Trouble with panther on a Wallstreet

[Togglehead]

Ok guys, so have 320mb of RAM....XPostFacto 4, and panther.

When i choose to install from disk....i get a "Still waiting for root device" error, over and over again.......

what am i doing wrong?

 

[ahunter3]

You'll get more specialized help on the XPostFacto board. But in general....

1) XPF is a hack. It works most of the time on most of the models that Ryan whatshisname says it works on...eventually. Be patient. Try different things. What follows is based on my experience with my WallStreet. YMMV, offer void where prohibited, contents may settle, objects in the mirror may be closer than they appear, etc.

2) Do you have some flavor of OS X (10.2.x or 10.1.x?) installed to the hard disk you're trying to intall to? If not, I strongly suggest you do that first. You can nuke it entirely (erase and install), but it will "bless" better, more reliably, if it has already been "blessed" by a version of OS X that is officially supported on the WS.

3) You do have your drive partitioned so that the first partition is of 8 gigs or less, right? And this is the partition you're trying to install to? It has to be that way. OS X has to go onto the first 8 gigs. The partition must be 8 gigs or less, and it must be entirely within the first 8 gigs' worth of HD. An 8 gig partition farther into the drive won't work.

4) Try yanking RAM. For unknown reasons lots of folks do better installing with only 256 MB. You can add the extra RAM after installation.

5) You're using the stock original CDROM (or DVDROM) drive and the stock G3 processor? The WallStreet rocks with the Sonnet G4 processor but you can't boot from CD with the accelerator in. Some 3rd party optical-drive devices may also be problematic.

6) What OS are you booted into at the time you double-click the XPF application icon? XPostFacto is a true carbon app and will run under OS X or OS 9. I actually had better success running XPF when booted in 9. Whichever one you are trying, try the other one.

OH... [Mom mode] and unless you have nothing at all on this computer you intend on preserving: you DID do a comprehensive backup before starting this, yes? [/Mom]

 

[Togglehead]

heh heh....yes i did do a backup of what i need....just a few documents....i didnt get much on here anticipating all this mess....=]

Ok i have one 8GB hdd.....so im assuming i dont need a partition....the only partition on there now holds a bootable OS 9.2.2 which is the OS im clicking on XPF from....i unchacked enable L@ cache due to known problems (but it didnt work with it checked either)

I could try yanking the original 64 chip....leaving it at 256....and i think i'll try that since the next 256 will be here tomorrow....and it'll need to get installed anyway.

Yes, orig WS CDROM drive....

No i do NOT have an exsiting install of OS X. I do have a copy of Panther, and Jaguar. I was under the impression i can load Jag on there without XPF....however it doesnt seem to want to boot to CD.....

Maybe my copies of the OS are borked?

 

[Togglehead]

update!

so i tried using XPF again with only the one 256 chip installed.......my progress was better...but still not right....

this time....it hung at some point...but when i rebooted ...it tried to boot to the panther cd without holding c key......

it wont do that with my jag....with or without holding c key

the panther install gets to a certain point....then flicks the screen backlight off.....then it tells me my system isnt compatible...of course not...no usb

what is verbose? and single user?

 

[Togglehead]

Ha!

im dumb.....

...turns out the Jag discs i had were only training videos....4 volumes.....my friend must have given me the wrong discs (legit)....=[

 

[Togglehead]

another update....me thinks i talk too much...=P

it seems to be working...going through with the install now....i chose to NOT format and install fresh, since i have no way of backing up what i know works in os 9.2

i can always remove 9 later to free up some disk space...right?

oh, and i dont need 600mb of languages do i? ;D

lets hope this works....its installingthe 2 ase subsystem now *fingers crossed*

edit: ok i lied...."there were errors installing the software"...should i try a full fresh install....where i write over OS9? Its no big deal i guess if i lose stuff.....i have a copy of OS 9 handy now....so that shouldnt cripple me right?

 

[ahunter3]

Don't nuke your OS 9 install.

I would try installing again. As mentioned before, you may have better luck (or good luck sooner) installing Jaguar first, assuming you can acquire a copy.

If you bork the installation and it won't boot to anything, do a power-reset (Ctrl-Shift-fn + PowerKey) then hit the powerkey again: a WallStreet will always reset its open firmware to boot OS 9 whenever you do that.

I would definitely give a pass to the languages.

You'd probably be happier with a bigger hard disk. Put most of your nonp-Apple-branded applications on the other partition. Put OS 9 on the other partition, too. The 8 gig drive, if it's the one that originally shipped with this computer (IBM, huge honking 17mm tall 2.5") is noisy and slow. It will work, though.

 

[Unorthodox]

This is one of the nuttiest threads ever.
You gotta start a lemonade stand or something and get enough dough to but a new computer.

 

[ITASOR]

You gotta start a lemonade stand or something and get enough dough to but a new computer.

Some people like playing around with old hardware, or maybe that's all they have. Everyone has to start somewhere, and the wallstreet is still a very, very nice machine.

 

[calebjohnston]

People just don't understand nowadays that not everyone is loaded with cash, or wants to spend it all on computers.

 

[Unorthodox]

People just don't understand nowadays that not everyone is loaded with cash, or wants to spend it all on computers.

Well he just bought 512mb of RAM. So he has some money to spend.
Playing around with old hardware is fun. I myself still fool around with an old G3 PowerMac.

 

[Togglehead]

Well he just bought 512mb of RAM. So he has some money to spend.
Playing around with old hardware is fun. I myself still fool around with an old G3 PowerMac.

heh hehwell yes it is all i have....and actually...i cut a deal with my father for the cost of my ram.....he gets my toshiba PPC out of the deal.....i dont use it.

i found a way to get it further....after the first filed attempt of panther....slam your hand into the desk and huff a bit....then restart the install....get in your car, and sit the thing shotgun doing 85.....byt the time you gethome from work, the drive optimization will be just about done....then it will tell you it was successful, and that you must restart....you do, and then it hangs on the osx boot screen....the little wheel of dashes just stops....

a hunter....i have a copy of os9. maybe i should start with a fresh drive wipe...a fresh os 9 install....then try again.....i think those hopes are better than my finding a jaguar disk and affording it right now....

question though....partitions.....youre saying partition the drive into two sections...for arguments sake in half.....then on the first partition install os9....then the second, x? did i miss something?

I'll see what i can do about the jaguar.....ebay and i dont get get along tilll my credit card goes through....=[

 

[ahunter3]

question though....partitions.....youre saying partition the drive into two sections...for arguments sake in half.....then on the first partition install os9....then the second, x? did i miss something?

On a bigger disk, yes. On your 8 gig HD, no.

Let's say you are able to score a 30 gig disk. Partition it into 2 partitions, an 8 gig partition for Panther and the remaining ~20 gigs for OS 9, applications, documents, etc. You put only the official Apple-branded applications in /Applications folder on your main drive. You don't save your documents or photos or music in the designated folders within /Users/Yourname but instead save them somewhere on the other partition. Result? Your Panther partition doesn't get cramped with files! You have room to breathe, room for the swap files to exist in, temporary disk space for the times when you do updates and upgrades. Remember, you've only got 8 gigs to play with on this side.

Obviously partitioning your existing 8 gig drive, rather than free up space for Panther, is only going to take away space from it.

Sorry you're having so many difficulties.

 

[Togglehead]

Sorry you're having so many difficulties.

dont be silly! sure, im eager, and excited...but i was a PC guy....so you KNOW im no stranger to troubles and things not working right....=P (note: WAS a pc guy)

Anyway, i get it....that kinda how i organize my files already....but thats another story. My current condition is this.

1. Power on, OS9 boot screen, happy mac, then restart.....
2. On restart, OSX boot screen, then hangs.....forced reboot

This will repeat over and over...

Suggestions?

 

[Togglehead]

ok, so with 256 in the machine....i got it to reboot to OS 9.....now how can i re "bless" the system folder so i can rebuild the os 9 install, to retry to the osx?

or...is that not what i should do?

my theory is extension conflicts...or maybe not, but me thinks i should start with a fresh OS 9 install first....then before anything else....do the XPF Panther....just to eliminate anything software related

 

[ahunter3]

ok, so with 256 in the machine....i got it to reboot to OS 9.....now how can i re "bless" the system folder so i can rebuild the os 9 install, to retry to the osx?

or...is that not what i should do?

my theory is extension conflicts...or maybe not, but me thinks i should start with a fresh OS 9 install first....then before anything else....do the XPF Panther....just to eliminate anything software related

You got it to reboot into 9? Is it only rebooting into 9 when you have extensions disabled, or is it booting into OS 9 normally? If you can boot into OS 9 normally, you're fine in 9 and you just need to take another run at installing Panther.

Once XPF does the first reboot, nothing in the OS 9 System Folder is going to have any impact, because the OS 9 code is no longer in RAM.

 

[Togglehead]

so i noticed.....

SO.....actually i reinstalled a copy of 9. This leaving a new copy of 9, the original copy of 9.2, and the borked 10.3 install.

I booted into the NEW OS 9, and ran the installer through there.....chose an Archive and install process, and let it run.....

...it worked....it wokred perfectly actually.

NOW....WHICH copy of OS9 do i remove, and how do i do it? Its telling me i have less than one gig left on my hard drive, but thats all stupid failed os attempts....lol theres no data shy a few mp3s (maybe 200mb)

Id like to have a clean hdd except 10.3 (and software) and OS 9.2.2 (the original if possible)

It DID pick up that 9.2 install in the Classic Preferences of 10.3. I had moved that unblessed 9.2 system folder to another location for extension/controls strip backup purposes....(which im not even sure is necessary on a Mac).....and it recognized that system folde.r..in the directory i put it in....hmmm

THANKS SO MUCH FOR YOUR HELP!!!!!

 

[Togglehead]

i wound up deleting some thing i know i didnt need anymore....

but what is this "previous systems" folder? its 1.1 gigs....can i delete it? i think its the first attempt at panther...that failed. i did do a full archive install though....it asked for my password to throw it in the garbage...

im scared...=P

 

[Togglehead]

except...now with the other 512mb stick installed.....it no longer boots....

it gives me a circle with a line through it...instead of an apple

EDIT: how can i just start fresh? how do i format, then install OS 9?

 

[ahunter3]

i wound up deleting some thing i know i didnt need anymore....

but what is this "previous systems" folder? its 1.1 gigs....can i delete it? i think its the first attempt at panther...that failed. i did do a full archive install though....it asked for my password to throw it in the garbage...

im scared...=P

You can safely trash "previous systems".

You can trash either of the OS 9 systems, as long as the remaining one will work with "Classic". "Classic" lets you run OS 9 within OS X, but it requires MacOS 9.2.2, and will install some extra files first time you run Classic.

Not sure what you mean by "the other 512 MB stick". A WallStreet will, at best, accept one 256 MB chip on the underside of the processor (low-profile sized) and one 256 MB chip on the topside, for a total of 512.

OS X is very very picky about RAM. You may have chips that will work in OS 9 but not OS X.

Whatever boots once should boot again though, if you restore the RAM configuration to whatever it was when you booted successfully.

And once you get it booted into OSX, make a freaking backup!!!!! (You really really really really DON'T want to have to start over from scratch once you finally get it set up!)

 

[Togglehead]

HEH HEH....i meant 256...my fault

well...i just booted to os9 again, and found 5 gigs of previous crap.....im deleting it now.....then i will install OS 9. and update to 9.2

Then XPF...and 10 again....both sticks are the same....and i was working in OSX for a solid half hour before i screwed it up...=P

Again...doing a fresh OS9 install....how can i initialize the HDD, then install fresh?

Youve been so helpful....thanks! I'll keep you posted.

 

[Togglehead]

dear diary, my next installment of mac trouble.....oh......


anyway....i think i figured it out......the PRAM batt is dead.

Everytime i load OSX fine.....restart as many times as i want....no problems.....as soon as i pull the plug and batt....the next time i boot it...it boots to OS 9.

i go into xpost facto and tell it to restart in OSX.....and it hangs....

go figure...its not retaining its boot procedure....this sound logcial?

 

[ahunter3]

a) For your information, you do not need (and should not USE) XPostFacto to switch from OS 9 to OS X. Now that it is installed, just use the OS 9 Startup Disk Control Panel. Since both OS 9 and OS X are installed to the same volume, you will have to click the little disclosure triangle to see both operating systems, but you should be able to pick the OS X System and reboot into OS X; however, if you've just replugged the power cord and your WallStreet shows a green light by the powerkey and the hard drive spins up for a moment, be forewarned that your computer may lock up when you try to load the Startup Disk Control Panel unless you let it boot all the way into 9, reset the date and time, then reboot into 9 and only then use the Startup Disk Control Panel to switch to OS X. "Why not use XPostFacto to switch to OS X?" Because it's a hack. It writes to your disk in some fundamentally important places, in anticipation of having to fool the 10.3.x installer into running on unsupported hareware. It can overwrite things. It can bollix up your operating system. It's a brilliant hack, don't get me wrong, but insofar as you don't need it, don't use it just to switch from one OS to the other. I switch my WS from OS 9 to OS X and back effortlessly without XPF, just using the Startup Disk Control Panel in OS 9 to get to OS X, and doing a Ctrl-fn-Shift-PowerKey reset after shutdown in order to get to OS 9.

b) Yes, sounds like your PRAM battery is dead as a doornail. If your regular expansion-bay laptop battery is working fine and is charged, it will keep the PRAM from going nutso, but otherwise, you're going to be dumped into OS 9 every time you power up. The PRAM battery on a WS is in a truly godawful place, and if you want to try switching it out yourself you're a braver man than I am Gunga Din, and I've swapped keyboard, hard disk, processor daughtercard, and RAM in and out of WallStreets w/o trepidation. The damn PRAM battery is on the underside of the top half of the lower case, right next to the trackpad, so you have to remove a zillion little torx screws and lift the two pieces apart...I seem to recall that it might be necessary to remove the display, the CardBus (PC Card) carrier...ugh! Better to pay someone else to do it, if you ask me.

 

[Togglehead]

ha ha ha ha....once again youre info is wonderful. Ive taken quite a few laptops apart before, and successfully reassembled them....i looked up several instruction sheets on the job and the one on ifixit seems to be the most detailed....i feel confident the job will go fine. The PRAM will arrive tomorrow....=]

Interesting about XPF, i never thought of it that way, and it makes a lot of sense. What confuses me is the startup control panel....is it self explanitory? where is it? do you mean when i boot to OS9 CD, and go to control panels and click startup, i will have the selection of which os to boot?
Also, once set to osx, i see that you reset the PMU to erase that data to get back to os 9....good idea...do you have to reset your clock?

yes...my HDD and light go on for a second when i plug my laptop in....why is that? is that it automatically resetting the PMU because the PRAM is dead? and maybe thats causing OSX to hang on boot....

EDIT: the startup disk panel doesnt have anything....just asks me to select the start up drive, and shows my hard drive....do i have to boot to cd?

 

[ahunter3]

Interesting about XPF, i never thought of it that way, and it makes a lot of sense. What confuses me is the startup control panel....is it self explanitory? where is it?

It's decently self-explanatory. Go to the Apple Menu, go to Control Panels. Among them is the Startup Disk Control Panel. You will initially see something like this.

Click the disclosure triangle and wait a moment and you should see something like this.

You'll see the OS 9 selected, but the OS X will show and you can now click on it to select it as your startup OS, then hit the restart button.

Also, once set to osx, i see that you reset the PMU to erase that data to get back to os 9....good idea...do you have to reset your clock?

No, resetting the PMU doesn't screw with your PRAM so clock should be fine. If you were running Jaguar, or if you were running Panther on a supported machine, you could just select the OS 9 System Folder from the OS X Startup Disk PrefsPane, thereby reversing the process for getting from OS 9 to OS X; but the WallStreet is "old world" and the Panther method of setting open firmware to boot OS 9 isn't old-world compatible, so you end up rebooting into X even though you selected OS 9 if you do this on the Panther/WallStreet combo. So the power-reset trick works instead.

yes...my HDD and light go on for a second when i plug my laptop in....why is that? is that it automatically resetting the PMU because the PRAM is dead?

Yep. You can probably get into X without replacing the PRAM battery if you do the power-reset trick, boot into OS 9, set the clock, reboot in to OS 9 again, and then use the Startup Disk Control Panel to select your OS X and reboot yet again to get into X. But that's a major hassle, you're better off replacing the PRAM battery.

and maybe thats causing OSX to hang on boot....

Decently likely.