Transitioning from MBP 17" to MBPr 15"

[glenthompson]

I went from a 2007 17" to a 2011 cMBP 15". I do have a 23" ACD at home so the smaller screen isn't a big deal there. There are a few times I miss the big screen but I really prefer the smaller form factor and lighter weight.

The 17" was limited to 3gb of memory which was killing me on performance.

 

[Pompiliu]

Main question is, does the sharpness of the Retina display make up for the lost screen real estate? Is it easier/harder on the eyes?

LOL. What's the point of asking this?
It's not like you have a choice. The 17-inch MB is discontinued, so you'll have to buy the 15-inch, whether you like it or not.

 

[johnnylarue]

LOL. What's the point of asking this?
It's not like you have a choice. The 17-inch MB is discontinued, so you'll have to buy the 15-inch, whether you like it or not.

No, the late-2011 17" is still available refurbished or at very reasonable prices (~$1200) on the used market. There is for sale here locally at that price with a matte screen, 256GB SSD and 8GB of RAM--upgradable to 16GB. Even pushing two years old, one would be hard pressed to call that machine a joke!

Apart from the price and bigger screen, the fact that the 17" is still easily upgradable makes it an attractive option.

But I'm gonna go have a look at the Retina today and see how much squinting I do at 1920x1200.

 

[GSPice]

LOL. What's the point of asking this?
It's not like you have a choice.

Um, yes he does - refurbished and used?

 

[johnnylarue]

I went from a 2007 17" to a 2011 cMBP 15". I do have a 23" ACD at home so the smaller screen isn't a big deal there. There are a few times I miss the big screen but I really prefer the smaller form factor and lighter weight.

The 17" was limited to 3gb of memory which was killing me on performance.

No doubt--I remember when I upgraded from a 2004 Powerbook G4 to my 2010 17" juggernaut. It felt like Christmas everyday for six months!

Incidentally, I had that experience again when I installed a SSD into my MPB. I never could have imagined such a simple upgrade could make such a drastic improvement to a computer's responsiveness.

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Um, yes he does - refurbished and used?

Posting on internet forums can be a humbling experience at times.

 

[vpro]

Good luck still?

This is the best rMacBook review thus far:

http://youtu.be/10OR-U0n7Pw

Which supports so much of what I have been talking about on this forum for a few months now, about the screen size, no matter how you look at it, it is still too small. Period.

 

[GSPice]

Which supports so much of what I have been talking about on this forum for a few months now, about the screen size, no matter how you look at it, it is still too small. Period.

Hmm....

 

[johnnylarue]

Verdict?

Just got back from the Apple Store. Got to spend about 30 low-pressure minutes using the MBPr in 1920x1200 with Logic Pro X--pleasantly surprised that they had it installed in their demo units.

Observation #1: the Retina hype is justified. Minor glare issues aside (compared to the anti-glare screen I'm used to), I had no trouble at all dealing with the reduced font size of the 15" vs my old 17". In fact, I would even say the text was easier to read in spite of being a bit smaller, due to the higher contrast and sharper resolution. In any case, my worries on that front are gone. My lasting impression is that I really would not miss those extra two diagonal inches of screen at all.

Observation #2: yes, there's some minor sluggishness when scrolling in Safari, and even in other random animations, resizing windows in Logic, etc. It's nitpicking, and by no means a deal-breaker, but it does give the impression that the MBPr is straining a bit just to do mundane things (even if that's not the case) and it's a bit disappointing in that regard.

The verdict? What makes the most sense for me is to try to get by for another few weeks on this poor white MacBook and wait for the inevitable MBP refresh, and perhaps more importantly the release of Mavericks. If the new OS solves the minor clunkiness issues, I'll definitely consider getting a 2012 or early 2013 model. And if the laptop refresh turns out to be a winner, I'll splurge on Haswell MBP.

If I can't get any work done on this MacBook though, I may still opt to cut my losses and buy the used 17" even if it's a decidedly less sexy option to me now that I've had a chance to play with the latest and greatest. It would be plenty powerful enough for my immediate needs--and probably for another 2-3 years with a RAM upgrade. It's just the lack of AppleCare that makes me nervous.

Anyway, thanks again all for chiming in--your input was much appreciated!

 

[johnnylarue]

This is the best rMacBook review thus far:

http://youtu.be/10OR-U0n7Pw

Which supports so much of what I have been talking about on this forum for a few months now, about the screen size, no matter how you look at it, it is still too small. Period.

To be honest, I was half-expecting to agree with your assessment, but contrary to your observations and those of the reviewer, I found the resolution of the screen more than made up for the lack of actual screen size. As I mentioned above, text was especially easier to read than I thought it would be at 1920x1200, precisely because the fuzziness of the standard HD display of my 17" was entirely gone.

I have good eyesight though, and I see this as an extremely subjective thing--as GS points out above. My girlfriend's dad can't tell the difference between a DVD and a Blu-Ray, which makes buying a Blu-Ray player completely pointless for him. FOR HIM.

 

[PDFierro]

This is the best rMacBook review thus far:

http://youtu.be/10OR-U0n7Pw

Which supports so much of what I have been talking about on this forum for a few months now, about the screen size, no matter how you look at it, it is still too small. Period.

That could be not more false. I guess when I get the 13-inch rMBP, it's going to be too small no matter how I look at it.

The best thing people can do is what the OP has done, and that's judge it for themselves.

 

[Quu]

This is the best rMacBook review thus far:

http://youtu.be/10OR-U0n7Pw

Which supports so much of what I have been talking about on this forum for a few months now, about the screen size, no matter how you look at it, it is still too small. Period.

His review was interesting but it really is from the perspective of how well Windows runs on it.

 

[vpro]

Good on you.

If the refresh comes in Oct and the 13" miraculously has d-GUP I will sell my maxed 15"rMB because I just also got back from the store and had my 17", and 15" with me next to the 13"rMB, and I MUST say - the 13 incher is sooooo intimate I fell in love with it at first sight, so I picked one up with 3.0Ghz i7 just as an early birthday prezzie for myself.

Truly portable and packed with just enough power. The 15"rMB could have been really exceptional but I just can't deal with such a small screen. But for some reason the 13" was just PERFECT in an ultra slim portable and intimate way, wow! No lag scrolling, no hickups and way cooler than my 15-incher ever ran, I was watching short video clips and the 13-incher was still, silent and cool while everyone could hear the fans rev up and spin the whole time during a tiny 2min video on the 15-inch. Strange?

People were so intrigued by the 17" for sure and doing all sorts of speed tests next to the two retina macbooks. People thought it was so exotic and many became instantly nostalgic and decided to order the last refurb 17". So there were a lot of happy faces today for sure! Someone just emailed me from the store and said they'd love to buy my 15"rMB. All set.

Personally, in the future I would love to see the company stream line even slimmer, 9.5", 13" and 17" makes brilliant sense, because having a size between 13" and 17" for some reason just feels like such a waste of material and potential. You tell me?


Happy times everyone!

 

[sofianito]

This is the best rMacBook review thus far:

http://youtu.be/10OR-U0n7Pw

Which supports so much of what I have been talking about on this forum for a few months now, about the screen size, no matter how you look at it, it is still too small. Period.

The guy on the video is literally reading text. You could see his eyes pointing to another direction...

 

[vpro]

It is a technique in front of the camera, to seem important.

The guy on the video is literally reading text. You could see his eyes pointing to another direction...

No, he's pretending that he didn't make the video of himself, it is a technique they use to make it look like they are being important and are interviewed. Sure there must be a display with his script.

I promise I didn't write the script for him ^_~

 

[whitedragon101]

Yes, I have. If the flat is more than 90% the size of the house, it hardly counts as downsizing.

Its not 90% its 82% the size.

17% screen area at 16:10 is = 129.89 inches
15.4% screen area at 16:10 is = 106.59 inches
http://www.silisoftware.com/tools/screen.php

Putting my 17" MBP side (glossy) with the retina 15.4" I notice 3 things.

1) The retina is darker as the backlight is weaker (hopefully to be improved as retina displays improve and you probably wouldn't notice if you didn't see the 17" next to it).

2) The 15.4 screen is smaller, noticeably and unpleasantly smaller. 18% smaller . Did I say smaller. Its smaller.

3) Nice retina panel though. Does it come in 17" ?


ps
The 17" screen IS retina too. Retina is PPI vs distance. The 17" is retina at 26" or 66cm. I'm sat with it on my lap and the screen is farther away than that. (for the visual gag, yes that means i did stick a tape measure on my forehead )
http://isthisretina.com/

 

[Mattstrete]

I guess I'm going to have to wade in here ...

I briefly owned both so was able to compare them side by side (before selling my 17"). Even after 5 minutes using the rMBP, going back to the 17" (to transfer some files across) was painful. Text is grainier on a non-retina display and is more difficult to read. Even if the text ends up looking slightly smaller on the 15" retina display, it's far sharper and in my view easier on the eyes - although as always this will be a subjective expression of opinion sure to attract an emotional rebuttal from someone on this forum.

I use my rMBP with two TBD's, which also look grainy by comparison - until I push them further away from my eyes, into the "retina" zone.

 

[clyde2801]

I guess I'm going to have to wade in here ...

I briefly owned both so was able to compare them side by side (before selling my 17"). Even after 5 minutes using the rMBP, going back to the 17" (to transfer some files across) was painful. Text is grainier on a non-retina display and is more difficult to read. Even if the text ends up looking slightly smaller on the 15" retina display, it's far sharper and in my view easier on the eyes - although as always this will be a subjective expression of opinion sure to attract an emotional rebuttal from someone on this forum.

I use my rMBP with two TBD's, which also look grainy by comparison - until I push them further away from my eyes, into the "retina" zone.

I thought I was the only one who had that experience with the two machines. I'm middle aged, and I have to wear over the counter reading glasses with my 17", my prescription bi-focals don't even cut it. OTOH, I can read text on my 15" rMBP just fine even without glasses of any kind.

To the OP, if you wait for the retinas to get haswell, you may be able to get a nice ivy bridge 2012/2013 for a tidy discount. Doubtlessly some of them will already have extended applecare coverage. Managed to pick up a 2012 15" for a fire sale price of $1400, and it still has initial applecare through late January of next year.

 

[whitedragon101]

I guess I'm going to have to wade in here ...

I briefly owned both so was able to compare them side by side (before selling my 17"). Even after 5 minutes using the rMBP, going back to the 17" (to transfer some files across) was painful. Text is grainier on a non-retina display and is more difficult to read. Even if the text ends up looking slightly smaller on the 15" retina display, it's far sharper and in my view easier on the eyes - although as always this will be a subjective expression of opinion sure to attract an emotional rebuttal from someone on this forum.

I use my rMBP with two TBD's, which also look grainy by comparison - until I push them further away from my eyes, into the "retina" zone.

which 17" screen did you have matte or glossy?

 

[vpro]

Retina consumer culture.

Its not 90% its 82% the size.

17% screen area at 16:10 is = 129.89 inches
15.4% screen area at 16:10 is = 106.59 inches
http://www.silisoftware.com/tools/screen.php

Putting my 17" MBP side (glossy) with the retina 15.4" I notice 3 things.

1) The retina is darker as the backlight is weaker (hopefully to be improved as retina displays improve and you probably wouldn't notice if you didn't see the 17" next to it).

2) The 15.4 screen is smaller, noticeably and unpleasantly smaller. 18% smaller . Did I say smaller. Its smaller.

3) Nice retina panel though. Does it come in 17" ?


ps
The 17" screen IS retina too. Retina is PPI vs distance. The 17" is retina at 26" or 66cm. I'm sat with it on my lap and the screen is farther away than that. (for the visual gag, yes that means i did stick a tape measure on my forehead )
http://isthisretina.com/

You're absolutely right, how has consumer culture given so much patronage to this retina idea and bought into it so much so they can't even really 'see'. How can you "make do" with a much smaller screen for your gorgeous content. I just don't think I'll ever 'get' the 'logic' that some people try and justify around here how a 15" screen is able to 'appear' just as spacious as a 17" display, by cramming in all that content like they crammed in all those pixels?? People are just eating it up!

How ever, it makes sense for the 13"rMB, so much, it is really great, I feel very intimate with the content and it is a very great personal computing experience, it is so small I have to bring it a little closer on the bus etc because otherwise I'll see more of the world around me framing the boarder of the screen than my content! That is what happens with the 15"rMB, I have to come in closer to feel like the content is surrounding my eyes, as it stands the images just 'pop' but with the 17"MBP I feel it is so wide and 'sucks me into' the content! The 17"MBP is most certainly retina too at the right distance, because seriously you're not supposed to come right up, close to the screen, you must comfortably be a ways away from it because the screen is so generous and BIG there is no need to cram yourself into the screen!

Those are some of the major 'observations' I have come to make having owned both.

 

[johnnylarue]

which 17" screen did you have matte or glossy?

I had the matte one, which was a phenomenal display. But I have to agree with Clyde--all numbers and mathematics aside, the Retina is much easier on the eyes, even viewing Logic in full-screen 1920x1200 mode.

In spite of the bigger screen, the 17" doesn't have the pixel-power to resolve small text without adding fuzzy edges, and those edges do make a difference, whether you're viewing from two inches away or two feet.

The matte display was also significantly lower in contrast--which was great for photo editing, but a bit more fatiguing for reading. (At least for me it was.)

 

[GSPice]

Just got back from the Apple Store. Got to spend about 30 low-pressure minutes using the MBPr in 1920x1200 with Logic Pro X--pleasantly surprised that they had it installed in their demo units.

Observation #1: the Retina hype is justified. Minor glare issues aside (compared to the anti-glare screen I'm used to), I had no trouble at all dealing with the reduced font size of the 15" vs my old 17". In fact, I would even say the text was easier to read in spite of being a bit smaller, due to the higher contrast and sharper resolution. In any case, my worries on that front are gone. My lasting impression is that I really would not miss those extra two diagonal inches of screen at all.

Observation #2: yes, there's some minor sluggishness when scrolling in Safari, and even in other random animations, resizing windows in Logic, etc. It's nitpicking, and by no means a deal-breaker, but it does give the impression that the MBPr is straining a bit just to do mundane things (even if that's not the case) and it's a bit disappointing in that regard.

The verdict? What makes the most sense for me is to try to get by for another few weeks on this poor white MacBook and wait for the inevitable MBP refresh, and perhaps more importantly the release of Mavericks. If the new OS solves the minor clunkiness issues, I'll definitely consider getting a 2012 or early 2013 model. And if the laptop refresh turns out to be a winner, I'll splurge on Haswell MBP.

If I can't get any work done on this MacBook though, I may still opt to cut my losses and buy the used 17" even if it's a decidedly less sexy option to me now that I've had a chance to play with the latest and greatest. It would be plenty powerful enough for my immediate needs--and probably for another 2-3 years with a RAM upgrade. It's just the lack of AppleCare that makes me nervous.

Anyway, thanks again all for chiming in--your input was much appreciated!

Good ideas. The 15" rMBP is just gorgeous, and a pleasure to use. And the Haswell refresh will surely be welcome.

 

[johnnylarue]

The 17"MBP is most certainly retina too at the right distance, because seriously you're not supposed to come right up, close to the screen, you must comfortably be a ways away from it because the screen is so generous and BIG there is no need to cram yourself into the screen!

I see where you're coming from, vpro, but remember that we're talking about laptops here. Unless you want to get your arms prosthetically lengthened, you're never going to be more than 30" away from a laptop screen.

I can't say for certain at which distance from the screen the 17" and 15" Retina appear equivalent in terms of resolution, but I can say after 3+ years of heavy use with the 17", the Retina display I auditioned yesterday was able to resolve text, windows and Logic Pro buttons significantly more sharply than my old MPB, and was much easier on the eyes as a result.

----------

I guess I'm going to have to wade in here ...

I briefly owned both so was able to compare them side by side (before selling my 17"). Even after 5 minutes using the rMBP, going back to the 17" (to transfer some files across) was painful. Text is grainier on a non-retina display and is more difficult to read. Even if the text ends up looking slightly smaller on the 15" retina display, it's far sharper and in my view easier on the eyes - although as always this will be a subjective expression of opinion sure to attract an emotional rebuttal from someone on this forum.

I use my rMBP with two TBD's, which also look grainy by comparison - until I push them further away from my eyes, into the "retina" zone.

This pretty much echoes my sentiments as well, Matt. I might not describe the difference as "painful", but it's certainly significant. Using the Retina made me think of what it must be like to have cataracts removed after living with them for several years.

 

[laurihoefs]

People are just eating it up!

No, people are seeing it fit for their purposes, and moving on with their lives.

 

[vpro]

Oh when I home I have wireless keyboard with touch pad and hook up the 17"MBP to 3 TB displays. When I'm out and about it is a comfortable arms length away from my eyes. You don't want your elbows too bent using these machines, I notice a lot of people go right up to the screen. I'm near sighted so I see perfectly no matter 15"r or 17"MBP or now the 13"r, my arms length away I can't tell the difference, ONLY that the 17" is still a really huge canvas no matter how you justify it. It is enormous when next to the others. It is the brightest most easy on my eyes as well. For clients I bring the 17" and everyone around the table can view it perfectly. The 15" and especially the 13" retinas are perfect personal computers. I'll never endorse the 15". It is way too much a sacrifice for my profession. I was too over indulgent with the 17" too using it as a personal computer, now with the 13" retina I got my perfect personal machine.

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No, people are seeing it fit for their purposes, and moving on with their lives.

No people are making up for and settling. People are very hypnotized by marketing. Don't you forget it.

 

[laurihoefs]

No people are making up for and settling. People are very hypnotized by marketing. Don't you forget it.

You have some nerve to dismiss and belittle rational decisions other people make based on their personal needs and preferences. It's certainly not them, who are hypnotized...