Twitter Has Been Keeping Deleted DMs for Years

[dgreene196]

Which world do you and most people wish to be in?
One where you need to pay constantly to keep using a platform/product, like Apple.
Or one where you have totally free platforms/products to use, and some of your data is used to support their costs?

The latter.

And yes, I do pay to use a social network I feel more comfortable using.

 

[ikramerica]

I’m not a user of twitter and don’t like them. But I don’t see the issue here. If you delete your email account the isp will remove your account data after a set amount of time. But it won’t delete emails sent to someone else. Those emails will exist in perpetuity unless the other party takes action. So why would DM act any differently?

 

[MacBH928]

If you don't agree with a company's privacy policy, you simply don't do business with that company. Easy as that.

this is where you are wrong...
If I was going to buy a house in Europe yes I will read few pages of contracts, but I will not read several pages of privacy policy and terms and agreement for searching "cat videos" on every search engine.

When some things become as ubiquitous as internet services pre-installed in devices you buy and possibly enabled by default, it has to be regulated by the gov. .

When I go to a clinic I do not do any background checks on them I assume the gov. did this for me. Same goes with flying on airplanes, I expect each air-carrier abides to the rules and regulations and safety that was predetermined by the gov.

Imagine if you had to agree to terms and services for eating lunch in every restaurant you visit and every grocery store you shop at... you just expect they abide by the rules and regulations of food and safety standards set by the gov.

 

[5105973]

this is where you are wrong...
If I was going to buy a house in Europe yes I will read few pages of contracts, but I will not read several pages of privacy policy and terms and agreement for searching "cat videos" on every search engine.

When some things become as ubiquitous as internet services pre-installed in devices you buy and possibly enabled by default, it has to be regulated by the gov. .

When I go to a clinic I do not do any background checks on them I assume the gov. did this for me. Same goes with flying on airplanes, I expect each air-carrier abides to the rules and regulations and safety that was predetermined by the gov.

Imagine if you had to agree to terms and services for eating lunch in every restaurant you visit and every grocery store you shop at... you just expect they abide by the rules and regulations of food and safety standards set by the gov.

I don't trust the government for anything. Have you seen the people running it? I wouldn't trust those people to walk my dog without a background check.

And hell yeah, I now run my medical services and hospitals and clinics and doctors and veterinarians past ratings checks and any other checks legally available to me, after some of the experiences I survived when younger and more naive and when we didn't have the resources the internet provides now.

I guess my point is if a service is important to you, and you're entrusting to it anything you consider dear or sensitive, at the very least read the fine print governing the terms.

I know that seems a lot to ask of a society that screams TL/DR at anything that's not summarized in a tiny sound bite. But it's not the government's forte to look out for us on such a level. When entrusted with that responsibility they tend to let too much fall through the cracks anyway. And not all of that is their fault, to be fair. This Twitter thing drills down into quite a level of minutae.

Edit to add: I take it you have necer read or watched any of the things by Anthony Bourdain or Gordon Ramsay on what goes on in many restaurants. 😱

 

[Romey-Rome]

Anybody that knows anything about data knows that nothing is ever deleted. Just a ‘deleted’ column in a database that gets set to 1. Even the local Messages database on iOS last I looked (several versions ago).

 

[truthertech]

You say cynic; I say realist. Also, you're going to have a really hard time supporting the assertion that it's a "major competitive advantage." Good luck with that one.

You're the first person I've ever heard deny that Apple's reputation for protecting your privacy is not a competitive advantage over data harvesters like Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc., and an increasingly valuable edge as consumers become more educated and concerned about a loss of privacy.

 

[john123]

You're the first person I've ever heard deny that Apple's reputation for protecting your privacy is not a competitive advantage over data harvesters like Google, Facebook, Amazon, etc., and an increasingly valuable edge as consumers become more educated and concerned about a loss of privacy.

Then you're not paying attention—at least to smart people in business. Competitive advantage is an economics term with a very specific meaning. It is not the same as a differentiating factor. For something to be a competitive advantage, it has to have impact. And the case for impact is a very specious one.

People saying they care is one thing. People making purchasing and even behavior decisions based on something they claim to "care" about is quite another indeed.
[doublepost=1550436120][/doublepost]

Anybody that knows anything about data knows that nothing is ever deleted. Just a ‘deleted’ column in a database that gets set to 1. Even the local Messages database on iOS last I looked (several versions ago).

Uhhhh. No. Yeah, that's it for this one.

 

[Schrödinger’s]

Does Twitter want us to believe that they didn't know they were storing DM's that were supposed to have actually been deleted? Sure sounds like it. I do not have any real faith in Twitter. Looks to me like they got caught and are looking for a PR spin.

Saimi: ”You are keeping deleted direct messages.”

Twitter: ”That’s what has been consuming all those terabytes then! We’ve been so desperate to find reason for excessive storage consumption for years. In fact, we’ve been pulling our hairs off for that and we’re are all almost bald now. We didn’t have a clue before you told us. Honestly. We’ll fix it straight away! Thanks, man!!!”

Twitterish to English translation: ”Sht, got caught hands in our pants! Need to fix the API straight away to keep snooping batsards away. We like our anatomical pic collection so much. Why couldn’t you just keep your mouth shut?”

 

[WaltCD]

Does anyone out there actually believe that when you delete something from the Internet, it's actually deleted?

No.
If you ever post/send anything, believe it is there for all eternity.
There is no doubt. No afterthought process. Nothing. You put it out there. It's there. Accept it and move on.

 

[john123]

Does anyone out there actually believe that when you delete something from the Internet, it's actually deleted?

No.
If you ever post/send anything, believe it is there for all eternity.
There is no doubt. No afterthought process. Nothing. You put it out there. It's there. Accept it and move on.

Thankfully our friends in Europe are helping change this, and it’s no longer true for many kinds of data for EU citizens.

 

[Serelus]

Then you're not paying attention—at least to smart people in business. Competitive advantage is an economics term with a very specific meaning. It is not the same as a differentiating factor. For something to be a competitive advantage, it has to have impact. And the case for impact is a very specious one.

People saying they care is one thing. People making purchasing and even behavior decisions based on something they claim to "care" about is quite another indeed.
[doublepost=1550436120][/doublepost]

Uhhhh. No. Yeah, that's it for this one.

Lmao, you're just grasping at straws here my friend. To 'smart' people as you mention, the argument here isn't being made specifically in the context of hardcore economics. And this is all ignoring the fact, that a differentiating factor and a competative advantage aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

As for impact, I agree that the users themselves might not be that 'caring' as they claim. However, apple is doing privacy, while everyone else is not. That's an advantage. Even if it's only indirectly. Apple isn't marketing devices as PRIVACY machines at least not to the degree it's noticable in any sort of commercial. But I am sure the smart people in business know that apple has taken advantage of being privacy focused, still. Moves like removing facebooks and twitters integration in iOS/Mac OS by default, are suttle but effective.

It's silly to think something like this wouldn't have an impact, marketing and subconscious stimuli is all you need when it comes to apple. Don't see how that's any different here.

 

[john123]

Lmao, you're just grasping at straws here my friend. To 'smart' people as you mention, the argument here isn't being made specifically in the context of hardcore economics. And this is all ignoring the fact, that a differentiating factor and a competative advantage aren't necessarily mutually exclusive.

As for impact, I agree that the users themselves might not be that 'caring' as they claim. However, apple is doing privacy, while everyone else is not. That's an advantage. Even if it's only indirectly. Apple isn't marketing devices as PRIVACY machines at least not to the degree it's noticable in any sort of commercial. But I am sure the smart people in business know that apple has taken advantage of being privacy focused, still. Moves like removing facebooks and twitters integration in iOS/Mac OS by default, are suttle but effective.

It's silly to think something like this wouldn't have an impact, marketing and subconscious stimuli is all you need when it comes to apple. Don't see how that's any different here.

No grasping required. See previous: few people care enough to affect their buying decisions. Typing more crap doesn't change that fact. Stop shilling for Apple and join the real world with the rest of us.

 

[zen]

I have been talking about this for MONTHS.

Open the iOS Twitter app (iPad here, for example). Go into DMs. Start scrolling down your list of conversations. When you hit the end, keep dragging to scroll, and all your old DMs will load. I’ve been on Twitter for 10 years, and every single deleted conversation is available to me.

 

[MacBH928]

I don't trust the government for anything. Have you seen the people running it? I wouldn't trust those people to walk my dog without a background check.

And hell yeah, I now run my medical services and hospitals and clinics and doctors and veterinarians past ratings checks and any other checks legally available to me, after some of the experiences I survived when younger and more naive and when we didn't have the resources the internet provides now.

I guess my point is if a service is important to you, and you're entrusting to it anything you consider dear or sensitive, at the very least read the fine print governing the terms.

I know that seems a lot to ask of a society that screams TL/DR at anything that's not summarized in a tiny sound bite. But it's not the government's forte to look out for us on such a level. When entrusted with that responsibility they tend to let too much fall through the cracks anyway. And not all of that is their fault, to be fair. This Twitter thing drills down into quite a level of minutae.

Edit to add: I take it you have necer read or watched any of the things by Anthony Bourdain or Gordon Ramsay on what goes on in many restaurants. 😱

You don't need the gov. individuals. You need the "law" . For example, if there was no law to protect your house privacy without search warrant police officers will be in your house all day long. Because there is a law, they still can go in without a warrant, but they are too scared to get into trouble and being sued. Tech companies have nothing to be scared from collecting all your data.

 

[deeddawg]

Anyone who is surprised at this sort of thing happening is naive.

Always, *always*, assume everything put on the Internet is out there forever.

 

[kazmac]

Not surprised. There really isn’t privacy online anymore.

 

[truthertech]

Then you're not paying attention—at least to smart people in business. Competitive advantage is an economics term with a very specific meaning. It is not the same as a differentiating factor. For something to be a competitive advantage, it has to have impact. And the case for impact is a very specious one.

People saying they care is one thing. People making purchasing and even behavior decisions based on something they claim to "care" about is quite another indeed.
[doublepost=1550436120][/doublepost]QUOTE]

[doublepost=1550505262][/doublepost]




Smart people like the CEOs of Google and Microsoft?? Both spending huge amounts of money and effort trying to push privacy features to stem the number of people who choose iOS or Apple products for privacy. Yes, they must obviously agree with you that consumers and business aren't concerned about privacy such that no one is making any purchasing decisions based on Apple's reputation for much better privacy

And your'e right about consumers behaviors, no one is paying for VPN"s, installing ad blockers, using different browsers and search engines, etc.. The entire ad industry could have saved huge amounts of money and time if they had realized consumers weren't changing their behaviors in response to privacy concerns.

 

[john123]

[doublepost=1550505262][/doublepost]
Smart people like the CEOs of Google and Microsoft?? Both spending huge amounts of money and effort trying to push privacy features to stem the number of people who choose iOS or Apple products for privacy. Yes, they must obviously agree with you that consumers and business aren't concerned about privacy such that no one is making any purchasing decisions based on Apple's reputation for much better privacy

And your'e right about consumers behaviors, no one is paying for VPN"s, installing ad blockers, using different browsers and search engines, etc.. The entire ad industry could have saved huge amounts of money and time if they had realized consumers weren't changing their behaviors in response to privacy concerns.

I'm going to be really clear and concise here. Mitigating a concern for some parts of the market doesn't automatically mean that the absence of that concern suddenly becomes a competitive advantage.

But hey, you've decided you're going to think what you're going to think.

 

[Mildredop]

IANAL etc

You what anal?

 

[truthertech]

I'm going to be really clear and concise here. Mitigating a concern for some parts of the market doesn't automatically mean that the absence of that concern suddenly becomes a competitive advantage.

But hey, you've decided you're going to think what you're going to think.

Thanks for the civil discussion. I think it boils down to you are arguing for some arcane definition of "competitive advantage," and I am arguing a real world view where if you have a feature or product that customers desire, and your competitors don't, the billions of dollars you make because customers choose your product for that feature amounts to a hell of an advantage over your competitors.

 

[john123]

Thanks for the civil discussion. I think it boils down to you are arguing for some arcane definition of "competitive advantage," and I am arguing a real world view where if you have a feature or product that customers desire, and your competitors don't, the billions of dollars you make because customers choose your product for that feature amounts to a hell of an advantage over your competitors.

I'm actually just arguing:
1) For use of the term as it's used by business leaders and in MBA programs today taught by those business leaders today. This may seem pedantic, but the definition is actually quite precise, and when terms get used loosely, that contributes to the perception (sometimes correct, sometimes not) that business leaders and those with MBAs use meaningless jargon.

2) I don't think in the real world many people choose the Apple ecosystem for privacy concerns. People certainly care, but I don't, here and now in 2019, think it's the tipping point for more than 1-2 percentage points.

There are techniques in market research that measure this exact kind of thing, such as conjoint analysis. Even then, there's the gap between stated purchase intent for Bundle A versus Bundle B versus actual behavior. But it's at least closer to the truth.