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True Detective S2
- Thread starter twietee
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AustinIllini
macrumors G5
I'm really interested to see where this season goes. However, if it develops like last season did, it might take a few weeks to decide if this season is any good.
D.T.
macrumors G4
We're cautiously optimistic, but I've read that it's much more of a traditional story, without the cosmic/supernatural implications.
S1 is going to be a tough act to follow! Easily in my Top 10 series of all time (even though it was kind of a "mini series").
Agreed. S1 is perfect so everything from now on is a huge bonus. Not going to jugde S2 by that, but if it still works in that "universe" or have that ambiguity angle, I'm a happy dude!
AustinIllini
macrumors G5
Just saw episode I, and in typical True Detective fashion, there isn't a ton to spoil. Another case where the plot develops over time.
I will say this: Even if this season isn't as good as the first (It likely will not be), the acting and dialog that makes the series famous has so far carried over to the second season.
I will say this: Even if this season isn't as good as the first (It likely will not be), the acting and dialog that makes the series famous has so far carried over to the second season.
impulse462
macrumors 68020
I agree. I think MM and WH set the bar way too high, but that doesn't mean the show can't have great writing and dialog.
I liked it as well. I prefer the other director though, some shots weren't that great but overall nicely done. Also a plus in my book that the story/characters were all over the place, felt a bit different than the first season which is good imo.
But have to admit that while the dialect/deliverance (looking at you, McConaughey) wasn't nearly as bad to follow than before it's still impossible to pick it all up without subs the first time.
But have to admit that while the dialect/deliverance (looking at you, McConaughey) wasn't nearly as bad to follow than before it's still impossible to pick it all up without subs the first time.
Wow, didn't really see that coming. Series got me hooked already 🙂
Here's an excellent read so far (pulled from imdb):
What hasn't really received much mention is S2's connection to the Oedipus trilogy. I believe this season is connected in the same way S1 is connected to the King in Yellow. Not as a literal retelling, but rather a larger influence that provides signposts about what kind of story we are watching and where it is heading. Just as the King in Yellow portended a horror story wrapped in Noir, S2 is a Greek tragedy disguised as Noir.
Within that Trilogy, we are at the 3rd play: Anitgone. In S2 the character Ani, called by her full name twice so far, as well as the characters around her, bear strong symmetry with the play. Both are strong, stubborn women who act in defiance of the King (In S2 the Mayor and Frank) and (at least in the play) have two brothers that meet untimely ends. One may have already. As well as a sister with whom she is in conflict. As S2 unfolds I think she will emerge as the true protagonist.
Just as in Oedipus, Casper's eyes are gouged out. I think one of the plot twists in S2 will be that, just as in the play, Casper intentionally gouged out his eyes, or had it done. Oedipus gouged out his eyes because he could not bear to see what he had done. And it's quite possible Casper has done something similar. Gouging out one eyes with drops of hydrochloric acid seems awfully precise. We already know he was weak and was tormented by his addiction. Getting involved with Frank may have pushed him to the point where he felt he was in way over his head. It's possible his death is an elaborately staged suicide meant to appear as a murder. Literally. His body was found in the most staged manner possible. He wanted out, he was in over his head, but by staging his suicide as a murder, he achieves some sort of atonement for his sins. A suicide is open and shut, but a murder triggers an investigation with the potential to expose the corruption he appears to have been tormented by (among other things), quite possibly literally (a weak man being strong armed by Frank/Mayor). This is a recurring theme with TD: "legacy" and potential in one's death. Errol Childress believed he would more powerful in death, and in S2 Casper is. His death is the catalyst behind all the action, and he is literally untouchable. He is finally more powerful than those in power. And free.
As a Greek Tragedy, I believe Frank will be the "tragic hero". But true to form, Pizzolatto will subvert the genre. Frank is hardly a sympathetic hero, but we are drawn in by his charisma and the desire to go legit, but he is still basically a villain. I'm reminded of Bob Hoskins in the Long Good Friday. In that movie, Bob Hoskins is a small time gangster that gets in way over his head with the IRA, and things don't end well (one of the best endings ever for the genre). Kelly Reilly is plays a very similar role to Helen Mirren. In S2 Frank may be heading down a path where he gets way in over his head with the Russians, especially if he finds out they double crossed him and attempts to exact revenge. He is a small fish looking for a bigger pond, with a desire to be "one of those old California families". Also known in Greek Tragedy as hubris. Usually does not end well, although Pizzolatto could turn genre on its head and let the bad guy get away. It is Vince Vaughan after all.
As the protagonist, I believe Ani will confirm another theme that will start to emerge within the TD anthology: It's the journey, not the destination. And this may be Pizzolatto's most brilliant sleight of hand. In noir the Red Herring is a common device. In TD, the detective part of the story IS the Red Herring. In S1, the larger mystery was never really solved. They got the bad guy that committed the crime which started the series, but the larger conspiracy was never exposed. We never learn who is the Yellow King (is it Childress, or not?), and while Hart and Cohle did bag some other bad guys, from the evidence, it appears many more are involved (i.e the snuff film). But this is the TD universe. This is horror/tragedy wrapped in noir as existential journey. There are for more powerful and evil forces at work that are beyond ability of the stories' heroes to defeat through the solving of the crime. In the TD universe (and ours in Pizzolatto's world view IMO) the stories are really about badly damaged characters' journey to find some meaning and redemption in what is a sick, F@#$*! world. The mystery, and the solving of the crime is really just the path they choose to find that. For Cohle, the discovery was not finding Errol Childress but sensing his daughters presence when he was near death. But solving the crime lead him to that discovery and life had new meaning. For Ani, she will probably solve some aspect of the crime. Some bad people will die or go to jail. But S2 will be about her journey, and what she finds at the end beyond the solving of the crime itself (a reconciliation of sorts with Father/Sister?). But whatever larger evil exists as part of the crime itself will continue on in some form.
Other observations:
In keeping with Oedipal theme we have what appears to be a incestuous relationship on some level between Paul and his Mother. We are kind of hit over the head with that, but it will be interesting to see where it goes.
One of the criticisms of S1 was the lack of a strong female character. With season 2 already underway what really seems to be lacking in TD, in noir tradition, is a femme fatale. But TD isn't really noir is it.
Here's an excellent read so far (pulled from imdb):
What hasn't really received much mention is S2's connection to the Oedipus trilogy. I believe this season is connected in the same way S1 is connected to the King in Yellow. Not as a literal retelling, but rather a larger influence that provides signposts about what kind of story we are watching and where it is heading. Just as the King in Yellow portended a horror story wrapped in Noir, S2 is a Greek tragedy disguised as Noir.
Within that Trilogy, we are at the 3rd play: Anitgone. In S2 the character Ani, called by her full name twice so far, as well as the characters around her, bear strong symmetry with the play. Both are strong, stubborn women who act in defiance of the King (In S2 the Mayor and Frank) and (at least in the play) have two brothers that meet untimely ends. One may have already. As well as a sister with whom she is in conflict. As S2 unfolds I think she will emerge as the true protagonist.
Just as in Oedipus, Casper's eyes are gouged out. I think one of the plot twists in S2 will be that, just as in the play, Casper intentionally gouged out his eyes, or had it done. Oedipus gouged out his eyes because he could not bear to see what he had done. And it's quite possible Casper has done something similar. Gouging out one eyes with drops of hydrochloric acid seems awfully precise. We already know he was weak and was tormented by his addiction. Getting involved with Frank may have pushed him to the point where he felt he was in way over his head. It's possible his death is an elaborately staged suicide meant to appear as a murder. Literally. His body was found in the most staged manner possible. He wanted out, he was in over his head, but by staging his suicide as a murder, he achieves some sort of atonement for his sins. A suicide is open and shut, but a murder triggers an investigation with the potential to expose the corruption he appears to have been tormented by (among other things), quite possibly literally (a weak man being strong armed by Frank/Mayor). This is a recurring theme with TD: "legacy" and potential in one's death. Errol Childress believed he would more powerful in death, and in S2 Casper is. His death is the catalyst behind all the action, and he is literally untouchable. He is finally more powerful than those in power. And free.
As a Greek Tragedy, I believe Frank will be the "tragic hero". But true to form, Pizzolatto will subvert the genre. Frank is hardly a sympathetic hero, but we are drawn in by his charisma and the desire to go legit, but he is still basically a villain. I'm reminded of Bob Hoskins in the Long Good Friday. In that movie, Bob Hoskins is a small time gangster that gets in way over his head with the IRA, and things don't end well (one of the best endings ever for the genre). Kelly Reilly is plays a very similar role to Helen Mirren. In S2 Frank may be heading down a path where he gets way in over his head with the Russians, especially if he finds out they double crossed him and attempts to exact revenge. He is a small fish looking for a bigger pond, with a desire to be "one of those old California families". Also known in Greek Tragedy as hubris. Usually does not end well, although Pizzolatto could turn genre on its head and let the bad guy get away. It is Vince Vaughan after all.
As the protagonist, I believe Ani will confirm another theme that will start to emerge within the TD anthology: It's the journey, not the destination. And this may be Pizzolatto's most brilliant sleight of hand. In noir the Red Herring is a common device. In TD, the detective part of the story IS the Red Herring. In S1, the larger mystery was never really solved. They got the bad guy that committed the crime which started the series, but the larger conspiracy was never exposed. We never learn who is the Yellow King (is it Childress, or not?), and while Hart and Cohle did bag some other bad guys, from the evidence, it appears many more are involved (i.e the snuff film). But this is the TD universe. This is horror/tragedy wrapped in noir as existential journey. There are for more powerful and evil forces at work that are beyond ability of the stories' heroes to defeat through the solving of the crime. In the TD universe (and ours in Pizzolatto's world view IMO) the stories are really about badly damaged characters' journey to find some meaning and redemption in what is a sick, F@#$*! world. The mystery, and the solving of the crime is really just the path they choose to find that. For Cohle, the discovery was not finding Errol Childress but sensing his daughters presence when he was near death. But solving the crime lead him to that discovery and life had new meaning. For Ani, she will probably solve some aspect of the crime. Some bad people will die or go to jail. But S2 will be about her journey, and what she finds at the end beyond the solving of the crime itself (a reconciliation of sorts with Father/Sister?). But whatever larger evil exists as part of the crime itself will continue on in some form.
Other observations:
In keeping with Oedipal theme we have what appears to be a incestuous relationship on some level between Paul and his Mother. We are kind of hit over the head with that, but it will be interesting to see where it goes.
One of the criticisms of S1 was the lack of a strong female character. With season 2 already underway what really seems to be lacking in TD, in noir tradition, is a femme fatale. But TD isn't really noir is it.
AustinIllini
macrumors G5
impulse462
macrumors 68020
Agree, it was much better. Also I don't get why Colin Farrell's character is so obsessed with taking care of that kid. It's obvious the kid isn't his.
I liked both episodes. Of course it's a slowish start but I don't mind that. Only complaint is (still) direction and editing not being on par with the first season by far. It's not bad by any means, but on a different level imo.
Why shouldn't he be attached to his kid? It's a bit pathological, since it is the only bridge to his 'innocent' life, which he is clinging on, although it isn't really his own offspring and also the result of what cause to that downhill spiral afterwards. Pretty tricky, although I'd agree that it wasn't necessary to make it such an obvious choice actor wise (red hair, obese, whole appearance).
Why shouldn't he be attached to his kid? It's a bit pathological, since it is the only bridge to his 'innocent' life, which he is clinging on, although it isn't really his own offspring and also the result of what cause to that downhill spiral afterwards. Pretty tricky, although I'd agree that it wasn't necessary to make it such an obvious choice actor wise (red hair, obese, whole appearance).
AustinIllini
macrumors G5
So the slowish start to the series has given way to an absolutely fantastic finish. The last 90 minutes should be fantastic.