Would you buy a refurbished?

[Ambrosia7177]

I think I found a refurbished MBP that meets my needs (e.g. removable SSD), but am unsure if that is a safe bet.

I spoke with the company, and they offer a 90-day warranty.

This is a mid 2015 MBP.

Is this a safe gamble coming from a seemingly reputable reseller?

(Unfortunately, Apple no longer has the MBP I want in stock...)

 

[rhett7660]

I have bought refurbished before, in fact my 2011 MBP is a refurb. What is the return policy and what exactly does the 90 warranty cover?

 

[Ambrosia7177]

I have bought refurbished before, in fact my 2011 MBP is a refurb. What is the return policy and what exactly does the 90 warranty cover?

It says it covers all hardware except keyboards and mice.

I'm torn what to do... What bothers me is even if I buy this and it works great, in 3 years I will have the same issue of not being able to buy a MBP that doesn't have a soldered in SSD.

 

[rhett7660]

It says it covers all hardware except keyboards and mice.

I'm torn what to do... What bothers me is even if I buy this and it works great, in 3 years I will have the same issue of not being able to buy a MBP that doesn't have a soldered in SSD.

I hear yeah, with my 2011 I am still able to update/upgrade my ram and ssd. I have been able to put off a new purchase but, even I know this one is getting long in the tooth.

What about the return policy? Do they have a no questions asked, as long as it works they will take it back?

Again, I have had my 2011 now for just over 6 years.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

I hear yeah, with my 2011 I am still able to update/upgrade my ram and ssd. I have been able to put off a new purchase but, even I know this one is getting long in the tooth.

What about the return policy? Do they have a no questions asked, as long as it works they will take it back?

Again, I have had my 2011 now for just over 6 years.

There could be a restocking fee if I just returned it, but I dont expect to do that unless I get something not advertised.

I think this is a good deal, and then I'd have two identical fairly new MBPs, but then maybe I should just bite the bullet and get a brand new MBP. Of course, then I have the issue of not being able to take my SSD with me when I get rid of it and that is an issue for me and my business.

So you think getting a mid 2015 refurbished should be safe, right? And my only risk would be that I am getting a computer that will become outdated quicker than a 2017.

 

[BenTrovato]

I like refurbs in terms of value. Personally I'd only buy it direct from Apple and get the extra year warranty. A 90 day warranty wouldn't do it for me.

 

[rhett7660]

There could be a restocking fee if I just returned it, but I dont expect to do that unless I get something not advertised.

I think this is a good deal, and then I'd have two identical fairly new MBPs, but then maybe I should just bite the bullet and get a brand new MBP. Of course, then I have the issue of not being able to take my SSD with me when I get rid of it and that is an issue for me and my business.

So you think getting a mid 2015 refurbished should be safe, right? And my only risk would be that I am getting a computer that will become outdated quicker than a 2017.

FYI, those are the ones I am looking at. Safe is a very elusive word when it comes to buying older tech. I am hoping to get a few years out of it like my 2011. If it is a good enough deal and you are ok with the return and warranty. Not really much to lose.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

I like refurbs in terms of value. Personally I'd only buy it direct from Apple and get the extra year warranty. A 90 day warranty wouldn't do it for me.

What are the chances that something would fail after 90 days?
[doublepost=1506017584][/doublepost]

FYI, those are the ones I am looking at. Safe is a very elusive word when it comes to buying older tech. I am hoping to get a few years out of it like my 2011. If it is a good enough deal and you are ok with the return and warranty. Not really much to lose.

I wish I had a better solution of how to protect my data when you can no longer take out the hard-drive...

A lot of people say wiping it clean is sufficient, but I don't feel so comfortable with that idea know there are lots of hackers out there smarter than me. And I have seen how easy it is for someone to recover data when they know what they are doing.

It seems like I am the only person that is even remotely worried about this topic!

 

[BenTrovato]

What are the chances that something would fail after 90 days?
[doublepost=1506017584][/doublepost]

I wish I had a better solution of how to protect my data when you can no longer take out the hard-drive...

A lot of people say wiping it clean is sufficient, but I don't feel so comfortable with that idea know there are lots of hackers out there smarter than me. And I have seen how easy it is for someone to recover data when they know what they are doing.

It seems like I am the only person that is even remotely worried about this topic!

Sorry, don't have the stats mate. Google should those failure stats if you are interested

 

[macs4nw]

.....Of course, then I have the issue of not being able to take my SSD with me when I get rid of it and that is an issue for me and my business......

What are the chances that something would fail after 90 days?..... I wish I had a better solution of how to protect my data when you can no longer take out the hard-drive...

A lot of people say wiping it clean is sufficient, but I don't feel so comfortable with that idea know there are lots of hackers out there smarter than me. And I have seen how easy it is for someone to recover data when they know what they are doing.....

I would be hesitant to by anything (in that price range) with a mere 90 day warranty, especially a laptop like that, which is essentially a business tool for you.

If concern for sensitive business Data is what gives you reason to pause, why not just get an external SSD drive, hooked up via TB, to store all that confidential info, instead of on the internal SSD. Couldn't that be an option?
Best of Luck!



PS: At this moment I see one single 15" 2015 MBP in Apple's Refurb Store @ $1699 ..... you could check that out.
It is also a mid-2015 model with a 2.2GHz quad core i7, and 256GB of flash storage, and you'll get the one year warranty, optional AppleCare, and the usual return privileges. If it appeals to you, better act fast!

 

[Ambrosia7177]

I would be hesitant to by anything (in that price range) with a mere 90 day warranty, especially a laptop like that, which is essentially a business tool for you.

Good to know.

If concern for sensitive business Data is what gives you reason to pause, why not just get an external SSD drive, hooked up via TB, to store all that confidential info, instead of on the internal SSD. Couldn't that be an option?
Best of Luck!

Well, someone else suggested that, but I never got an answer on my concerns...

If I used an external SSD, would a lot of my data still end up on my internal SSD? After all, when I open "Patent Design 374.doc", I imagine that file on my external drive gets copied into memory on my MBP plus it gets copied/cached/whatever on my internal drive. Then there are things like bookmarks, email, etc that all would definitely be stored on my internal drive.

So while most of my data would be secure on an external SSD, I would imagine someone who knows what they are doing, and/or has access to the right tools, could still get a lot of sensitive info on me and my company even if I used an external SSD.

Right?

PS: At this moment I see one single 15" 2015 MBP in Apple's Refurb Store @ $1699 ..... you could check that out.
It is also a mid-2015 model with a 2.2GHz quad core i7, and 256GB of flash storage, and you'll get the one year warranty, optional AppleCare, and the usual return privileges. If it appeals to you, better act fast!

Yeah, I saw a couple 15" MBP's that should have removable drives, but ironically I'd much prefer a 13" since I am always traveling.

Thanks!

 

[macs4nw]

.....If I used an external SSD, would a lot of my data still end up on my internal SSD? After all, when I open "Patent Design 374.doc", I imagine that file on my external drive gets copied into memory on my MBP plus it gets copied/cached/whatever on my internal drive. Then there are things like bookmarks, email, etc that all would definitely be stored on my internal drive.....

Not if you make the external your main drive. And memory is volatile, so whatever is cached into memory while you're accessing or manipulating your files, will be gone once you're done and turn off your computer. And even if anything were to be temporarily written to your internal SSD, that would soon after be overwritten by other temporary 'scratch' info. Your permanent Data would only reside on your External.

.....So while most of my data would be secure on an external SSD, I would imagine someone who knows what they are doing, and/or has access to the right tools, could still get a lot of sensitive info on me and my company even if I used an external SSD. Right? Thanks!

Because of more limited write cycles on an SSD compared to an HDD, when you 'erase' an SSD, all you're doing is wiping out the file allocation index, and not the actual Data (MacOS won't let you overwrite your entire SSD drive with zeroes umpteen times like you have the option to do with an HDD), so you're right that someone with detailed knowledge could possibly retrieve info off that drive. To prevent that you could, prior to disposal, overwrite the entire drive with innocuous info like lots of music and/or a whole bunch of movies if you were that concerned.

Don't sweat it, 99.999999% of people couldn't care less about your info, assuming they even knew you as being the previous owner, and couldn't be bothered jumping through multiple time-consuming hoops just to see what you were up to. Also remember, we're all in the same boat when we're ready to replace our various computing devices with soldered-in SSD units.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

@macs4nw,

Thanks for the replies!

Not if you make the external your main drive. And memory is volatile, so whatever is cached into memory while you're accessing or manipulating your files, will be gone once you're done and turn off your computer. And even if anything were to be temporarily written to your internal SSD, that would soon after be overwritten by other temporary 'scratch' info. Your permanent Data would only reside on your External.

So let's say that I broke down and bought a new MBP tomorrow. Lucky for me, I use CCC. Are you recommending that I clone my current MBP to an external SSD, and then boot up from that clone when using my new MBP with soldered in SSD?

And you are saying that by doing that, that nothing should touch my non-removable internal SSD?

Because of more limited write cycles on an SSD compared to an HDD, when you 'erase' an SSD, all you're doing is wiping out the file allocation index, and not the actual Data (MacOS won't let you overwrite your entire SSD drive with zeroes umpteen times like you have the option to do with an HDD), so you're right that someone with detailed knowledge could possibly retrieve info off that drive. To prevent that you could, prior to disposal, overwrite the entire drive with innocuous info like lots of music and/or a whole bunch of movies if you were that concerned.

I spoke with a "certified" Apple technician earlier and he said that once you wipe a SSD it is virtually impossible to recover the data.

If all that is happening is the file allocation index gets cleared, then you would be in deep trouble if someone got your computer/SSD!!!

(These are the kinds of details that I know enough to fear...)

Don't sweat it, 99.999999% of people couldn't care less about your info, assuming they even knew you as being the previous owner, and couldn't be bothered jumping through multiple time-consuming hoops just to see what you were up to.

Someone could care less about my personal data? Maybe.

Someone wouldn't want all of my business data? I disagree.

Also remember, we're all in the same boat when we're ready to replace our various computing devices with soldered-in SSD units.

Yeah, in loads of trouble!!!!!!!!!!

Apparently Tim Cook doesn't care about people's privacy or security or freedom...

 

[macs4nw]

.....So let's say that I broke down and bought a new MBP tomorrow. Lucky for me, I use CCC. Are you recommending that I clone my current MBP to an external SSD, and then boot up from that clone when using my new MBP with soldered in SSD?.....[/USER]

You could do that or alternatively, you could boot from your internal and run all your other non-business software from it, while loading your business software and Data onto your external (and subsequenty erasing all business software and Data from your internal SSD, of course adhering to a sensible back-up strategy), and thereafter strictly run that business software from the external SSD. With Trim and load-leveling, your business Data will be gone from the 'internal' (or at least unintelligible) in no time.

.....I spoke with a "certified" Apple technician earlier and he said that once you wipe a SSD it is virtually impossible to recover the data.....

Again, the word virtually says it all. Only a very determined person with intimate knowledge, the right tools, and lots of time could get Data off that drive, and since you are concerned about that, I recommended the 'junk-overwrite' method.

Someone could care less about my personal data? Maybe.
Someone wouldn't want all of my business data? I disagree......

Only one of your business competitors might care, and you and you only, control who gets your laptop when you're done with it.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

You could do that or alternatively, you could boot from your internal and run all your other non-business software from it, while loading your business software and Data onto your external (and subsequenty erasing all business software and Data from your internal SSD, of course adhering to a sensible back-up strategy), and thereafter strictly run that business software from the external SSD. With Trim and load-leveling, your business Data will be gone from the 'internal' (or at least unintelligible) in no time.



Again, the word virtually says it all. Only a very determined person with intimate knowledge, the right tools, and lots of time could get Data off that drive, and since you are concerned about that, I recommended the 'junk-overwrite' method.


Only one of your business competitors might care, and you and you only, control who gets your laptop when you're done with it.

Let's say I was some big important company (e.g. Apple, Citibank, Federal Reserve bank of NY) and as an organization we used Macs with soldered SSD.

What do you think those organizations will do when their Macs reach end of life?

On one hand, I cannot fathom the Fed Reserve Bank simply donating laptop that could hold the mysteries on the economy on them. But on the other hand, I cannot easily imagine them bulldozing hundreds of thousands of dollars in still useful laptops to protect them.

Maybe nobody cares about *my* data, but I can guarantee you Citibank wouldn't agree with your statement!!

And yet isn't that the fate of the free world as we know it all because of Apple's selfish decisions?

Is every day going to turn in an Equifax day?

Will people forget about privacy and security because you can't have either anymore because of decisons like APple soldered in drives?

Am I the only person on the planet that cares about this?

 

[0007776]

What do you think those organizations will do when their Macs reach end of life?

They will wipe the drives, and then sell the computers off, probably on eBay or something similar where the buyer doesn't know where the computers are coming from. I think those kinds of companies are more concerned with someone trying to steal a laptop and get into it than trying to restore and decrypt a whipped drive on a laptop that the buyer doesn't necessarily know where it came from.

My suggestion to you would be to use FileVault to encrypt your drive, then even if someone was able to recover your wiped drive they would still have to get past the encryption.

Also since you are willing to use a 2015 model and hope to get a few more years out of it you clearly are ok with useing a computer until it is old enough to be worthless so why not buy a new one use it until it dies and then don't resell it?

 

[Ambrosia7177]

@macs4nw,

I'm not so sure it is as easy to erase a SSD as you imply...

https://security.stackexchange.com/questions/12503/can-wiped-ssd-data-be-recovered
[doublepost=1506042760][/doublepost]

They will wipe the drives, and then sell the computers off, probably on eBay or something similar where the buyer doesn't know where the computers are coming from. I think those kinds of companies are more concerned with someone trying to steal a laptop and get into it than trying to restore and decrypt a whipped drive on a laptop that the buyer doesn't necessarily know where it came from.

My suggestion to you would be to use FileVault to encrypt your drive, then even if someone was able to recover your wiped drive they would still have to get past the encryption.

Also since you are willing to use a 2015 model and hope to get a few more years out of it you clearly are ok with useing a computer until it is old enough to be worthless so why not buy a new one use it until it dies and then don't resell it?

You're missing the point...

Because all new Macs do not have removable hard-drives any more.

In fact "soldered on SSD" is misleading, because after talking with a tech today, I found out that the new SSD are part of the logic board!!

Based on the link I just posted, I am very leery that you can "wipe" a SSD clean.

So, yes, I could by a brand new 2017 MBP, run it into the ground, but then at this point the only option I see is shredding the entire computer.

(That makes the environmental and the philanthopist in me cringe!)

 

[0007776]

So, yes, I could by a brand new 2017 MBP, run it into the ground, but then at this point the only option I see is shredding the entire computer.

What are you going to do with the 2015 in 3 years or whenever you get rid of it? It won't have any value then, especially without a hard drive.

 

[Fishrrman]

An Apple factory refurbished Mac, I'd trust. They give you a 1-year warranty, same as new. You can even buy AppleCare if you wish.

From someone else, well, not so much.

 

[chrfr]

Let's say I was some big important company (e.g. Apple, Citibank, Federal Reserve bank of NY) and as an organization we used Macs with soldered SSD.
What do you think those organizations will do when their Macs reach end of life?

"Big Important Companies" would use Filevault and encrypt the disk before any corporate data was put on the computer. This way, recovering the data is impossible and at no point is sensitive information left exposed.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

"Big Important Companies" would use Filevault and encrypt the disk before any corporate data was put on the computer. This way, recovering the data is impossible and at no point is sensitive information left exposed.

You haven't been following along...

FileValut 2 won't do sh** when I want to donate my new laptop - with soldered in SSD - to a school.

Yes, it will, in theory, protect my data, but it will also render the laptop useless to whomever receives it!!

 

[chrfr]

[Filevault]... will also render the laptop useless to whomever receives it!!

No it won't. FIlevault does not prevent the disk from being reformatted.

 

[Ambrosia7177]

No it won't. FIlevault does not prevent the disk from being reformatted.

Really? I thought I recalled trying to reformat a disk with File Vault 2 turned on, and I was unable to do anything...

 

[DeltaMac]

If File Vault is turned on, and you erase the drive, then the erased data is still encrypted, making it un-recoverable.
I'm pretty sure you can do that erasure of an encrypted volume when booted from internet recovery.

Didn't I read somewhere that erasing a File Vault encrypted SSD complies with data protection with US gov, at least to a confidential info level?

 

[chrfr]

Really? I thought I recalled trying to reformat a disk with File Vault 2 turned on, and I was unable to do anything...

Really. You can easily format a Filevault disk, and everything is gone. Permanently.