U.S. Federal Trade Commission Sues to Block Nvidia's Planned Arm Acquisition

[Seoras]

I'm pretty sure what happens to ARM has no effect on Apple including licensing.
Apple only licenses the instruction set it doesn't use ARM's architecture.
From what I've read, Apple also has a perpetual license on using that instruction set.
Nvidia can't squeeze Apple out of using ARM or hold them to ransom.
Apple were the original investor in ARM when it was spun out of Acorn Computers.
The Apple Newton used an ARM processor I believe.

 

[CWallace]

As others have noted, Apple's ISA licenses cannot be meddled with regardless of who owns ARM.

And honestly, Apple will likely eventually leave the ARM ISA behind and develop their own custom ISA for all of the Apple Silicon family.

 

[crazy dave]

If this gets blocked, there should just be an industry consortium put together to purchase it and maintain its development and licensing model.

This would be nice, almost ideal, but I don’t know how easy it would be to structure such a thing that also wouldn’t have antitrust implications (ie replace Nvidia with any subset grouping of their customers and you still have many of the same issues) … almost a coop model but for multinational corporations?

 

[Chloros]

The winners on these forums. Wow

 

[Fabercon]

By the time this gets resolved, as with most antitrust actions, it probably won't matter anymore. AT&T put itself back together, Netscape is gone, Sprint's continued existence hasn't made mobile service cheaper, etc, etc, etc...

This is a blocking of a merger because of potential monopoly dominance.

AT&T was a monopoly that was split up. The power of Bell (as it was known back then) was just too great, and one result of the breakup allowed the Bell Atlantic division to operate independently... and that new company eventually rebranded to "Verizon".

Netscape still "exists" as Mozilla Firefox. Just a different branding, but I am not aware of any monopoly action against Mozilla.

The Sprint merger was different. Originally AT&T offered a buyout but that was rejected. And at that time Sprint's impact in the mobile carrier world was much less of a concern once T-Mobile (a German telecom) came on the scene in the USA. When T-Mobile initiated the merger, it was felt by regulators that combining Sprint and T-Mobile would strengthen the position of both companies and reduce market saturation of AT&T and Verizon. You are right that it didn't necessarily make service cheaper but keep in mind that there is a huge expenditure in getting the 5G network rolled out. So while we may have the same cost for service, the quality and speed of service has been improved.

 

[lkrupp]

I didn’t know Intel had lobbyists.
Meanwhile Apple is probably working on a Rosetta 3 that will run ARM code.

What’s that supposed to mean? Apple is a co-founder of ARM and has a perpetual license. Nvidia could do nothing to prevent Apple from using ARM technology even if they wanted to.

 

[Nicky G]

Whoa, this is unexpected. I'm not a huge fan of acquisitions and consolidation of competitors, but I'm not sure that's what this is, and I'm not sure I like the precedent...

CPU/GPU integration is obviously important this leaves fewer fully integrated competitors out there.

I'm open to arguments in favor though.

NVIDIA can already do anything design-wise with Arm, like Apple and other companies. They are not limited. However, they obviously want more of an ability to unilaterally control the future of Arm development, as well as any potential business advantages owning Arm might provide (and obviously they think there are business advantages to buying Arm).

 

[Cosmosent]

If NOT the FTC, it would be the British Gov't !

Either way, I'm in favor of it !

 

[Freeangel1]

DARN! I was really looking forward to this deal.....

 

[progx]

I didn’t know Intel had lobbyists.
Meanwhile Apple is probably working on a Rosetta 3 that will run ARM code.

More like getting a RISCV license which would make it an easy change. SoftBank approached Apple to buy it, but they turned it down. They said they couldn’t abide by the open licenses and wouldn’t allow others the access Arm currently allows. NVIDIA came into the picture afterwards.

You didn’t know Intel had lobbyists…? Intel has been influencing legislation for years, you think they compete fairly? Apple, Microsoft, Qualcomm and so many other tech companies bribe—- I mean pay for their representation.

 

[Cosmosent]

What’s that supposed to mean? Apple is a co-founder of ARM and has a perpetual license. Nvidia could do nothing to prevent Apple from using ARM technology even if they wanted to.

There are thousands of current companies that would be hurt if the deal when thru, & probably tens of thousands in the future that would be locked out !

 

[Cosmosent]

More like getting a RISCV license which would make it an easy change. SoftBank approached Apple to buy it, but they turned it down. They said they couldn’t abide by the open licenses and wouldn’t allow others the access Arm currently allows. NVIDIA came into the picture afterwards.

Apple very-likely turned it down for the simple reason they knew the FTC would never approve it if they were acquiring ARM.

 

[Cosmosent]

SoftBank CEO is a brilliant player

Look into WeWorks

 

[progx]

Apple very-likely turned it down for the simple reason they knew the FTC would never approve it it they were acquiring ARM.

That and there wasn’t any benefit owning it either. Apple still has an ARM license, but they’ve been on the same instruction set for a while. I think it’s ARM64 Cortex v8?

 

[cocoua]

So even the FTC agrees x86 is the past, only guys dont recognized this yet are Intel sharholders…

"innovative next-generation technologies”

 

[Cosmosent]

As much I love Nvidia GPU, please block Nvidia. I really don't want other competitor falter because of Nvidia changes the policy anti-competition practice and this potentially can harm Apple, Qual and many smaller companies from development for better technologies.

We need diversity in technologies. <- whatever that means.

Diversity to me, means Apple needs "App Discovery" competition more than anything.

They are obsessed with apps for the Young & the Dumb.

Witness today's iPhone App of the Year !

I'm perfectly OK if they hang-on to that part of their "curated" iOS App Store.

But, they should be forced to release the other part into the Wild, where "App Discovery" completion could trigger a Renaissance of App Discovery

That's the kind of Diversity this App Developer is looking for right now !

 

[44267547]

The pandemic and chip shortage has gone to show us how important chips are to the future of every facet of life. It's probably good there is an increased focus on this area of the economy, particularly given the absurd amounts NVIDIA is charging for their latest GPU's pre-acquisition.

Absolutely. And look at the auto market in comparison. Chip shortage is changing forever in terms of vehicle manufacturing delays and shortages, where there really is no deadline to see a return to normalcy in that industry.

 

[Cosmosent]

That and there wasn’t any benefit owning it either. Apple still has an ARM license, but they’ve been on the same instruction set for a while. I think it’s ARM64 Cortex v8?

Agree, there is NO benefit to Apple owning ARM.

In fact, it would drain resources from other projects if they did.

 

[CWallace]

Apple also owning ARM would likely negate the advantage they had over other ARM ISA licensees when they extended the ISA with things like 64-bit years before ARM added it to the "official" ISA and it became available to any ARM ISA licensee.

 

[huge_apple_fangirl]

The US would have to be crazy to block this deal. ARM is some of the most important semi IP in the entire industry. If NVIDIA owns them it becomes de-facto US-controlled. And Qualcomm is the one complaining? They’re one of the most anticompetitive companies out there. FTC should reopen their investigation into them instead of blocking this.

 

[mjtomlin71]

I didn’t know Intel had lobbyists.
Meanwhile Apple is probably working on a Rosetta 3 that will run ARM code.

Funny... But, Apple has nothing to worry about. They have a perpetual architectural license, basically meaning they own their own ARMv8 architecture and have extended it to suit their own needs.

 

[elvisimprsntr]

Apple is already working on RISC-V

Apple Possibly Exploring Open-Source Alternative to Arm Architecture

Apple may be exploring the possibility of using an open-source alternative to the Arm architecture, which it's been using in its products for...

www.macrumors.com

 

[mjtomlin71]

That and there wasn’t any benefit owning it either. Apple still has an ARM license, but they’ve been on the same instruction set for a while. I think it’s ARM64 Cortex v8?

As a base architecture yes, as required by the license... but that's where the resemblance ends. It's been extended and optimized well beyond that at this point. Some have jokingly said ARM has "back ported" all of Apple's enhancements to develop the ARMv9.

 

[temende]

I guess the US government is fine with its country perpetually being a second-fiddle player in the semiconductor world.

 

[LoggerMN]

Long term ARM's place in the CPU market is going to fade as RISC-V slowly rises to compete. This may actually accelerate that, if Nvidia embraces RISC-V it validates it and will speed it's growth. This could put a cost squeeze on ARM that reduces their ability to spend on R&D, further accelerating their slide into history. An Nvidia purchase probably would have kept ARM relevant for longer, even if held captive by NVidia strong arming customers to buy both CPU and GPU from them.