Training/Workout Diet...

[acearchie]

I don't really want to sign up to a fitness forum just for one post so I was wondering if there were any other "keen to get fit" members out there who could help me out.

I am running 4 times a week and doing a home workout 4 times as well.

I'm looking at altering my diet so I can gain some muscle and have enough energy to sustain the extra exercise.

However, I am a student and therefore don't really have a budget for cashing out on expensive fish and steaks every night of the week so I was wondering if anyone had any tips for getting that added protein?

So far I have dumped crisps as a snack and opted for fat free yoghurt. A small bowl of tinned tuna and mayo is also another option.

Any suggested meals or any advice at all would be great!

I'm aiming to try and get a better looking body but also run my first marathon next year.

Thanks for the help!

 

[wpotere]

Great thread! I am an avid gym rat at 42 and I have recently altered my diet so that I can shred some weight.

My first question to you is: what are your goals?

Are you trying to lose weight, gain muscle mass or both? The reason for this is that it does affect the answer to some degree. (oops, just saw the marathon bit... )

I spent 2 years lifting with minimal (2 x per week) on cardio. I am now lifting 245 for my regular workout but I still weight 225 at 6'1". I recently decided to change my diet to shred the belly fat. In the morning I usually have a cup of oatmeal and some yogurt (Chobani greek stuff) followed by a Casein protein shake (Optimum Nutrition). Around 9 I have a piece of fruit and then at lunch a salad or even something heavier depending on my location. Then about 3 it is more fruit or a yogurt and for dinner it will be a salad or something light. My salads usually have chicken and nuts on them so they are filling. Lastly is a small shake of Casein before bed to continue burning fat...

I also have my workout stack which consists of:

OptiMen Vitamins (3 x a day)
USPLabs Pink Magic (as directed)
USPLabs Prime (as directed)
Optimum Nutrition BCAA (amino acids as directed)
Fishoil (three times a day)

After workout I have a whey protein shake to replenish the muscles and keep the soreness down.

I am never really hungry and within the last week I have dropped 12 pounds. The biggest trick is to eat "clean". This means that any processed food does not enter your mouth and you have to cut the treats as well. You can cheat ever now and then but understand that you will need to work a little harder to get it out.

So, this gives you a little understanding of what I am currently doing but the most important advice I can give you is to listen to your body. Most people don't even realized when a food they have eaten is causing them issues (bloating, gas, upset stomach etc...) and those signs are helpful to you to keep that food out of your system.

Post up some more info on your goals and I would be more than happy to help you out.

 

[acearchie]

Thanks for sharing!

Saw you have quite a few supplements, I'm trying to get everything I need naturally as the supplement costs can add up! Unfortunately I haven't really got the budget for a gym membership so unfortunately can't really get access to any weights so I'm trying some exercises involving lifting my own body weight.

Since you have shared at last count I think I was 195lbs/88kg at 6"1/186cm.

Ideally I would like to add on a bit of weight and turn it into muscle whilst also keeping my cardio strong as my running is doing quite well at the moment (running sub 40min for 8km) and I would like to get that lower.

 

[Liquorpuki]

If you want to gain muscle mass cheaply, the easiest thing to do is just go buy a tub of whey protein. Get a weight regimen together, lift until muscle failure, drink a protein shake a few hours before bedtime, and get enough rest for your body to rebuild. I also found Glutamine helps keep your body from going catabolic (IE feeling dead the next day because you worked out too hard).

If you're training for a marathon though, the added bulk would slow you down. Good luck though

 

[wpotere]

With marathon running you are going to want to stay lean if you are being competitive, so I would avoid muscle mass. That was why I asked what your plans were. I do use a lot of supplements but I didn't start that way. The pink magic and prime help to create dense muscle mass and work well, but are not required get muscles. You can do a lot of it without supplements and add them if you feel they are needed.

To start working towards a marathon I would start with distance running as well as sprints and heavy core training. You are going to need lots of carbs in your diet as well as you will be burning a ton of calories. Lastly, don't go cheap on shoes, you will need good ones that will need to be replaced often depending on your training. I found this site which has some good advice.

http://www.marathonrookie.com/marathon-training.html

Whey protein is good stuff but it burns out of your system fast (45 min). This is why it is a good post workout protein. However, you may not want to go that route if you are going to be a runner. You have to train for your sport.

If you are looking for a more rounded look, you may want to combine lifting with running. I have a fused left ankle so I can't really "run" but I can do the elliptical machine which I do 3 - 4 times a week at 5 miles (45 min). It is helping me to shred the fat.

 

[leekohler]

If you want to gain muscle mass cheaply, the easiest thing to do is just go buy a tub of whey protein. Get a weight regimen together, lift until muscle failure, drink a protein shake a few hours before bedtime, and get enough rest for your body to rebuild. I also found Glutamine helps keep your body from going anabolic (IE feeling dead the next day because you worked out too hard).

If you're training for a marathon though, the added bulk would slow you down. Good luck though

Agreed on most point- however, drink the protein shake ASAP after a workout, and lifting to failure is not necessary either.

 

[maflynn]

I'm aiming to try and get a better looking body but also run my first marathon next year.

Thanks for the help!

There's a reason why those Kenyans always win the marathon races - they're thin as a rail. Muscle mass increases the work the body has to do to carry itself for 26 miles. While I applaud your desire to improve your body. I prefer conditioning my body for longer runs then increasing muscle mass - that's just me though.

I generally run about 5 to 7 days a week, and now that the warm weather has finally arrived I shoot for a short run of 4 miles and a long run from 6 to 10 miles. I'm not quite up to the 10 mile mark yet, I'll be there hopefully in a couple of week.

Good luck and enjoy

 

[wpotere]

Agreed on most point- however, drink the protein shake ASAP after a workout, and lifting to failure is not necessary either.

Exactly.... That being said, it does depend on what you are trying to do. I am still bulking up, so I tend to lift fewer reps with heavier weight.

 

[Liquorpuki]

Agreed on most point- however, drink the protein shake ASAP after a workout, and lifting to failure is not necessary either.

Correction: I meant catabolic, not anabolic

I think it's just best to have protein in your system sometime before sleeping, because that's when your body rebuilds. When I started working out I didn't know anything about protein so I'd be destroying my muscles and the next day I'd be running around feeling like crap because my body didn't have enough protein to rebuild and was in a catabolic state. The protein fixed this and even though it's debatable, I think the Glutamine helped with my energy level.

And lifting to muscle failure is not necessary but I found it produced the best results. You're pretty much destroying your muscles when weight training and rebuilding them during sleep. My logic is, if you're gonna destroy them, might as well go all the way. Of course, it's pretty much impossible to do unless you have a lifting partner.

 

[rk1228]

BTW - I checked out your YouTube page and I think it's great! I appreciate your humor.

You're at a great height and weight right now. So, here are my 2 cents:

Adding muscle and running a marathon are great goals. While the training for one is different than the other, you don't have to make huge changes to make progress on both goals. Plus, training is a progressive thing -- once you master the first steps and see some results, you'll want to go to the next level.

At your age just making a few changes to your training and diet will give you good results. I like to stick with basic compound movements in the gym. If you don't have a gym membership, you can get a great workout just using your own bodyweight. Keeping your rest time short between exercises will help with stamina. Lifting heavy will give you muscle size, lifting lighter with more reps will give you muscle definition. For starters, just lift enough weight so your muscles are sore the next day. As long as you can maintain that feeling, you'll grow. Change up your lifting routine every 6 weeks or so. I like a push/pull split the best.

Supplements are great, but when money is a factor, just make the best choices you can when you buy food. I like to keep protein and fibros carbs high (chicken, tuna, lean red meat, broccoli, etc.) and eat more often, 4 or 5 times a day. The protein shake after workouts counts as a meal.

All whey proteins are not the same! I like a multi-species product (not just dairy whey). After workout is the best time to drink it, but if you drink more than one, before bed is also good because your body makes good use of it when you are at rest.

If you can afford other supplements, I like an NO/HMB/Creatine compound, and L-Glutamine. Both have been around for a long time and you can get good ones that are not expensive.

You said you didn't want to join a fitness forum just for this question, but I'd encourage you to give it a try. I have a profile at bodybuilding.com and think it's good. There are people there at all fitness levels and there is a lot of good information about training and supplements - it's also a great site for inspiration. You can probably even find guys your age in your area.

I hope you have a lot of success with both your goals -- and keep making the great videos! Good Luck!

 

[4JNA]

eat smart, work hard, stay committed.

agree with most of what i've read above. my two cents...

i don't think supplements are necessary if you are eating the correct foods. if i had to choose, i'd skip the additives and stick to quality food.

muscle is made out of work and protein. lots of good sources for protein like nuts, meat, dairy, etc. almonds and peanut butter are two excellent sources. peanut butter on flat bread or rice cakes is an awesome way to get protein and stay full at the same time.

after a hard run or workout, there is no better 'recovery drink' than a big glass of chocolate milk. protein, carbs, antioxidants, and tastes damn good!

now to change the subject, what ever happened to the MR nike+ challenges and all the runners that used to be around? would be fun to start that again, or start a forum running thread/challenge again. just ran a half (13,1) this last weekend. 1:52 and change, not to bad for an old guy like me! best of luck.

 

[wpotere]

agree with most of what i've read above. my two cents...

i don't think supplements are necessary if you are eating the correct foods. if i had to choose, i'd skip the additives and stick to quality food.

muscle is made out of work and protein. lots of good sources for protein like nuts, meat, dairy, etc. almonds and peanut butter are two excellent sources. peanut butter on flat bread or rice cakes is an awesome way to get protein and stay full at the same time.

after a hard run or workout, there is no better 'recovery drink' than a big glass of chocolate milk. protein, carbs, antioxidants, and tastes damn good!

It depends on what your goals are. If you are trying to build muscle mass and like me are up in age, supplements are kind of a necessity, especially a good multi vitamin. As for the chocolate milk, no way... Too much sugar and fat. If you are a runner you are burning a lot of calories, but us folks that are lifting don't burn as much and eating clean becomes extremely important.

 

[bearbear]

I highly, highly suggest you register on a fitness forum and read more there. There are many things wrong with some of these posts and you would be starting off on the wrong foot for sure.

 

[wpotere]

I highly, highly suggest you register on a fitness forum and read more there. There are many things wrong with some of these posts and you would be starting off on the wrong foot for sure.

Care to point out what is wrong? I have been lifting for well over 5 years and have been eating clean for over 2 and have gotten fabulous results. On top of that, I have gotten a clean bill of health from my doctor (yes, I monitor my health as well). Just curious what you think is wrong and it would be nice if you pointed it out rather than come on here and make bold such a bold remark.

 

[wpotere]

after a hard run or workout, there is no better 'recovery drink' than a big glass of chocolate milk. protein, carbs, antioxidants, and tastes damn good!

I stand corrected sir.... I spoke to a few of my friends that are trainers and they regularly recommend choco milk. I never considered it as I am lactose intolerant so it wasn't on my radar. It is a great solution for people that want recovery on the cheap!

I constantly learn new things when doing this.

 

[acearchie]

I think it's just best to have protein in your system sometime before sleeping, because that's when your body rebuilds. When I started working out I didn't know anything about protein so I'd be destroying my muscles and the next day I'd be running around feeling like crap because my body didn't have enough protein to rebuild and was in a catabolic state. The protein fixed this and even though it's debatable, I think the Glutamine helped with my energy level.

Taken on board. I am planning to have a tin of tuna (~30g protein) with some mayo and toasted seeds (~7g of protein/25g) an hour or so before sleeping. Is this the sort of idea?

And lifting to muscle failure is not necessary but I found it produced the best results. You're pretty much destroying your muscles when weight training and rebuilding them during sleep. My logic is, if you're gonna destroy them, might as well go all the way. Of course, it's pretty much impossible to do unless you have a lifting partner.

Probably the most strenuous muscle workouts I do is pressups and chinups. I do the pressups before the run and do the chin ups on a gate outside where I live when I have finished. I do 4 sets of the pressups and 3 of the chin ups. Is this alright?

BTW - I checked out your YouTube page and I think it's great! I appreciate your humor.

You're at a great height and weight right now. So, here are my 2 cents:

Adding muscle and running a marathon are great goals. While the training for one is different than the other, you don't have to make huge changes to make progress on both goals. Plus, training is a progressive thing -- once you master the first steps and see some results, you'll want to go to the next level.

At your age just making a few changes to your training and diet will give you good results. I like to stick with basic compound movements in the gym. If you don't have a gym membership, you can get a great workout just using your own bodyweight. Keeping your rest time short between exercises will help with stamina. Lifting heavy will give you muscle size, lifting lighter with more reps will give you muscle definition. For starters, just lift enough weight so your muscles are sore the next day. As long as you can maintain that feeling, you'll grow. Change up your lifting routine every 6 weeks or so. I like a push/pull split the best.

Supplements are great, but when money is a factor, just make the best choices you can when you buy food. I like to keep protein and fibros carbs high (chicken, tuna, lean red meat, broccoli, etc.) and eat more often, 4 or 5 times a day. The protein shake after workouts counts as a meal.

All whey proteins are not the same! I like a multi-species product (not just dairy whey). After workout is the best time to drink it, but if you drink more than one, before bed is also good because your body makes good use of it when you are at rest.

If you can afford other supplements, I like an NO/HMB/Creatine compound, and L-Glutamine. Both have been around for a long time and you can get good ones that are not expensive.

You said you didn't want to join a fitness forum just for this question, but I'd encourage you to give it a try. I have a profile at bodybuilding.com and think it's good. There are people there at all fitness levels and there is a lot of good information about training and supplements - it's also a great site for inspiration. You can probably even find guys your age in your area.

I hope you have a lot of success with both your goals -- and keep making the great videos! Good Luck!

Just wanted to say thanks for the great help! Probably the most useful post (for me at least!) so far. I maybe biased as you liked my videos!

after a hard run or workout, there is no better 'recovery drink' than a big glass of chocolate milk. protein, carbs, antioxidants, and tastes damn good!

Thanks for the tips. Sounds much cheaper and more accessible than the protein shakes etc. I'll pop down sainsbury's later and see what I can pick up. Is there a difference between pure bottled chocolate milk and the powder that you add to milk?

now to change the subject, what ever happened to the MR nike+ challenges and all the runners that used to be around? would be fun to start that again, or start a forum running thread/challenge again. just ran a half (13,1) this last weekend. 1:52 and change, not to bad for an old guy like me! best of luck.

I'd be keen to do this. Dusted off my old Nike+ iPod Nano kit but the batteries dead so I'll have to get a new one. Since I've been running my 8km a day I have been using MapMyRun to check my speeds and keep a log.

Another question I have is how do you guys monitor your body change? I realise that if I had a gym membership I could see if I could lift the weight up etc. but since I am just working from home I'm not sure if I am seeing any change in the mirror (of course it is unlikely to differ on a day to day basis).

For the runs it's much easier as I have gone from 5:17/km down to 4:39/km over 8km.

Thanks so much for the positive help guys!

 

[KnightWRX]

If you want to gain muscle mass cheaply, the easiest thing to do is just go buy a tub of whey protein.

Bad advice. Tubs of whey protein are overpriced. Go to the grocery store and just buy powdered milk. Same thing as the "whey protein" tubs (because they are the same protein!) and about 1/3 the price per pound if you absolutely have to have powdered protein.

Best to just eat eggs/drink milk (the chocolat milk advice was best).

. peanut butter on flat bread or rice cakes is an awesome way to get protein and stay full at the same time.

I have found that peanut butter has very low amounts of protein, unless you gobble the stuff down, which would result in a high fat/calorie intake. 4G of protein to 90 calories. 1% milk or chocolate milk has 9G of protein to 100 calories and very low fat compared to it.

 

[wpotere]

I would be careful about eating a lot of tuna due to the high mercury content. At 150 + lbs the recommended for Albacore is one can every 9 days and for chunked light it is like 3 days. Frankly I think that you can find protein in other areas (eggs, chicken etc...).

Whey is expensive, but it tastes a lot better than powdered milk. Still, you can see that there are other ways to get what you need. I didn't start using supplements until about a year ago and only because I have crap eating habits form time to time.

Weird that whey and casein products don't bother me but regular milk upsets my stomach. I wonder if it is more enzyme related. Hmm... I must speak with my doc on that one.

 

[KnightWRX]

Whey is expensive, but it tastes a lot better than powdered milk.

Only because they fill those tubs with sugar. Just mix your powdered milk with some sugar if you want the same effect (like, chocolate powdered quick).

Whey itself doesn't taste any better than milk. Whey is just residue from the dairy industry.

 

[wpotere]

Only because they fill those tubs with sugar. Just mix your powdered milk with some sugar if you want the same effect (like, chocolate powdered quick).

Whey itself doesn't taste any better than milk. Whey is just residue from the dairy industry.

Yeah, I get that, what I meant was that I am lazy and don't want to have to mix it all together to get what I want. It is just easier to buy it and I can afford it. Besides, if you shop around you can find it fairly cheap.

 

[KnightWRX]

That aside, one thing I haven't seen in this thread that's very important : If you want to gain weight, you need to have more calorie intake than what you burn. No matter how much protein you eat, if you have a calorie deficit, say good bye to weight.

And don't go overboard on protein. Your body can only absorb so much in a day. You'll piss the rest away. Another reason not to go for those big tubs, it's like pissing your money away since most of their "portions" have more protein than what you need anyway (there's already a good amount in the food you eat).

 

[wpotere]

That aside, one thing I haven't seen in this thread that's very important : If you want to gain weight, you need to have more calorie intake than what you burn. No matter how much protein you eat, if you have a calorie deficit, say good bye to weight.

And don't go overboard on protein. Your body can only absorb so much in a day. You'll piss the rest away. Another reason not to go for those big tubs, it's like pissing your money away since most of their "portions" have more protein than what you need anyway (there's already a good amount in the food you eat).

I started to go this route until I saw the marathon portion of the post. If this is his goal then weight gain is probably not at the top of his list.

 

[acearchie]

I started to go this route until I saw the marathon portion of the post. If this is his goal then weight gain is probably not at the top of his list.

I suppose I have picked two contrasting things to focus on. I am aiming to do a marathon next year (london marathon hopefully) which is pretty much a full 12 months from now.

I suppose at the moment I would like to focus on getting a good body whilst attempting to maintain my current running pace. Is that possible?

 

[wpotere]

I suppose I have picked two contrasting things to focus on. I am aiming to do a marathon next year (london marathon hopefully) which is pretty much a full 12 months from now.

I suppose at the moment I would like to focus on getting a good body whilst attempting to maintain my current running pace. Is that possible?

OK, if I was going to do this, this is what I would do...

When I used to train for cross country (not a marathon and it was a long time ago) I would simply focus on running for long periods of time (i never monitored my distance, only my time). Once I could run for a couple of hours straight, I started to up my pace little by little until I had what I felt was a great stride over that time. Core, legs and back will get stronger as you run and you will get leaner as well (I was skinny with a six pack and all I did was run but I wasn't upper body strong). I would start with this and then start reading as many marathon forums that you can to get more tips from people that do this.

As for diet, I would have to research it. When I was a kid, I ate everything in site, but that was years ago. High carb diet is in your future with this but I'm sure that there are others with better tips. If you decide to start lifting I can better help you.

Start with one thing at a time. The marathon is a great place to go and once you complete it you can always shift your interests to upper body strength if you feel that this isn't the route you want to go. The great thing about the human body is that it can and will adapt to what you want.

 

[Liquorpuki]

Taken on board. I am planning to have a tin of tuna (~30g protein) with some mayo and toasted seeds (~7g of protein/25g) an hour or so before sleeping. Is this the sort of idea?

To me, the point is just to get X grams of protein in your body so you can rebuild muscle during sleep. That # of grams depends on how hard you workout. I remember hearing that competitive body builders ingest 1 g protein per lb body weight. My goal was always just to look good, so 30-40 g post workout + a spoon full of of Glutamine is what I've always done. Plus whatever protein is in my dinner, if I actually eat dinner.

I'm getting corrected on the protein before sleeping thing so I'm probably wrong. I'm biased because for the past 10 years, I've always done my workouts in the evening after work. So my post workout shake has never been any time other than before sleep. On that note, it would probably be best to join a fitness forum like the other guy said. I know what works for me but with the wrong info, you could hurt yourself or at the bare minimum, delay results. Plus they all got egos on those forums and will flame each other if someone gives out misinformation.

Bad advice. Tubs of whey protein are overpriced. Go to the grocery store and just buy powdered milk. Same thing as the "whey protein" tubs (because they are the same protein!) and about 1/3 the price per pound if you absolutely have to have powdered protein.

The context was the OP was asking how to get enough protein in his system to gain muscle mass without having to cook steak/fish every night, not how far can you stretch a dollar. A $20 tub of whey beats the price of cooking every night, doesn't it? And personally I don't think $20 is that expensive for something that lasts a few weeks. Then again I use Nitrotech.

Best to just eat eggs/drink milk (the chocolat milk advice was best).

You'll also be farting nonstop every day including in your sleep