tried rMB again - better impressions - evidence that Yosemite is buggy

[terencedriver]

I tried the rMB again -yes again- in the Covent Garden store.

This time I was pleasantly surprised and the evidence suggested where the main problem is Yosemite's UI.

* I ran some benchmarks using IPython on a rMB and rMBP13. Array multiplication thousands of times. The times were similar at 500-600ms per loop.

* I installed the GIMP photo editor and played with a few operations like curves and image warping and applying textures. Fluid and fast enough not to notice.

So sounds really good!?

Except that damn Yosemite is spoiling the experience with a laggy in interface. Damn shame. Because it would be really good otherwise (except the keyboard).

Why does my nexus 5 have a more fluid interface pushing 1280x1024 pixels? Why does my netbook from 4 yaers ago with windows have a snappier desktop?

Debloat that OSX and you'll have a fantastic creation.

Hardware is getting better. Software isn't.

 

[bmclaurin]

Reducing/eliminating transparency is said to help greatly, although I've had a great experience thus far on my 1.1/256 with transparency enabled.

 

[Hankster]

I tried the rMB again -yes again- in the Covent Garden store.

This time I was pleasantly surprised and the evidence suggested where the main problem is Yosemite's UI.

* I ran some benchmarks using IPython on a rMB and rMBP13. Array multiplication thousands of times. The times were similar at 500-600ms per loop.

* I installed the GIMP photo editor and played with a few operations like curves and image warping and applying textures. Fluid and fast enough not to notice.

So sounds really good!?

Except that damn Yosemite is spoiling the experience with a laggy in interface. Damn shame. Because it would be really good otherwise (except the keyboard).

Why does my nexus 5 have a more fluid interface pushing 1280x1024 pixels? Why does my netbook from 4 yaers ago with windows have a snappier desktop?

Debloat that OSX and you'll have a fantastic creation.

Hardware is getting better. Software isn't.

I have not experienced any lag in UI on any of my laptops. I've owned three MBA in five years and my wife has two MacBooks. My rMB has no lag in UI either. So, not sure what people are talking about.

Also, I would never - ever - base real reviews by the demos in the stores. They are the worst. It's like test driving a rental car and assuming a new car will drive the same. However, I will agree the OS is getting too much. All the updates are not required. Keep the OS simple, that's why many people prefer it over Windows.

 

[brdeveloper]

I have not experienced any lag in UI on any of my laptops. I've owned three MBA in five years and my wife has two MacBooks. My rMB has no lag in UI either. So, not sure what people are talking about.

Also, I would never - ever - base real reviews by the demos in the stores. They are the worst. It's like test driving a rental car and assuming a new car will drive the same. However, I will agree the OS is getting too much. All the updates are not required. Keep the OS simple, that's why many people prefer it over Windows.

In the OSX world there is no Windows XP or 7 approach. You either upgrade or die. Mavericks was getting annoying with those "iCloud drive isn't supported on this Mac". Come on, who cares? However, Numbers, Pages and other apps was showing messages like that. I've just upgraded for the sake of getting rid of those messages.

Yosemite looks like a very minor upgrade in relation to Mavericks, even more if you don't have an iPhone and don't care with the handoff and continuity stuff. Finder stays almost useless without TotalFinder and windows keep maximizing only in the vertical direction as always. Double-clicking toolbars now maximizes the window. It took a little time until I discovered that double clicking the toolbar has the semantics of the old green button.

Perhaps Lion was the last version in which you could stay where you are forever. You just needed to stop using Safari and everything else would work as the day one.

 

[terencedriver]

Reducing/eliminating transparency is said to help greatly, although I've had a great experience thus far on my 1.1/256 with transparency enabled.

Appreciate the fix but my annoyance is with Apple. Premium device. Premium prices. And we have to disable/reduce transparency to make it work. (Not forgetting no WiFi after 5 months and four updates prioritising emojis...).

 

[newellj]

It's a YMMV point, but I affirmatively dislike transparency and would disable it even if it made OS X run *faster.*

I would amplify the point about the demo units. I know that when I go into a store I almost always wind up changing settings, and although I try to remember to change them back, it isn't always possible and/or I sometimes forget. I would like to think that the Geniuses could do a master default settings reset every night, but I doubt it happens.

 

[tecnho]

tried rMB again - better impressions - evidence that Yosemite is buggy

Also, I would never - ever - base real reviews by the demos in the stores. They are the worst. It's like test driving a rental car and assuming a new car will drive the same.

More like test driving a demolition derby vehicle. The display models seem like they take a beating in every way except physically

 

[shenan1982]

More like test driving a demolition derby vehicle. The display models seem like they take a beating in every way except physically

Except physically? I've seen them smashed, dropped, pushed off the table, slammed shut, kids prying off the keys, kids pushing on the screen as if it were touch screen.

 

[tecnho]

Except physically? I've seen them smashed, dropped, pushed off the table, slammed shut, kids prying off the keys, kids pushing on the screen as if it were touch screen.

Damn, what are you guys doing to those things over there? Here in North Carolina we treat our electronic devices right! We don't smash 'em... We open 10 tabs of 4k video, frantically swipe through apps and mission control, change every default setting, open every dock app, and max out the CPU usage...son!

 

[shenan1982]

Damn, what are you guys doing to those things over there? Here in North Carolina we treat our electronic devices right! We don't smash 'em... We open 10 tabs of 4k video, frantically swipe through apps and mission control, change every default setting, open every dock app, and max out the CPU usage...son!

The subject is what happens to the macs at the APPLE store, not in my house. LOL

 

[dexterbell]

I tried the rMB again -yes again- in the Covent Garden store.

This time I was pleasantly surprised and the evidence suggested where the main problem is Yosemite's UI.

* I ran some benchmarks using IPython on a rMB and rMBP13. Array multiplication thousands of times. The times were similar at 500-600ms per loop.

* I installed the GIMP photo editor and played with a few operations like curves and image warping and applying textures. Fluid and fast enough not to notice.

So sounds really good!?

Except that damn Yosemite is spoiling the experience with a laggy in interface. Damn shame. Because it would be really good otherwise (except the keyboard).

Why does my nexus 5 have a more fluid interface pushing 1280x1024 pixels? Why does my netbook from 4 yaers ago with windows have a snappier desktop?

Debloat that OSX and you'll have a fantastic creation.

Hardware is getting better. Software isn't.

Not sure if serious. More fluid experience on a Nexus 5? Google "Nexus 5 lag" and you'll find tons of links to articles and complaints about lagging and crashing on that garbage phone. Mine was awful. Your netbook from 4 years ago doesn't have a retina display. If you are that concerned with a slight UI lag most people don't even get, don't buy the MacBook and move on with your life.

 

[terencedriver]

.... on that garbage phone ....

???

 

[Freyqq]

More like test driving a demolition derby vehicle. The display models seem like they take a beating in every way except physically

Also, they tend to never get updated (expect apple stores). They get shipped to the store, and they never receive another update.

 

[matt2053]

To clear some confusion up, the lag issues seem to only manifest when you are running:

1) Yosemite,
2) on a machine with integrated graphics only,
3) on a Retina display,
4) with "reduce transparency" disabled (default).

So of course MBA doesn't have this problem. There's not Retina display.

Of course 15" MBP doesn't have this problem. It has dedicated graphics.

Of course you don't have this problem on Mavericks or Mountain Lion. It's a Yosemite issue.

 

[jazz1]

To clear some confusion up, the lag issues seem to only manifest when you are running:

1) Yosemite,
2) on a machine with integrated graphics only,
3) on a Retina display,
4) with "reduce transparency" disabled (default).

So of course MBA doesn't have this problem. There's not Retina display.

Of course 15" MBP doesn't have this problem. It has dedicated graphics.

Of course you don't have this problem on Mavericks or Mountain Lion. It's a Yosemite issue.

Can't Apple customize a version for this laptop and Yosemite? And this didn't show in beta?

 

[TH3D4RKKN1GH7]

The only time I experience lag is sliding between full screen apps. It's not super laggy, but it's a little stutter, not 60fps smooth. I've also seen it occur a few times on my 6 core/D700 Mac Pro. Might try reducing transparency.

 

[NathanA]

Of course 15" MBP doesn't have this problem. It has dedicated graphics.

Not all models. As of the Late 2013 edition of 15" rMBP, you can now buy one with or without the nVidia dGPU. (The base model has no dGPU. You can configure the base to have all of the highest specs except leave out the dGPU, which presumably some people find value in not having because it helps with battery life and/or they have had bad experiences with Mac laptops with nVidia GPUs prematurely failing in the past.)

Do people with 15" rMBP and no dGPU experience the same lag issues?

-- Nathan

 

[johnparjr]

Your using the demos in the store ? You do know that's a special package and not the same as what end users use. Or did you buy one and take home

 

[Geert76]

Your using the demos in the store ? You do know that's a special package and not the same as what end users use. Or did you buy one and take home

What is the difference than? I thought the standard Apple app on the demo models were the same as I use at my own Mac

 

[johngwheeler]

Not all models. As of the Late 2013 edition of 15" rMBP, you can now buy one with or without the nVidia dGPU. (The base model has no dGPU. You can configure the base to have all of the highest specs except leave out the dGPU, which presumably some people find value in not having because it helps with battery life and/or they have had bad experiences with Mac laptops with nVidia GPUs prematurely failing in the past.)

Do people with 15" rMBP and no dGPU experience the same lag issues?

-- Nathan

I have a late-2013 rMBP with Iris Pro + dGPU, and I normally use it with the integrated GPU only (to save battery life, and possibly reduce temperatures). I don't notice any UI lag with the Iris Pro integrated GPU, or any difference if I switch to the dGPU. I don't play games on this machine, but I've never had any issues with the Mac OS UI or the apps that I use.

Of course, as soon as you plug in an external display, you have to enable the dGPU (because of the way the display logic wired). It all seems very smooth to me.

But then I thought the base rMB looked pretty smooth when I tried it for 15 minutes in the store...some people seem to notice UI delay more than others. I don't expect any of my computers to respond without any hesitation in all circumstances, so maybe my expectations are lower

 

[matt2053]

I have a late-2013 rMBP with Iris Pro + dGPU, and I normally use it with the integrated GPU only (to save battery life, and possibly reduce temperatures). I don't notice any UI lag with the Iris Pro integrated GPU, or any difference if I switch to the dGPU. I don't play games on this machine, but I've never had any issues with the Mac OS UI or the apps that I use.

Of course, as soon as you plug in an external display, you have to enable the dGPU (because of the way the display logic wired). It all seems very smooth to me.

But then I thought the base rMB looked pretty smooth when I tried it for 15 minutes in the store...some people seem to notice UI delay more than others. I don't expect any of my computers to respond without any hesitation in all circumstances, so maybe my expectations are lower

I don't think that people can spend 15 mins with it in the store and make a determination about whether or not they perceive the lag.

It comes and goes. I go sometimes 2 or 3 days without it. Then it pops up and gets gradually worse until I get frustrated and I reboot and that seems to handle it for another day or two or three.

When it comes, there's no mistaking it. It's not that some people are more sensitive to it than others, it's probably more that some people are just not experiencing it at all in their limited time with the machine.

One thing that almost always seems to trigger it for me is hosting a GoToMeeting and sharing my screen. After that my MB UI is choppy and laggy and sometimes it goes away or sometimes it continues to get worse until I reboot.

 

[headcase]

I don't think that people can spend 15 mins with it in the store and make a determination about whether or not they perceive the lag.

It comes and goes. I go sometimes 2 or 3 days without it. Then it pops up and gets gradually worse until I get frustrated and I reboot and that seems to handle it for another day or two or three.

When it comes, there's no mistaking it. It's not that some people are more sensitive to it than others, it's probably more that some people are just not experiencing it at all in their limited time with the machine.

One thing that almost always seems to trigger it for me is hosting a GoToMeeting and sharing my screen. After that my MB UI is choppy and laggy and sometimes it goes away or sometimes it continues to get worse until I reboot.

There's been complaints in the past about memory leaks with Yosemite, which your comments potentially support. Take a look at this thread and perhaps share your results over time. I'm seeing some occasional lag when sharing my screen via WebEx, but I'm waiting to see if this is consistently repeatable.
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6623697