch because app developers don't develope their apps around jailbreak tweaks....
     
  18. upritbass macrumors member

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    #18
    And yet the title of this thread is 'Trackpad,' not 'Mouse.'
    --- Post Merged, Jun 24, 2016 ---
    Wait, don't you have to use your finger on a touchpad?
     
  19. dol-phin-iru thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #19
    I also have a hard time understanding why having OPTIONS of PERIPHERAL devices is such a hard thing to cope with.

    I love my iPad Pro and like you, enjoy it a lot for play, with no keyboard, watching movies, photos, playing games, etc. HOWEVER its a PRO device not just a toy and if I want to use it with work apps I want to have the option of an input device that gives me the same feel I'm used to on a macbook.

    No need to redesign the iPad, no need to redesign iOS, just build in support for a trackpad keyboard in the apps that require it the most (in my case MS office) but of course Safari would be good too. MS built in support for the apple pencil, so I'm guessing in the same way it can build in support for a trackpad (which the full original version does anyways).

    BTW I'm expecting not just a trackpad but a 3D touch state of the art full bells and whistles device from Apple, with a proper Apple Pencil holder of course!!!
    --- Post Merged, Jul 7, 2016 ---
    I could not agree more with this point and really find your posts very helpful (I looked into the jump desktop idea, etc.)
    If people want a keyboard with a cupholder/pinwheel/ashtray and Apple makes one, more power to them and more sales for Apple, no need to redesign iPP, just offer better/more peripherals.

    The trackpad keyboard fro iPP is not a technological problem, it really boils down to not cannibalizing macbook sales. One thing to consider is that MacBooks have plateaued in terms of processing power/ screen resolution.

    My rMB from 3 years ago still serves me 100% well and do not plan to buy another as long as it works. My only Apple dollars are for new iPhones and for the trackpad keyboard that is a matter of when not if.
     
  20. Night Spring, Jul 7, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016

    Night Spring macrumors G5

    Night Spring

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    #20
    I can understand wanting a trackpad for when you are typing from a keyboard. But you had mentioned wanting to use a trackpad while using Safari, and I was asking you why you would want a trackpad when browsing, which I think is a lot nicer with a touch interface than with keyboard/trackpad, and that's where I got the impression that you didn't want to touch the iPad screen AT All, if possible. So I was like, "If you don't even want to use a touch screen, why get a tablet?" I'm sorry if I got the wrong impression.

    As for why people decry certain features only to praise it when Apple does implement it, I think it's because Apple usually does it in a way that puts the naysayers concerns to rest. Like people were skeptical about Apple doing a stylus, because the user experience with existing stylus wasn't great. Then Apple comes out with the Pencil, which works a lot better, and people are happy with THAT.

    And yes, there are also things like the file system, where, yes, a better file system would be good. But then people make it sound like the iPad is totally unusable without one, then those of us who manage to use our iPads productively even with the limited file system feel compelled to point out that it's not as bad as all that. Then when Apple does improve the file system, it might seem like we changed our minds and are now praising the improvements, when we haven't really changed our minds, we were just saying the old system did work for us, but the new system is better.
     
  21. xraydoc macrumors 604

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    #21
    iPad Pro plus trackpad = MacBook

    Adding a mouse pointer to iOS would add a layer of complexity to apps that isn't needed. Now not only will items be clickable versus tappable, but now there's a hover-over UI element that can't be replicated with a finger. What items show additional information when hovering? How is this discoverable? Will a user have a substandard experience when using an app that has different functionality with hover versus tap versus tap and hold versus force touch? There's already too much hidden function with force touch on the iPhone 6S line (you don't know something has force touch until someone tells you or until you try each and every UI element of an app). Adding mouse hover, right-click and et cetera would overly complicate the iOS UI. The iOS UI needs to operate in a predictable manner.

    Need a UI paradigm where everything is pointer-based and operates in its own predictable manner, use a MacBook. Virtually the same size as an iPP.

    And, FYI, if you're looking for cursor control with text selection, two fingers on the iPad Pro's on-screen keyboard will do that (two finger slide to move, two finger tap and slide to select).
     
  22. sracer macrumors 604

    sracer

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    #22
    No. iPad Pro = iOS, Macbook = OSX, iOS <> OSX. Not only are the user interfaces optimized differently, the workflows are different as well.


    Not true. Android has had support for mice for years and there is no "layer of complexity". There has been mouse support for iPads since the first jailbreak. There was/is no "layer of complexity". It works.



    Not everything needs to be pointer-based. Again, Android easily switches between touch and mouse. When a mouse is detected, the pointer appears and you can use it. If after detecting the mouse, it is not moved but the screen is touched, the mouse pointer disappears and you use the tablet in touch mode.

    Samsung developed a method of split-window on tablets years before Apple introduced it with iOS 9.x (and before Google officially introduced it). It worked extremely well, even with meager hardware. Apple's implementation is virtually identical except that it is limited to left-right side-by-side windows where Samsung's implementation can also do top-bottom.

    If Samsung and Google can implement things like optional support for mice and multi-window multitasking well, then Apple could too.

    You correctly qualified that recommendation to "cursor control within text". That is not the same as mouse support and it (two-finger tap-n-slide) is rendered ineffective with the Apple Smart Keyboard. When using the ASK there is no easy and direct way to do that... using cursor keys to navigate within a text edit box is not very efficient.

    I understand the great resistance to the optional use of a mouse. The same thing happened with physical keyboards. Some people became emotionally unhinged at those who would want to use a physical keyboard with the iPad. The same happened regarding split-window multitasking and active stylus.
     
  23. Night Spring macrumors G5

    Night Spring

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    #23
    When did that happen? Considering that physical keyboard support for iPad was there from the very first iPad (Apple even built and sold a keyboard dock accessory), I find it hard to believe that people had time to get unhinged over the concept.
     
  24. xraydoc, Jul 7, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2016

    xraydoc macrumors 604

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    #24
    I even still have the original keyboard dock for the iPad with its 30-pin connector set for portrait display. Loved it.

    Edit: Still works, by the way, with a 30-pin to Lightning adapter.
     
  25. bensisko macrumors 65816

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    #25
    Just because they can doesn't mean they should.
    I have no doubt Apple has the technical expertise to add anything they, or anybody else, desired - doesn't mean they should build it into the product.

    Yes, Android has supported mice for years. Fine. Android is an operating system meant to operate many different types of devices, not just phones and tablets. That's why they built in a ton of stuff (like file management and mouse support). iOS doesn't need to support many different types of devices by many different manufacturers.

    It's also why Android is a gigantic resource hog (I'm not saying a single individual feature is, but all of those things add up).
     

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