Trouble logging in

[Ambrosia7177]

2015 Retina with Sierra...

I am having noticeable difficulty logging in.

What I mean by this is after I boot up my Retina with max RAM and a SSD, as I type in my login password, it is often the case that characters I type in don't register in the login window.

Now my first thought was, "Oh crap, I have a bad keyboard!" However, after watching things closely, it appears that the system is hanging up as I log in and sometimes keystrokes don't convert into a character in the login window.

(I'm on my 2011 MBP right now.)

A little while ago I was slowly typing in "Password" - not my real one - and as I typed "P" registered as a *, but then "a" didn't register and finally a * appeared in it's place, and so on.

However, often when I go to log in - like most people - I type super fast, and in that case my 8 character "Password" is only registered as maybe a 5 character string of *****.

Not only is this annoying as hell, once I switch to my "regular" password - which is rather long and complicated - I worry that I won't know which characters are getting dropped.

And then I won't know if my log in failed because "I" fat-fingered a key - which when you have a long and complex password happens fairly often - or if the problem is with my Macintosh not accepting my password properly!

I have never seen this issue on any computer I have owned, and definitely not on any previous Macs.

I spent over $2,000 on this "new" 2015 Retina, and the thought that I could be having hardware issues like 16 months after I finally unboxed it and started setting it up is unnerving!

Although, again, this seems more like a slow system and not a bad keyboard, because as far as I can tell, once I am logged in, all of my keys (e.g. typing in TextEdit) seem to work okay...

Any ideas on what is going on?

 

[Bart Kela]

With all of the security hardening you have adopted on the 2015 Retina (MacBook? MacBook Pro?), I doubt if anyone here has a good idea of what is going on. I suggest you make an appointment with the Genius Bar at the local Apple Store.

If this is the same system that you shut down hard because of slowness, it is possible that something in the operating system is corrupted.

If you want to try to diagnose this yourself, your best approach would be to find an external drive, install a fresh copy of Sierra on that, then boot up off the newly created drive. If it behaves normally, then it would seem likely that some of whatever security precautions you have taken or any mishandling of your system since you created that disk have damaged that installation (that "Flashing Folder With Question Mark" thread you started).

Or it could be bad hardware. No one here can diagnose that for certain. It needs to be examined in person by a trained technician, probably with diagnostic tools (both software and hardware) and techniques are not not available to people here.

I'm unclear of the chronology of this 2015 Retina, when you purchased it and from where, when you pulled it out of the box, when you first powered it up, when you started customizing it. In some very recent threads (even in December), you have mentioned a device that you started setting up a couple of weeks ago. In some threads, it appears you started the process months ago (about late September 2017).

In this thread, you claim that you unboxed this unit 16 months ago and started setting it up. Since it's January 2018, that means you unboxed it around September 2016. In this thread from September 2017, it appears you indeed purchased a 2015 Retina MacBook Pro in September 2016, then didn't use it for a year (you often do not specify in your threads if you are on a MacBook or MacBook Pro).

[Edit: I see from your started threads history that you were contemplating purchasing a refurbished 2015 Retina from a third-party source in September, with a 90-day warranty and no coverage on the keyboard and mice. Several people who replied stated that they would only buy refurbished units directly from Apple with the 1-year warranty.]

So do you have two 2015 Retina MacBook Pros? If so, when did you buy them? Where did you buy them from? It sounds like maybe the first one was purchased new, the second one might be a refurbished unit from a third-party vendor.

Apple has a no-questions 14 or 15 day money-back return policy; if you have buyers remorse, you have two weeks to figure it out from the date of sale. Apple's standard warranty coverage is one year, so if was a hardware issue that developed in the first year, you have 365 days from the date of sale to address it.

If the hardware fault developed after the 1-year warranty coverage expired (it happens), Apple does provide out-of-warranty repair services at a cost or you could use the services of an Apple-authorized service center instead.

In any case, Apple will examine your Mac free of charge and tell you what they think is wrong with it and how much it would cost you to fix it. It's your call what to do next.

Best of luck.

 

[DeltaMac]

Try this:
When you get to the login window - wait a bit, maybe 30 seconds, before you begin typing your password.
Do you get the same, slow response when you wait before beginning to type?
If you get normal response that you might expect, then I would expect its some kind of caching issue, and I would try a simple macOS reload.
If there's no difference after waiting a bit (still lags on input) - might be time for AppleCare support to get a chance to help you.

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

What do you have on the retina? Can you do a clean install?

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Try this:
When you get to the login window - wait a bit, maybe 30 seconds, before you begin typing your password.
Do you get the same, slow response when you wait before beginning to type?
If you get normal response that you might expect, then I would expect its some kind of caching issue, and I would try a simple macOS reload.
If there's no difference after waiting a bit (still lags on input) - might be time for AppleCare support to get a chance to help you.

I thought about that idea too, and tried it before, but didn't wait long enough.

After reading your post, I tried again...

I booted up, clicked on my Admin account, and as I watched the cursor in the login screen I saw...

One-one-thousands, 2, three-one-thousand, 4, 5, 6, 7...

Hopefully you follow what I am saying?

I'm not coordinated enough to entirely "touch type", so i can't look at the form and see as I type, but out of the corner of my eyes, it appears that after waiting that initial 30 seconds the cursor flashes a steady tempo, and thus my typing is "responsive".

I also want to point out again that often when I shut down at night, I either see my pointer present on a semi-lit screen or I get a bunch of bars spinning around in a circle for 30-60 seconds, which is unacceptable to me.

On a new Mac with SSD and nothing installed, I would expect shutdown to be like shutting off an incandescent light bulb - instantaneous!

@DeltaMac, it sounds like you think my OS is corrupt??

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

That shut down time sounds a little long but certainly not out of the question. It is not instantaneous.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

What do you have on the retina? Can you do a clean install?

Other than a boatload of "hardening", nothing at all.

I have a CCC clone, but I suspect that any file corruption would be on my clone too.

Thanks to you, I even have a copy of Sierra on this old 2011 MBP, although I haven't had time to learn how to create an installer.

I suppose I should reinstall macOS Sierra, but that is so much damn work to have to re-customize my brand new Mac a second time!!!

Truth be told, I have been working on a guide for myself on how to make a really secure Mac, and I have been learning how to do various things since this past summer.

Now that my guide is almost done, and since I have the experience under my belt, I suppose I could build a new "hardened" Mac in a lot less time, but I'd estimate it is still 20-30 hours worth of work that could better be used for other things!!


******
As far as @Bart Kela's suggestions, I am sort of in a bind there...

I bought this 2015 Retina MBP in the Summer of 2016, then my father became ill, and I spent the rest of the year taking care of him until he passed. Then I spent 2017 trying to put my life back together, and getting back to work.

So, I have a "brand new" Retina MBP that I bought 18 months ago, and that was manufacturer 3 years ago!

Ugh!

(Of course I am still better off than owning a new piece-of-crap MBP!!!)


At any rate... It has been a LONG journey, and I'm kinda ready to start using my flipping "new" Retina MBP before I die, and now this?!

Then again, I'd rather get this sorted out now, before I start installing all of my apps and data from my old MBP.

This laptop is used for my business, so I want to get it 100% right.

Not sure if any of my soap opera explanation helps?

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

Do a clean install using recovery disk IMO
It shouldn’t take more than two hours

 

[DeltaMac]

...
On a new Mac with SSD and nothing installed, I would expect shutdown to be like shutting off an incandescent light bulb - instantaneous!

@DeltaMac, it sounds like you think my OS is corrupt??

I've not seen any Mac shut down instantly, never. Unless you want to press and hold the power button.
(Not that I would recommend actually doing THAT, unless you have no other choice.)
I think I could say that the "normal" shutdown (if there is such a thing) is between 5 and 10 seconds.
This Mac mini that I use most, SSD, running High Sierra, sometimes shuts down in 5 seconds. Sometimes it sits on a black screen with a cursor, and takes anywhere from 15 secs to 5 minutes (if I am that patient)
But then, I seldom do a shutdown, just to leave it off (That happens maybe once or twice a year )
Normally, my Mac is sleeping when I am not using it. I occasionally get up-times of a week or two. I just don't get overly-concerned about long shutdowns these days.

Corrupt OS? No, I don't think so, and did not mean to leave that impression. You may have cache files that have some problems, so you could try clearing out system and user cache folders, then restart a couple of times, relaunch your typical apps that you use, then restart again. That should help do a proper rebuild for your caches in-place. As you would clear the system caches, you would then expect a little slow for certain operations (depending on what YOU do, not necessarily what I do) until the internal caches are rebuilt. You will sometimes notice the difference, other times when clearing caches, not so much difference as to be noticeable. It would just be something that you might be aware about when rebuilding caches in the system.

BUT, I don't think system caches, etc, come into play at the initial login screen, as the user does not load until you complete the login, and is a pretty basic part of the system load at that point. So, to troubleshoot THAT, typically, I would try a reload of the macOS (if the typing delay bothers you). Not everyone would do that first, and I don't know if I can justify that action technically to anyone else. It's just what I would do in the same situation.

 

[Bart Kela]

Well, your story does help clarify the chronology. I'm sorry for your loss, although you could have simply stated "I bought this 2015 Retina MacBook Pro in Summer 2016 from ____ when I unboxed, but I had to set it aside for personal issues and more recently resumed configuring it" without going into the soap opera details.

It was already an older model and you still haven't stated where you bought it. I assume you did not purchase AppleCare, so it is outside the 1-year standard warranty period.

From your previous post history, you have explored and enforced a number of security hardening measures. To be honest, at least half of the time, it sounds like you had very little idea of what you were doing.

The most basic test would be to install a generic copy of Sierra on an external drive, boot up and play with it. If it behaves normally, that would point to bad hardware in your internal SSD or a damaged/misconfigured operating system installed on it. You haven't done that, so I don't get the impression that you know what you are doing most of the time.

And then you post a question like the one where you are asking very basic questions about nomenclature that is covered in Apple Support documents, a topic that has zero to do with security.

Going forward, I suggest you wipe your drive clean, reinstall Sierra, then make a clone of it. Keep using it and let Time Machine make some backups. If you are satisfied with its behavior, then start reapplying your security hardening measures one at a time, one per week, with multiple Time Machine clones and noting performance/behavior impact. If you eventually end up with a security hardened MacBook Pro with all of your desired modifications, you might want to make a second clone just in case of some other fault, failure, or user-caused damage. I do not recommend that you apply all of your changes in a 20-30 hour marathon hardening process without careful testing after each modification is made.

Or, take your system to the Genius Bar and have them look at it. They have more experienced with damaged goods than pretty much everyone here combined and they have software and hardware diagnostic tools to investigate more fully than some random unpaid anonymous posters in an online Q&A forum.

Best of luck.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Do a clean install using recovery disk IMO
It shouldn’t take more than two hours

So I boot up using Command+R ?

If I did a clean install from my Recovery Partition, can you explain how that would or would not impact all of my OS settings? (I thought @DeltaMac claimed before that doing a macOS install wouldn't touch your applications and data?)

Also, what are the chances that the issues I am having would be captured in my clone?

If a clone is supposed to be an exact copy of your entire hard-drive, I assume any file corruption would get replicated in my CCC clone, right?

Also, is there any benefit to doing a clean install from an "Installer Disk" versus using the Recovery Partition?

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

I recommend erasing the drive prior to reinstall; this would remove your OS settings.

He meant if you reinstalled without erasing.

I can't know but I'll guess unlikely.

No. Use the recovery partition if you don't already have the disk.

 

[DeltaMac]

If you boot to recovery system, and simply choose "Reinstall macOS", then you will get what I call a "reload"
Your existing files, apps and other settings will not be disturbed (other than those related to the basic system itself, some of which (example = windows layouts), may be reset to defaults.
I think Mr_Brightside said Clean Install, which, in my experience, would consist of erasing the drive, then reinstalling the system to a freshly formatted drive. Then you would restore all your other files and apps, setup various folders, maybe whatever you might have on a clone of your present system (and you would lose anything that you don't have backed up to your satisfaction before your erase the drive.
I would suggest that's a bit of overkill at this point (early in your use) unless you discover that you have made a mistake in your configuration that cannot be reset without that full erase/reinstall/restore.

As Mr_Brightside_@ suggested - this is a good time to use a bootable Sierra installer, if you already created one. Faster install than the Recovery system (which has to download all the system files first).
Again, the choice to Reinstall macOS in Recovery, or when booted to a USB installer, does NOT erase your drive, nor disturb your other files and settings - unless you decide to erase the drive first using Disk Utility.

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

If you boot to recovery system, and simply choose "Reinstall macOS", then you will get what I call a "reload"
Your existing files, apps and other settings will not be disturbed (other than those related to the basic system itself, some of which (example = windows layouts), may be reset to defaults.
I think Mr_Brightside said Clean Install, which, in my experience, would consist of erasing the drive, then reinstalling the system to a freshly formatted drive. Then you would restore all your other files and apps, setup various folders, maybe whatever you might have on a clone of your present system (and you would lose anything that you don't have backed up to your satisfaction before your erase the drive.
I would suggest that's a bit of overkill at this point (early in your use) unless you discover that you have made a mistake in your configuration that cannot be reset without that full erase/reinstall/restore.

As Mr_Brightside_@ suggested - this is a good time to use a bootable Sierra installer, if you already created one. Faster install than the Recovery system (which has to download all the system files first).
Again, the choice to Reinstall macOS in Recovery, or when booted to a USB installer, does NOT erase your drive, nor disturb your other files and settings - unless you decide to erase the drive first using Disk Utility.

Yup, by clean I meant erasing first. Should've clarified. I'm suggesting recovery partition be used due to the date on this:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/making-an-os-installer.2089959/

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Am I making a bigger deal of this login screen lag than I should?

I option booted to my clone from last week, and there is no login lag.

Then I option booted to my internal drive and no login lag.

Then I booted up normally to my internal and it looks okay.

However, I am sure that tomorrow or whenever this will be an issue again.

All I know is that often when I try to login with my temporary - simple - password it fails due to this issue!

And if I am going to fix things, now is a better time to do it than later once I have apps and data on my Retina.

Then again, it's no fun to do a clean install of your OS on a "new" machine!

Oh, btw, I have also noticed the same login issue when I option boot and have to type in my firmware password.

I'm not sure what the "normal" behavior is, but I find that screen confusing, because first of all there is no flashing cursor, so you don't know when the field is selected to accept your password. And then, I often start typing my password and nothing happens. So then I have to click on the firmware login field a few times, and then try typing again, and then I finally get a **** indicating that it is working?

Does anyone use the EFI password screen, and if so, how should it behave?

Maybe I have a firmware issue?

God, I feel like I am stuck on my old PC....

 

[DeltaMac]

The firmware (EFI) password uses - well - firmware. Even earlier in the boot sequence than the system login. It's not related to any software or system that might have installed on the internal drive (or anywhere else, as far as that is concerned) That login window is produced purely in ROM. I guess there's no cursor (to show character position) because there's no provision for that in that screen. (It's not an OS, as such, just an unlock screen, eh?)
You can think of it as very similar to a BIOS password on some PC motherboards.

But, it sounds like your experience with the system login password screen is improved over what you initially reported (?) Could just be a system caching issue (where various system processes are still optimizing (getting used to the fresh install), which might take a few hours, maybe even a couple of days before the system settles down to whatever "normal" status is on your system.
My suggestion - if you are going to move to a more complex password for system login - do it now. Consider that you may need to think about that password as you type it in (waiting for response, rather than hoping the characters will follow on their own. This may be related partly to the idea that you are NOT ONLY logging in to your user, you are also unlocking the FileVault.
Use your Mac, in its present condition, for a week or two. You may find that the password screen delays go away (or you don't notice then), and Life is Good™ - or, you need to try something else, because the system STILL doesn't respond as you like.
Use your Mac. Be Happy.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

The firmware (EFI) password uses - well - firmware. Even earlier in the boot sequence than the system login. It's not related to any software or system that might have installed on the internal drive (or anywhere else, as far as that is concerned) That login window is produced purely in ROM. I guess there's no cursor (to show character position) because there's no provision for that in that screen. (It's not an OS, as such, just an unlock screen, eh?)
You can think of it as very similar to a BIOS password on some PC motherboards.

But if my firmware update was screwy then I thought maybe it could impact the OS. (Unlikely, but that was my thinking.)

But, it sounds like your experience with the system login password screen is improved over what you initially reported (?) Could just be a system caching issue (where various system processes are still optimizing (getting used to the fresh install), which might take a few hours, maybe even a couple of days before the system settles down to whatever "normal" status is on your system.

I shut it down and let it set a bit - I was busy doing something else. When I started up my Retina, same issue again.

It seems like it happens 50% of the time.

When it acts up, I can watch the cursor on the macOS screen pause for 1/2 a second, then flash twice quickly, then hang for 1/2 a second and then a steady flash.

And that is what is causing the issue... I am down typing in my password as it hangs thus leaving out characters.

It is almost like when my old Mac's HDD was nearly full and I'd be capturing streaming audio and sometimes when I'd type in an app nothing would happen and then I'd suddenly see half a sentence.

Of course on a new Retina with SSD and nothing on it that is unacceptable!

My suggestion - if you are going to move to a more complex password for system login - do it now. Consider that you may need to think about that password as you type it in (waiting for response, rather than hoping the characters will follow on their own. This may be related partly to the idea that you are NOT ONLY logging in to your user, you are also unlocking the FileVault.

True, but I have FileVault 2 on this old Mac with Mountain Lion and never have that issue. (Before my HDD drive crashed two summer's ago, I had El Capitan on this and never had that issue either.)

Use your Mac, in its present condition, for a week or two. You may find that the password screen delays go away (or you don't notice then), and Life is Good™ - or, you need to try something else, because the system STILL doesn't respond as you like.
Use your Mac. Be Happy.

I have been tinkering with this Retina setting it up all Fall. And in the last 30 days I have gotten most of the fancy stuff done.

Not sure when the issue started, but what worries me is that it could be an omen for more troubles down the road.

****
Just to be clear...

1.) Is it safe to say that my clone from last week would be "contaminated" with whatever issue is affecting my internal HDD?


2.) Do you think this is an OS issue or a hardware issue?


3.) If I learn how to build a USB Sierra installer, and I wipe my internal SSD and do a clean install of Sierra, and the issue persists, and then I installed my clone back onto my internal drive, in theory I should be right back where I am today, right? (If this is a problem that can't be fixed, it would be nice to avoid having to reconfigure my whole Mac again if the clean install didn't improve things.)

Why does this stuff always seem to happen to me??

When I bought my first Retina in Summer 2016, it was DOA - Dead On Arrival...

Maybe there is something wrong with this replacement Retina and I was unlucky enough to not discover it until 18 months after the fact?

Seems like Apple builds crap these days...

 

[Mr_Brightside_@]

Please just do a clean install before you let yourself jump to conclusions.

 

[DeltaMac]

...
Not sure when the issue started, but what worries me is that it could be an omen for more troubles down the road.

****
Just to be clear...

1.) Is it safe to say that my clone from last week would be "contaminated" with whatever issue is affecting my internal HDD?
No... But try a reload.

2.) Do you think this is an OS issue or a hardware issue?
Yes, I agree - although I would lean toward software. good reason to try a reload

3.) If I learn how to build a USB Sierra installer, and I wipe my internal SSD and do a clean install of Sierra, and the issue persists, and then I installed my clone back onto my internal drive, in theory I should be right back where I am today, right? (If this is a problem that can't be fixed, it would be nice to avoid having to reconfigure my whole Mac again if the clean install didn't improve things.)
Yes, If you have a good backup/clone, and you do a wipe and restore, you may be good to go. And, your issue may have disappeared during the process. Only one way to find out, eh? But, I would try a reload first. That might do the trick, too.

Why does this stuff always seem to happen to me??
Pure luck, I suppose (but then you only listed one thing. That's not as convincing as "Always seems to happen to me". Kind of a broad brush for a single computer)

When I bought my first Retina in Summer 2016, it was DOA - Dead On Arrival... (That can happen in the best of times, which is one reason Apple provides a warranty)

Maybe there is something wrong with this replacement Retina and I was unlucky enough to not discover it until 18 months after the fact?
Perhaps, but I doubt that. (Wasn't this the laptop that was just sitting unused for most of that time? Maybe I have you confused with another poster here )

Seems like Apple builds crap these days...
I understand your feelings, a little bit, but I think you have reached an incorrect conclusion.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

Thanks for the responses, @DeltaMac.

Yes, this computer has been laying around for the last year untouched. And it frustrates me to no end that I couldn't set it up after I bought it, in case there were issues like my first Retina that was DOA. (But life simply wouldn't allow that.)

I have decided to finish the guide I am working on since I have good momentum and don't want to lose my place.

Then when I have time - which I never do - maybe in a week or two I can jump in and tackle this issue.

I guess one "silver lining" is that all of this is definitely making me more knowledgeable about Macs, although I have a long ways to go before I am at a DeltaMac or Mr_Brightside_@ or Fishrrman or Weaselboy level!!