TSMC Reportedly Completing Designs for 10-nm A11 Chip With Early 2017 Availability

[MacRumors]

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) has begun to "tape out" the design for Apple's A11 processor built on a 10nm FinFET process, according to industry sources (via DigiTimes). Taping out refers to the initial design of the chip having been completed for creation of the masks that will be used to print the actual chips, although further tweaks are likely as test production is carried out.

Following the final result of the design cycle for the A11, TSMC is expected to achieve certification on its 10nm manufacturing process in the fourth quarter of 2016, and deliver product samples to Apple for validation in the first quarter of 2017. TSMC is expected to obtain about two-thirds of its overall A11 chip orders directly from Cupertino.

The same sources indicate that TSMC could begin small-volume production for Apple's A11 chips as early as the second quarter of 2017, which would generate revenue for the company in the following quarter.

Apple currently operates a two-year upgrade cycle for its smartphones. All things remaining the same, that would mean the A11 would be headed for the "iPhone 7s", the likely successor to the next-generation iPhone 7 which is slated to launch this fall. However, last month Barclays analyst Mark Moskowitz speculated Apple will skip its traditional "S" upgrade cycle next year altogether.

Citing industry sources, Moskowitz said the Cupertino company won't debut a spec-bumped, internally upgraded "iPhone 7s" in 2017, but a completely overhauled "iPhone 8" with "major design changes" and new, next-generation features like wireless charging. Either way, the A11-powered iPhone models would therefore be expected to launch in the second half of 2017.

In February, TSMC reached a deal with Apple to be the sole manufacturer for the A10, which is expected to be the processor included in the iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus. The deal was thought to have been motivated by TSMC's advanced device packaging techniques capable of higher-width memory buses and lower-power operation, which for consumers means better performance and efficiency.

Article Link: TSMC Reportedly Completing Designs for 10-nm A11 Chip With Early 2017 Availability

 

[djbuddha]

My iPhone 6 screen cracked. I ended up ordering an SE from my carrier for a really good price. I typically upgrade every 2 years. (3G, 4, 5, & 6). If I didn't crack my screen I probably could have lasted another year with this phone. (Apple can't fix it either .. The frame is actually bent).

When I read reports like this, I wonder how much more the phone will do from a processor standpoint. I don't think we've hit a ceiling as mobile will grow for a while to come, but when you look back at the iPhone 3G vs 4 and 4 vs 5 the speed differences were large. They were large because the technology was improving over itself almost 10 fold. But as fast as things are now, I wonder how much real increase we're going to feel in newer devices

Now that we're well into the 64 bit era of mobile processors, I want to see how big of a jump from iPhone 7 will be from my 6. I think most of us iPhone 6 owners could hold out for iPhone 7s or 8 or iPhone X lol (10th anniversary phone).

Either way, I'm excited to see what comes.

 

[Markiie]

That 10 year anniversary iPhone (iPhone 7) that gets launched next June is surely going to be something else....


Don't know why everyone is still hung up that this September phone is going to be called the iPhone 7?.....folks, we're getting the same design. I don't know what it will be called but there will not be a 7 attached to the name.

 

[x-evil-x]

My iPhone 6 screen cracked. I ended up ordering an SE from my carrier for a really good price. I typically upgrade every 2 years. (3G, 4, 5, & 6). If I didn't crack my screen I probably could have lasted another year with this phone. (Apple can't fix it either .. The frame is actually bent).

When I read reports like this, I wonder how much more the phone will do from a processor standpoint. I don't think we've hit a ceiling as mobile will grow for a while to come, but when you look back at the iPhone 3G vs 4 and 4 vs 5 the speed differences were large. Now that we're well into the 64 bit era of mobile processors, I want to see how big of a jump from iPhone 7 will be from my 6. I think most of us could hold out for iPhone 7s or 8 or iPhone X lol (10th anniversary phone).

Either way, I'm excited.

I think the jumps on your 2 year plan (exact same as what I've done for 8 years) showed big jumps from 3g-4-5 but going from the 5 to the 6 with the larger screen especially the + didn't feel like a big jump. the 6s+ is a much bigger jump from the 5-6s. I think we should see a big performance jump this year with the 7 coming from the 6. But yea i agree with you phones are fast enough to the point that it isn't annoying to use them like it used to be.

 

[djbuddha]

Don't know why everyone is still hung up that this September phone is going to be called the iPhone 7?.....folks, we're getting the same design. I don't know what it will be called but there will not be a 7 attached to the name.

iPhone 6 SE lol .. I call it 7 because of the pattern, 3 3GS 4 4S 5 5S 6 6S (flagship models on this list) But you're right, Apple can't name correctly lol .. When Phil Schiller went on stage and said "I'd like to introduce the iPhone 5, the 6th iPhone" I knew Apple couldn't count lol. BUT I knew they were Final Cut wizards because that phrase got conveniently edited out of the podcast version of that keynote lol.

 

[8692574]

When Phil Schiller went on stage and said "I'd like to introduce the iPhone 5, the 6th iPhone" I knew Apple couldn't count lol.

1) iPhone 2g
2) iPhone 3g
3) iPhone 3gs
4) iPhone 4
5) iPhone 4s
6) iPhone 5

Did i miss something?

 

[Markiie]

iPhone 6 SE lol .. I call it 7 because of the pattern, 3 3GS 4 4S 5 5S 6 6S (flagship models on this list) But you're right, Apple can't name correctly lol .. When Phil Schiller went on stage and said "I'd like to introduce the iPhone 5, the 6th iPhone" I knew Apple couldn't count lol. BUT I knew they were Final Cut wizards because that phrase got conveniently edited out of the podcast version of that keynote lol.

I'll agree. Their product branding is awful, confusing and unclear.

I'd almost be ok with them just skipping a phone this September and waiting until next June but obviously the shareholders would want none of that.

If i had to guess, i'm going to assume they might just call this year's model the "Pro". I think this years upgrade will be a slightly bigger battery, no 3.5mm headphone port (they will give this huge presentation and spin as to why the lightning port is so much better), A10 TSMC chip, the dual lens camera (that might get people to upgrade alone), and a option for 256GB.

I do think a lot of focus on the September keynote will also go to the Apple Watch 2 which absolutely needs some kind of cell connectivity.

 

[Avieshek]

Now it's confirmed: iPhone 7 is worthless

 

[Nosadge2]

Hopefully they will work on updating their logo soon.

Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Company (TSMC) has begun to "tape out" the design for Apple's A11 processor built on a 10nm FinFET process, according to industry sources (via DigiTimes). Taping out refers to the initial design of the chip having been completed for creation of the masks that will be used to print the actual chips, although further tweaks are likely as test production is carried out.

Following the final result of the design cycle for the A11, TSMC is expected to achieve certification on its 10nm manufacturing process in the fourth quarter of 2016, and deliver product samples to Apple for validation in the first quarter of 2017. TSMC is expected to obtain about two-thirds of its overall A11 chip orders directly from Cupertino.

The same sources indicate that TSMC could begin small-volume production for Apple's A11 chips as early as the second quarter of 2017, which would generate revenue for the company in the following quarter.

Apple currently operates a two-year upgrade cycle for its smartphones. All things remaining the same, that would mean the A11 would be headed for the "iPhone 7s", the likely successor to the next-generation iPhone 7 which is slated to launch this fall. However, last month Barclays analyst Mark Moskowitz speculated Apple will skip its traditional "S" upgrade cycle next year altogether.

Citing industry sources, Moskowitz said the Cupertino company won't debut a spec-bumped, internally upgraded "iPhone 7s" in 2017, but a completely overhauled "iPhone 8" with "major design changes" and new, next-generation features like wireless charging. Either way, the A11-powered iPhone models would therefore be expected to launch in the second half of 2017.

In February, TSMC reached a deal with Apple to be the sole manufacturer for the A10, which is expected to be the processor included in the iPhone 7 and iPhone 7 Plus. The deal was thought to have been motivated by TSMC's advanced device packaging techniques capable of higher-width memory buses and lower-power operation, which for consumers means better performance and efficiency.

Article Link: TSMC Reportedly Completing Designs for 10-nm A11 Chip With Early 2017 Availability[/QUOTE]

 

[Tycho24]

That 10 year anniversary iPhone (iPhone 7) that gets launched next June is surely going to be something else....


Don't know why everyone is still hung up that this September phone is going to be called the iPhone 7?.....folks, we're getting the same design. I don't know what it will be called but there will not be a 7 attached to the name.

That's ADORABLE that you think that!!! =)
They may introduce a new "iPhone Pro" in addition to the standard lineup for 10 year, but there most certainly will be an iPhone 7 this year; let's don't be ludicrous.

 

[2457282]

Will we ever see laptops running the Arm chips? My wife's Mac Air is running out of gas and I think we will need to replace it soon. Would love to invest in the iPad Pro, but don't think it is ready to fully replace the laptop (mostly because iOS is not there yet). So if they put OSX on an ARM chip device, I would be really happy.

 

[BMcCoy]

I think the comment about editing out Phil's comment was not that he was wrong (he was correct, as your list shows) but more that Apple don't want to draw attention to the mismatch between the iPhone name and its actual generation.

And as time goes on, that gap gets wider, with 5c, 5s, 6, 6+, 6s, 6s+, se... meaning the next release will be the 14th iPhone model!

1) iPhone 2g
2) iPhone 3g
3) iPhone 3gs
4) iPhone 4
5) iPhone 4s
6) iPhone 5

Did i miss something?

 

[djbuddha]

1) iPhone 2g
2) iPhone 3g
3) iPhone 3gs
4) iPhone 4
5) iPhone 4s
6) iPhone 5

Did i miss something?

Why is called 5 when it was the 6th phone? Lol

And before anybody says "it's the fifth design" .. That's wrong too.

(Design counter lol):

1 - iPhone 2G
2 - iPhone 3G / 3GS
3 - iPhone 4 / 4S
4 - iPhone 5 / 5S

--

So again, if it's Apple's 6th phone .. Why was it ever called iPhone 5? Branding is one thing, but the sentence "I'd like to introduce iPhone 5, the 6th iPhone" made me laugh and declare, that Apple seriously can't count lol. The thing is, iPhone 4 was correct.. And 4s made sense as it was an upgrade to the 4. Apple could have easily skipped numbers (and they're probably going to, given the rumours about this phone coming in September vs the phone in 2017).
[doublepost=1462552578][/doublepost]

Will we ever see laptops running the Arm chips? My wife's Mac Air is running out of gas and I think we will need to replace it soon. Would love to invest in the iPad Pro, but don't think it is ready to fully replace the laptop (mostly because iOS is not there yet). So if they put OSX on an ARM chip device, I would be really happy.

It'd be nice, but the x86 instruction set that allows Windows to run on Macs would have to be implemented first to these ARM chips.

 

[wizard]

Will we ever see laptops running the Arm chips? My wife's Mac Air is running out of gas and I think we will need to replace it soon. Would love to invest in the iPad Pro, but don't think it is ready to fully replace the laptop (mostly because iOS is not there yet). So if they put OSX on an ARM chip device, I would be really happy.

Personally I'd love to see an ARM based laptop running OS X! I doubtful that will happen though. More so I'm afraid Apple would make it into a MacBook with all of one port, if they did make an ARM based Laptop.

Having both a MBP and an IPad I can honestly say an iPad. Isn't ready to replace a laptop. Or more specifically iOS isn't ready to replace any laptop operating System. You throw a keyboard on an iPad and it can be an effective document creation environment. The problem with iOS is document handling, that is moving the days cement between apps or to other devices. At that point iOS sucks so bad I can't ever seeing it being used to replace conventional operating systems.

So will we get what we want? I don't see any signs of it happening but on the other hand if it did Intel's stock would crash. Intel is in enough trouble as it is, Apple ditching Intel in even one laptop would have people dumping Intel stock like mad men.

 

[extrachrispy]

Will we ever see laptops running the Arm chips? My wife's Mac Air is running out of gas and I think we will need to replace it soon. Would love to invest in the iPad Pro, but don't think it is ready to fully replace the laptop (mostly because iOS is not there yet). So if they put OSX on an ARM chip device, I would be really happy.

FreeBSD, the upstream for Apple's userspace and syscall layer, runs on ARM, so this isn't at all far-fetched.
[doublepost=1462555528][/doublepost]

The problem with iOS is document handling, that is moving the days cement between apps or to other devices. At that point iOS sucks so bad I can't ever seeing it being used to replace conventional operating systems.

Now that iOS devices can access iCloud Drive, is this still an issue? Certainly Apple's own document apps can save to their iCloud silos, and third-party apps can read/write over scp and webdav.

 

[wizard]

It'd be nice, but the x86 instruction set that allows Windows to run on Macs would have to be implemented first to these ARM chips.

This is the thing that people get wrong, it wouldn't need to support Windows at all. Your iPhone doesn't support Windows and neither does you iPad so why would it be a requirement for a "NEW" product. Note the new here, an OSX based ARM device does not need to replace the i86 stuff right away. If they implemented some sort of iOS compatibility the machine would have a massive amount of software compatibility right out of the box. This especially when you consider all the open source available for the OSX OS. Plus Apple wouldn't launch until they had all the traditional i86 OSX apps running on the platform.

In any event the idea that you need to run Windows is quickly becoming a niche value, a very small niche value.

 

[extrachrispy]

10nm is utterly astonishing. This is only one order of magnitude larger than the wavelength of a 1eV electron.

 

[2457282]

Why is called 5 when it was the 6th phone? Lol

And before anybody says "it's the fifth design" .. That's wrong too.

(Design counter lol):

1 - iPhone 2G
2 - iPhone 3G / 3GS
3 - iPhone 4 / 4S
4 - iPhone 5 / 5S

--

So again, if it's Apple's 6th phone .. Why was it ever called iPhone 5? Branding is one thing, but the sentence "I'd like to introduce iPhone 5, the 6th iPhone" made me laugh and declare, that Apple seriously can't count lol. The thing is, iPhone 4 was correct.. And 4s made sense as it was an upgrade to the 4. Apple could have easily skipped numbers (and they're probably going to, given the rumours about this phone coming in September vs the phone in 2017).

I have been ranting about Apple's product naming convention (actually the lack of one) for a while. Bottom line is don't try to figure it out -- If apple can't figure out how to properly name things there is no point in us guessing.

It'd be nice, but the x86 instruction set that allows Windows to run on Macs would have to be implemented first to these ARM chips.

It is very sad to think that we are beholden to an ancient x86 instruction set, because people want to run Windows on a Mac. Truly sad, but you are probably correct on this assessment.

Personally I'd love to see an ARM based laptop running OS X! I doubtful that will happen though. More so I'm afraid Apple would make it into a MacBook with all of one port, if they did make an ARM based Laptop.

Having both a MBP and an IPad I can honestly say an iPad. Isn't ready to replace a laptop. Or more specifically iOS isn't ready to replace any laptop operating System. You throw a keyboard on an iPad and it can be an effective document creation environment. The problem with iOS is document handling, that is moving the days cement between apps or to other devices. At that point iOS sucks so bad I can't ever seeing it being used to replace conventional operating systems.

So will we get what we want? I don't see any signs of it happening but on the other hand if it did Intel's stock would crash. Intel is in enough trouble as it is, Apple ditching Intel in even one laptop would have people dumping Intel stock like mad men.

Yes your statement (that I bolded) is what I said, so we agree there.

The funny thing though is that the core of both OSX and iOS is the same. It is the UI layer that is different. So it is not impossible to establish proper file structure to the iOS UI, but it would need to be tailored to the touch UI. I actually don't think it would all that difficult to get iOS up to spec as a laptop killer. The problem of course is when is Apple ready to kill their own laptop.

 

[wizard]

FreeBSD, the upstream for Apple's userspace and syscall layer, runs on ARM, so this isn't at all far-fetched.

It isn't so much an issue of technology, ARM already supports Linux and FreeBSD fine. Rather it is Apples willingness to produce such a machine that is an issue.

[doublepost=1462555528][/doublepost]

Now that iOS devices can access iCloud Drive, is this still an issue? Certainly Apple's own document apps can save to their iCloud silos, and third-party apps can read/write over scp and webdav.

Actually it is a huge problem considering the way one can use a conventional operating system. Say I want to extract some data out of a machine or lab experiment. In Mac OS I can created a script to pull the data, pre process the data and morph it into a form for business apps like Number of Excel. Can't do that on iOS as one doesn't have access to the file system, BASH or Python. Python is actually the preferred route here. On Windows one normally would do a lot of this directly in Excel with more modest scripting external to excel.

The problem is the smooth transfer of files from one app to the next. In Mac OS it is easy to set up a script like described above that runs lets say every 8 hours. Beyond that lets not even get into the issues of trying to get iOS to talk to a serial port. You might get lucky with a tool that supports an Ethernet connection but this isn't often the case. When it comes right down to it there are many issues that make iOS a difficult replacement for any other operating system, file handling is just a bit easier to explain.

Oh one other thing iCloud Drive would be verboten in many locations. It is a terrible solution to begin with but even worst is the security risk.
[doublepost=1462557637][/doublepost]

I have been ranting about Apple's product naming convention (actually the lack of one) for a while. Bottom line is don't try to figure it out -- If apple can't figure out how to properly name things there is no point in us guessing.




It is very sad to think that we are beholden to an ancient x86 instruction set, because people want to run Windows on a Mac. Truly sad, but you are probably correct on this assessment.

Back in 2008, when I got back into Apple products, I really thought that i86 and the ability to run Windows was huge. Things change though and I never did see Windows as a huge issue for my personal use. If my employment had take a different direction it might have been a bigger issue.

Today I have almost zero need to run Windows. Further my current employer wouldn't consider a Mac No mater how superior it is, nor how bug or malware free. So the i86 issue is pretty much dead with me.

Yes your statement (that I bolded) is what I said, so we agree there.

The funny thing though is that the core of both OSX and iOS is the same. It is the UI layer that is different.

Yep I know that but as long as Apple keeps apps from easily accessing data created by other apps it is dead in the water as far as a platform to service tasks commonly done on other platforms. The fact that this would be easy to correct but yet Apple hasn't kinda indicates that there is no solution forthcoming.

So it is not impossible to establish proper file structure to the iOS UI, but it would need to be tailored to the touch UI.

Actually the UI has little to do with this at the moment. It has more to do with the way Apple restricts what apps can access.

I actually don't think it would all that difficult to get iOS up to spec as a laptop killer. The problem of course is when is Apple ready to kill their own laptop.

You see this is where you go off the rails. First iOS would need dramatic changes to become a viable laptop OS. Some of the issues have been discussed already but there are many more. Beyond that they aren't killing their own laptops they are instead evolving the platform. This is no different than the Mac Book debut, it didn't kill the laptops it just changed the equation. In other words being a laptop does not imply i86.

 

[Rocketman]

It isn't so much an issue of technology, ARM already supports Linux and FreeBSD fine. Rather it is Apples willingness to produce such a machine that is an issue.

In other words being a laptop does not imply i86.

Windows runs on Watch. Maybe Classic can be ported to ARM? For a laptop please use 2x or 4x chips. Heck install a PowerPC "co-processor" and run native classic apps.

 

[djbuddha]

This is the thing that people get wrong, it wouldn't need to support Windows at all. Your iPhone doesn't support Windows and neither does you iPad so why would it be a requirement for a "NEW" product. Note the new here, an OSX based ARM device does not need to replace the i86 stuff right away. If they implemented some sort of iOS compatibility the machine would have a massive amount of software compatibility right out of the box. This especially when you consider all the open source available for the OSX OS. Plus Apple wouldn't launch until they had all the traditional i86 OSX apps running on the platform.

In any event the idea that you need to run Windows is quickly becoming a niche value, a very small niche value.

I get what you're saying and you're not wrong. The issue at hand is that while the mobile workspace is getting very good at handling more complex tasks, it's still not ready to overhaul OSX. As far as the needs of running any x86 based software, keep in mind that professional users who buy Apple's other lines (Mac Pro for example) would not switch to an iOS based machine (yet). Maybe in the future, but not yet.

If Apple does away with the x86 platform really soon, it essentially will be working hard to alienate a segment of their business (not the majority), but smart business would dictate that they stick with x86 solutions for their computers for now and leave well enough alone. There's more than enough mobile devices that will support ARM.
[doublepost=1462562036][/doublepost]

It is very sad to think that we are beholden to an ancient x86 instruction set, because people want to run Windows on a Mac. Truly sad, but you are probably correct on this assessment.

The good news here is that in my initial post, I was explaining how we are getting faster and faster in the mobile space. If Apple holds the MacBook line and the iPad gets even better and better, sooner than later it will be a machine that will be up to your tasks. Hang in there!

 

[Jakeoster]

Maybe it's time we see Apple do away with the nomenclature after 2017. Much like we don't see Apple change the name of their MacBooks. It feels like smartphones are maturing in that direction.

iPhone SE -small option
iPhone -standard option
iPhone Plus -big option
iPhone Edition -same as the plus but with more impressive materials, possibly improved durability, and a killer design.

People are paying ridiculous sums of money now to customize their iPhones through companies like Feld & Volk. Seems like something Apple would be onboard with and possibly offer a range of iPhone Editions in exotic materials and own this new market.

 

[manu chao]

Why is called 5 when it was the 6th phone?

Solely to ensure that people like you get your knickers into a twist over it (and thus provide the rest of us with some entertainment). Works beautifully every time.
[doublepost=1462570673][/doublepost]

Windows runs on Watch.

Windows doesn't run on a watch, a Windows emulator runs on a watch. There is nothing even remotely close to Bootcamp for the watch. The difference between an emulator and native booting is probably a factor of 5x in speed (depends very much on the emulator).
[doublepost=1462570958][/doublepost]

Your iPhone doesn't support Windows and neither does you iPad so why would it be a requirement for a "NEW" product.

Photoshop also doesn't run on the iPhone or iPad (there are apps with the word 'Photoshop' in their name but they only provide a small subset of Photoshop's features). There are certain professions as well as amateurs that need Photoshop. And Photoshop is just one example of a large array of applications that are, or are close to, must-haves for certain uses, if only because people have a workflow based around them. These applications don't have ARM versions and won't spring them overnight.

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

I'm looking forward to when they start using Angstroms for line width measurement.

10 nm = 100 Angstroms.

What is sad is I remember the next big thing was going to be "sub micron" widths.