Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
TSMC May Win Bulk of A9 Orders Due to Better Production Yield
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
For sure!!!
Either way... in my mind Samsung were a rubbish business partner. Apple trusted their components arm to make a stack of things for the iPhone. Rather than say 'cool!!! We supply components for Apple, they are good friends' they went and said 'hey we could put the components together ourselves, install Android and make some more cash!!!'
They're free to do that... just like Apple's free to dirch them over time (and leave them without the components profits).
I agree. The fate of the iPhone A9 would've been sealed by now and it's questionable if Apple would risk it at this point given how much demand there'll be for that chip in a new cutting edge process. I still think GlobalFoundries and Samsung are making it at the 14nm.
On the other hand it gets a bit more interesting when you consider the possibility of Apple going with TSMC for the A9X incarnation. Apple could easily treat the A9 and the A9X as two different chips, and the A9X will be much less critical.
For the media Apple's use of Samsung made great articles to prop up their story of "Apple hates Samsung but can never leave Samsung", especially when the lawsuit between the two were really heated. In fact just a few weeks ago this was the headline, "When it comes to chips, Apple just can't quit its Samsung habit".
It also made a great talking point for the resident Apple naysayers/skeptics at Macrumors. Whenever someone would denounce Samsung, they would point out Apple's use of Samsung semiconductors to portray Samsung as a great tech company and Apple as a tech weakling at the mercy of powerful Samsung - I'm exaggerating of course, but you get the gist. Such remarks were often accompanied by some hilariously ignorant claims regarding the corporate structure of Samsung and the basic business rules but that's another story.
Now that Apple really did without Samsung for the iPhone 6, the media just don't care because the story isn't as juicy and even the "tech" writers often do not know much about the chip business. Thus even though TSMC is making tens of millions of A9 chips so many still believe somehow Samsung is the only company capable of making chips for Apple.
Personally as a non-engineer I just find the whole industry movement really fascinating. TSMC is a giant but Samsung and their partner GlobalFoundries are making aggressive moves to eat away at the leader's marketshare, and the technology is moving so fast it's exciting just to keep up with rumors and changes. It's like watching a football game combined with Pirates of Silicon Valley.
TSMC is already supplying all iPhone 6 chips. However because it didn't hurt Apple in any visible way nor involved any lawsuit, the media didn't report TSMC's new role, no click baiting worthy articles from that.
Also since things went smoothly all those people including here at Macrumors who predicted doom&gloom about TSMC are now staying quiet. Even though they were repeatedly told that TSMC is the biggest fab in the world and actually can make lots of chips, believe it or not. I remember trying to communicate that fact to someone who posted in this very thread. Unfortunately he really wasn't interested to learn anything, just wanted to take the opportunity to make something fit the narrative he's been pushing here and complained instead when the facts didn't fit his MO.
As mschmalenbach summed it nicely here, Apple couldn't really have multiple suppliers for a single chip. However the A9 and future chips are a special case because GlobalFoundries and Samsung share exactly the same technology and thus they both are producing chips for Apple already.
So now we have TSMC vs. GloFo/Samsung as suppliers of chips for Apple. Apple already worked with both companies and shown they can get great chips out of both processes, so the next move would be interesting. I would think Apple will try to get both parties involved whenever possible so that they can be assured of future pricing competition between the suppliers and technological innovation.
My guess is that it's a pink iPhone 6 delivered by a unicorn. Otherwise they probably have TSMC-fabbed A8 chips.
Last edited:
So to make a good business partner, they need to make themselves completely dependent on Apple?
Spot on!
Though nothing wrong with a little bit of hypocrisy on MR
gotta love those threads of people returning thier Apple products till they get one with Samsung components.----------
You realise those poor quality components are in apple products ? So by your logic, the apple products we own have poor quality.
I'm pretty sure most people would prefer the poor quality Samsung LCD, ram or SSD over the superior LG etc counterparts
I'm not saying they did anything dodgy... but the tables turn when you start competing with somebody in one of their core business areas (when there's an existing relationship that involves them leaking details of their next product to you so that you can help them deliver it).
Not saying Samsung did anything illegal. However, I don't think they're a good business partner (for you) if they're your #1 competitor and in order to produce your next 'secret' phone you need to order all the parts from them a few months in advance.
Samsung: Hmmmmmm Apple just ordered 30 million A9 CPUs with these specifications. We are releasing our Note 6 a week before them, MAKE SURE WE HAVE BETTER CHIPS THAN THE ONES APPLE ORDERED EVEN IF IT'S BY 1Mhz!!!!
Apple: Hmmm I wonder why Samsung knew the specs of our new phone in advance and pretty much copied them but with 1 more Mhz, 1MB more RAM and a screen that's 1cm bigger with 2 more pixels... and their ad campaign says we're copying them just with slightly lower specs. DOH!!! WHY DID WE GIVE THEM THE SPECS?!?!?
Yeah I think that makes them a poor business partner for Apple. Great business partner for Google!!!
I just hope TSMC can hire a decent graphics designer with all the money they'll make off the A9. Good Lord, what an eyesore of a company logo. I can't tell if they design chips or the control rod position board at a 60s-era nuclear power plant...
If you think Samsung decides how good their SoC are based on Apple, you're kidding yourself.
I own a first generation retina 15, I really did not want a LG one, there were various posts on MR on this issue.
Also Samsung RAM and SSD are very good.
Of course this will depend on its generation of product, but from my experience Samsung produce good quality components.
Funny; if you're using a Apple product right now most likely it has a Samsung component in it. You have inadvertently bashed Apple products.
The hate for Samsung is so strong it twist people's thoughts.
There are various posts on MR basically about everything, most of them are just baseless claims.
Seem like a worn down solider who has been through a few campaigns on MR...... 2014 is almost over
have a happy new year!Seem like a worn down solider who has been through a few campaigns on MR...... 2014 is almost over
Just a few campaigns ? I'd say a lot of campaigns on MR !
HAPPY NEW YEAR TO YOU
Please justify this claim.
All we know about A8 manufacturing is that TSMC makes 70% of them, and Samsung makes 30%. There are NO statistics about TSMC's devices being worse or better on average than Samsung's. There is also no reason to believe that TSMC is making fewer devices than it promised.
A more sensible interpretation of all dual manufacturing partners is not technology based, it's not based on vague (and unfounded) slurs about how terrible TSMC (or Samsung) are, it's not even based on pricing --- it's based on VOLUMES.
A constant on-going problem Apple has (the problem of being so successful) is the volumes they need of high end parts. This prevented them from going to finger-print readers across the line last year, it prevented them from going to 2GB of RAM in phones this year and (IMHO) it prevented them from going to triple core in phones this year.
TSMC (and Samsung) have a certain level of capacity they can offer. That's simply that. It doesn't make sense for either company to open a whole new fab just to make Apple parts --- they have to fit Apple's requirements in with their lifetime expected usage for a particular fab and a particular process node. We KNOW that TSMC are at capacity at 20nm based on the complaining by every other company (eg Qualcomm or nVidia) that they can't manufacture their newest chips in 20nm until Apple is sated.
[Intel appear to be the one company that does have excess capacity at low nodes BUT
(a) Intel uses very different design rules from the rest of the industry, so it's not trivial to simply ship an existing design to Intel and have them manufacture it
(b) Intel cannot decide its future strategic direction. Half the company thinks x86-uber-alles; half the company thinks Intel's comparative advantage is in process, materials, and low-level circuits but NOT in CPU design. So right now we have this pathetic straddle where they're kinda sorta trying to sell foundry services, but with so many conditions attached that the service they offer is not actually useful to anyone who might compete with x86 in a serious way.]
----------
This all feeds into what I said. To meet the massive spike in demand that phones generate each year, Apple has to start stockpiling the CPUs 9 months or so in advance. This means, among other things, that if Apple WANTED to launch a large-screen iPad Pro in say March or April, with expected lowish demand (and high price) they could launch it using the A9 (or A9X) because those CPUs are already in production.
Also just because A9's start their run doesn't mean it's over for A8's. There will be iPhone6s as the midrange, then low-end of the phone line for a few more years, AND it is highly likely that (as soon is phone demand is satisfied) the A8 will move into the Apple TV update. (Primarily because the A8 can handle h.265 video, and Apple is going to move to that as its standard video distribution medium as soon as feasible.) Likewise for iPod Touch.
It seems possible. But to any rumors I've read that Samsung has been producing any portion of the A8 chips or A8x is false.
More news on GloFo (and Samsung since they share process libraries): moving more equipment to the New York facility in anticipation of ramp http://wccftech.com/globalfoundries-delays-14nm-full-story/
Sorry mate, if you don't understand colloquial use of the English language then I'm afraid you'll just have to follow me all over macrumors and make corrections.