Trying to decide, Palm Pre or iPhone 3gs

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

Apparently not. Nor the meaning of the word "assumptions."

I'm merely repeating what I've been reading (not assuming) from actual owners (again, no assumptions involved) regarding their actual build quality issues. Feel free to Google to confirm if you'd like. Or try PreCentral.net

And based on those actually reported build quality issues, if they turn out to be epidemic, and if those build quality issues result in a heavy return rate, Palm could be in trouble. (Note the conditional "if" with nothing assumed nor implied.)

Do I need to be any more clear?

I've also read that Elvis is still alive, but I won't be repeating it on a forum about Elvis. When you repeat something you give it legitimacy and assume there's validity to those claims and extrapolating those incidents to possibly include a larger percentage of affected users than the iPhone.

What you're saying is "If Apple doesn't fix censorship in the app store, the iPhone might be a failure." Sure, there's some ruckus being stirred up on forums, but until some stats come out, even conditionally bringing up the issue is assuming that it is one. You're saying IF these statements are true, then PALM is in deep trouble. I get it, you used if. But until there's evidence of these statements being part of a larger problem, it's close to irrelevant.

EDIT: Look, I agree that Palm is in a dire financial situation. But when you say things like "Steve job's fanatical obsession to detail/design is amazing again!" or something like that it just reeks of fanboy. I've retuned 4 iPhones. They're designed well, but the Pre, without reliable statistics, is no worse off than the iPhone in the returns due to build quality department. Because of this, it's irresponsible to bring it up when someone is trying to decide between the two. That's all.

 

[QCassidy352]

Pick your service provider then your phone.

That makes sense if you live in an area that only gets good service from one or two major carriers. I'm in metro boston - all four national carriers are very good. Maybe they're not all exactly equal, but they're all more than adequate.

So yes, if only Sprint or AT&T gets decent service in your area then obviously go with the smartphone on that carrier. But for a lot of people both will be just fine.

 

[LagunaSol]

I've also read that Elvis is still alive, but I won't be repeating it on a forum about Elvis. When you repeat something you give it legitimacy and assume there's validity to those claims and extrapolating those incidents to possibly include a larger percentage of affected users than the iPhone.

See dgravo's post above.

What you're saying is "If Apple doesn't fix censorship in the app store, the iPhone might be a failure."

Um, where did I say anything like that? What I am saying is that Palm desperately needs the Pre to be a success. Without it, they are doomed.

If the Pre turns out to be a sloppy mess hardware-wise, it means big trouble for them. And based on the reports I've seen, these are design issues, not component issues.

EDIT: Look, I agree that Palm is in a dire financial situation. But when you say things like "Steve job's fanatical obsession to detail/design is amazing again!" or something like that it just reeks of fanboy.

"Fanboy?" The original iPhone is one of the most solidly-built pieces of tech in the world. A thin slab of mainly glass and aluminum with 4 moving parts. That's not "fanboy," that's just a fact. And this is the device the Pre must compete with.

Granted, many people aren't overly concerned with quality (look at Windows' market share), but it sounds like the Pre is not a convincing sell in the hand if the iPhone is in the other hand.

I've retuned 4 iPhones. They're designed well, but the Pre, without reliable statistics, is no worse off than the iPhone in the returns due to build quality department.

I "assume" your returns were probably internals-related, and not buttons falling off/failing, screen cracking on its own, etc.? The Pre will almost certainly have its own internals problems, just like the iPhone. What the iPhone doesn't have to worry about is build quality. Palm has two fires to fight, Apple only one.

 

[MxChino]

See dgravo's post above.
"Fanboy?" The original iPhone is one of the most solidly-built pieces of tech in the world. A thin slab of mainly glass and aluminum with 4 moving parts. That's not "fanboy," that's just a fact. And this is the device the Pre must compete with.

LOL, you protest being called a fanboy then say that?? Sorry, but apple did not invent the candy bar phone. Is it hard to see the monitor with steve's genitalia in your face??

 

[LagunaSol]

LOL, you protest being called a fanboy then say that?? Sorry, but apple did not invent the candy bar phone.

I'm talking build quality not form factor, Einstein.

I've owned candy bar phones before, thanks. None of them were built like an iPhone. Or even close.

Is it hard to see the monitor with steve's genitalia in your face??

Crass. Witless. Juvenile. And completely expected.

Troll Different.

 

[MxChino]

I'm talking build quality not form factor, Einstein.

I've owned candy bar phones before, thanks. None of them were built like an iPhone. Or even close.
.

You're right. No other phone I've ever bought had a cracked housing straight out of the box.

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

Um, where did I say anything like that? What I am saying is that Palm desperately needs the Pre to be a success. Without it, they are doomed.

If the Pre turns out to be a sloppy mess hardware-wise, it means big trouble for them. And based on the reports I've seen, these are design issues, not component issues.

My whole point is that you have no evidence that the Pre will be a sloppy mess hardware-wise. And since you don't have any evidence, you saying it "might be a failure" if something happens is like me saying BMW's new M3 is going to be a failure because it doesn't come with an engine, although my analogy is less believable. The point is, you're bringing up issues without proper evidence. Of course if something bad happens to the product something bad will happen to the company.

I "assume" your returns were probably internals-related, and not buttons falling off/failing, screen cracking on its own, etc.? The Pre will almost certainly have its own internals problems, just like the iPhone. What the iPhone doesn't have to worry about is build quality. Palm has two fires to fight, Apple only one.

Two internals, two awful light-leaks. I agree, the iPhone is built solidly, but there have been well-documented hardware problems with how well things are put together in the first place.

 

[LagunaSol]

My whole point is that you have no evidence that the Pre will be a sloppy mess hardware-wise.

I said if it turns out to be a sloppy mess hardware-wise. And that's not really much of an "if" anymore, as users are griping about build quality (again, see dgravo's post above).

Their hands-on feedback can be considered "evidence," no?

Regardless, debate is irrelevant. Time will sort this one out.

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

I said if it turns out to be a sloppy mess hardware-wise.

And if everyone's iPhones catch on fire then it will be a sloppy mess hardware-wise. You're extrapolating from incidences on a forum. That's all I'm saying. Your argument would make sense if it was purely hypothetical ("if the Palm quality is bad, then Palm will suffer"), but you're trying to legitimize the first clause in that quote by using experiences people have on forums.

You're right though, time will tell. My take? The build quality is inferior to the iPhone for the sole reason that it has a slider mechanism, but it won't result in a high return rate no matter how much people moan on a forum. People who have problems with their products go on forums to gripe. That's why forum "evidence" is not valid.

If 100 people go onto a forum and moan about something, it seems like you think "10 people have a problem, this could spell catastrophe for Palm if the build quality is bad."

I think: "100 people have poorly built phones."

 

[LagunaSol]

That's why forum "evidence" is not valid.

Kinda like the Xbox 360. Oh, wait...

The problem is Palm has a significant competitor in the iPhone. That's the "gold standard" right now. And if you have a phone that twists like Chubby Checker right out of the box (and not by design), and costs the same as the "gold standard" but with half the storage, a smaller screen, and no ecosystem (yet), you bet those build quality issues are going to have a real impact, whether it be in returns or simply lost sales.

Palm needed a home run and nothing less to survive. The ball is still in the air, but it looks like it could fall short or hook foul. May have been the slider pitch.

Again, only time will tell.

 

[GfPQqmcRKUvP]

Kinda like the Xbox 360. Oh, wait...

But that was in such huge numbers it was a problem. Even asking your friends, you knew it was a problem. Seeing 100 people on a message board complain about something is nothing. Talking to your friends and seeing, on average, 4 out of every 10 of them who have a 360 has a problem IS. The difference is that those 100 people are self-selected. They signed up to the forum to either complain or to contribute. Guess why most people sign up...

The problem is Palm has a significant competitor in the iPhone. That's the "gold standard" right now. And if you have a phone that twists like Chubby Checker right out of the box (and not by design), and costs the same as the "gold standard" but with half the storage, a smaller screen, and no ecosystem (yet), you bet those build quality issues are going to have a real impact, whether it be in returns or simply lost sales.

Oh, c'mon. Over the life of the phones the Palm Pre is FAR cheaper than the iPhone in almost every plan combination. Some people don't need/want the storage, and some people want the smaller form factor, and therefore will live with a smaller screen.

We don't know if there are build-quality issues anymore than the iPhone has build quality issues.

 

[LagunaSol]

Seeing 100 people on a message board complain about something is nothing.

The Pre has only been out one month.

We don't know if there are build-quality issues anymore than the iPhone has build quality issues.

I would argue that early owner feedback, as well as device reviews, say otherwise. Though you may be right about "build-quality" issues as I suspect these are ultimately design issues. A bad slider design and a sharp edge beneath the keyboard have nothing to do with how the thing is screwed together.

I've neither used nor owned a Pre, but I've been watching it with some interest (I've always been Palm fan and have owned some of their previous devices). And when owners and reviewers are complaining that it feels "cheap," has gaps in construction and unexpected twisting (that affects the slider action), you have a problem. You certainly didn't see these types of complaints about the iPhone when it was launched.

You can dismiss these reports as inconsequential, but I believe they're telling.

 

[JForestZ34]

The Pre has only been out one month.

Ok the pre haas been out one month. The iphone 3G has been out over a year and they still have light leaks, the chrome bezel on the front is not flush, the silent switch breaks.. Apple has had a year to fix these issues and they still have the same problems.. Looks to me apple's build quality is a little worse than the pre's being they have had more time to address the issues...


EDIT: Also the 3GS iphones seem to be having the same problems as the 3G's.. Oh wait there is a new one that they have to fix now.. ( OVERHEATING)


James

 

[Morn]

Ohh come on. The screen is much more likely to be scratched than dropped. That's why apple picked glass.
And it'll actually survive the majority of drops anyway.

 

[Morn]

Then they would have to go after apple for only letting people use OSX on macintosh hardware then.

The PRE can access the music via a hack and apple in no way (as they stated) guarantees access to itunes this way and they may or may not break that. I guess what I'm saying is palm is making a mistake stating that this is a feature of the pre when its a hack that may break down the road.

While I'd rather like the idea of te government liberating OS X in that way. I really don't think they have a legal justification or right to.
Where the iTunes situation is a very microsoft like abuse of monopoly position situation.

 

[bjb.butler]

I stopped once I read this... If you have good service with ATT, why would you switch... The main use of your cell phone, after all, is the phone part.

 

[slipper]

I stopped once I read this... If you have good service with ATT, why would you switch... The main use of your cell phone, after all, is the phone part.

I am supposed to assume every other cellular company has terrible service, or service less than ATT? Perhaps if Verizon takes over the iPhone exclusivity, i shouldn't switch because ATT is so awesome.

 

[maflynn]

I am supposed to assume every other cellular company has terrible service, or service less than ATT? Perhaps if Verizon takes over the iPhone exclusivity, i shouldn't switch because ATT is so awesome.

Verizon is good, I've always has great service with them. I'm also very happy with the service with AT&T. Sprint on the other hand is a different story. My wife had an awful experience with them, and every other person I know who uses or had used them hates sprint.

 

[kdarling]

Ohh come on. The screen is much more likely to be scratched than dropped. That's why apple picked glass.

Sure, and that's why Apple did NOT use glass in most iPods.

You seem to have forgotten that Apple originally picked plastic for the iPhone. Don't you remember all the moaning and groaning from Apple fans and the press?

"Oh no, it'll scratch just like our iPod screens!"

So Apple changed their minds from all the complaining about something that hadn't even happened yet, and replaced the plastic with glass almost at the last minute.

Of course, then people started complaining about how easily it sometimes broke and that it broke into sharp shards. People are never happy, but Apple users tend to be more vocal and, frankly, more than a little OCD.

 

[Morn]

I seriously doubt that was due to the press.
Probably their own internal damage tests, they couldn't get plastic to tolerate scratches in any satisfactory way over a screen so large.
A plastic screen will get all messed up in normal use.
The glass will only break in unusual circumstances. It basically comes down to this, that the glass is simply much more robust.

 

[frunze]

You know, reading this I can't stop comparing this to any conversation on the subject of politics or religion. If you are "a PC", you will be into the Pre. Myself, I simply couldn't WAIT for the 3Gs release, and couldn't care less about the Pre. From all the reviews I've read, the Pre is where Apple was 2 years ago, with the release of the 1st iPhone, which still is a more sophisticated and better quality device, imho, than Pre, or Android, or Samsung whatever-the-hell-it-is.
Verizon is a decent carrier, but frankly, there's absolutely nothing wrong with AT&T service.
And finally, my 3Gs is faster than a speeding bullet, and I have absolutely NO idea how I EVER lived without an iPhone, ever.

 

[SFStateStudent]

Gawd, another post about the Palm Pre!!! I think there's about 2 million others in the same boat OP!!!

 

[Goona]

Then they would have to go after apple for only letting people use OSX on macintosh hardware then.

The PRE can access the music via a hack and apple in no way (as they stated) guarantees access to itunes this way and they may or may not break that. I guess what I'm saying is palm is making a mistake stating that this is a feature of the pre when its a hack that may break down the road.

AApple develops Macs, OSX, iTunes, iPhones, and iPods. Last I checked Palm doesn't develop iTunes.

 

[Goona]

Seems the Pre may not be selling as well:

http://digitaldaily.allthingsd.com/20090709/pre-sales-slow-again/

 

[ctt1wbw]

See dgravo's post above.



Um, where did I say anything like that? What I am saying is that Palm desperately needs the Pre to be a success. Without it, they are doomed.

If the Pre turns out to be a sloppy mess hardware-wise, it means big trouble for them. And based on the reports I've seen, these are design issues, not component issues.



"Fanboy?" The original iPhone is one of the most solidly-built pieces of tech in the world. A thin slab of mainly glass and aluminum with 4 moving parts. That's not "fanboy," that's just a fact. And this is the device the Pre must compete with.

Granted, many people aren't overly concerned with quality (look at Windows' market share), but it sounds like the Pre is not a convincing sell in the hand if the iPhone is in the other hand.



I "assume" your returns were probably internals-related, and not buttons falling off/failing, screen cracking on its own, etc.? The Pre will almost certainly have its own internals problems, just like the iPhone. What the iPhone doesn't have to worry about is build quality. Palm has two fires to fight, Apple only one.

Have you ever noticed that if you say Apple's products are awesome or Steve Jobs is a fanatic about quality, then you are labeled as a fanboy? Nevermind the fact that Steve Jobs is one of the three actual founders of Apple Computer and that most people who love Apple products have been using them for a long time, like around 28 years for me. I have a 3G iPhone and it's simply the most amazing and user friendly phone/pda/media player/GPS navigation system/toy that I have ever had. I can't even imagine what I would say if I had a 3GS...