U.S. Government to Investigate Sideloading and Web App Restrictions on iOS

[Beautyspin]

How is Apple "abusing" the App Store?

Apple Faces Antitrust Investigation In India For Alleged Abuse Of Dominance

So finally, Apple Inc. one of the largest Silicon Valley giants, has also come under lens of India's evolving Antitrust regime.

www.mondaq.com

Apple Faces Antitrust Investigation In India For Alleged Abuse Of Dominance

So finally, Apple Inc. one of the largest Silicon Valley giants, has also come under lens of India's evolving Antitrust regime.

www.mondaq.com

App Store: The Schiller Cut

Like the Apple logo, “developer goodwill” has no price tag. But Phil Schiller’s decade-ago idea to start dialing down the revenue split — in favor of developers — comes pretty close to assigning it one.

daringfireball.net

There are similar actions in Russia, Japan, and god knows how many countries.

 

[I7guy]

The government wants NFC access to be available to 3rd Parties because Apple is using it as a means to differentiate. They do not have any right to.

We’ll they do.

It is a chip on a user's phone and it should be available to all without prejudice.

Why should it?

In the EU or for that matter in any country, the data protection laws are stricter for banks compared to what Apple's so called laughable data privacy efforts.

Apples data orivacy efforts are certainly “laughable” to you, because there is no comparison at scale. If you look at the windows and Trojan horses, malware etc, embedded in executables, Apples data privacy efforts look very good.

They can actually be fined in Billions for data breaches.

They already threatened once to pull out of the UK. Maybe they should pull out of the EU rather than having their ecosystem look like android.

If Apple had not been abusing its App Store monopoly,

What app store monopoly. Show me a finding in a court of law.

there would not have been the need for sideloading and alternate app stores.

Apple wants complete control of its ecosystem. Because it wants the experience for its consumers. You are free, however to have another ecosystem.

It is all Apple's fault that they are being regulated in such a way.

Maybe, but they are control freaks. And it’s not over till it’s over. While apple has a minority share, their business model is massive, expecting not to be legally entangled for various reason is silly.

 

[Philip_S]

A mobile device needs to be on all the time because it's also a communication device. I wouldn't want to be facing the equivalent of a BSOD if I have to call 911.

If you can force a reboot the standards require you to be able to call 112 as soon as it boots. Also, even now an iPhone can hang when trying to open the dialer app (usually when the storage is full and there’s no ram).

Apple Wanted to use webapps as the only apps for ios and users dont wanted that lol. now they complain they cant make webapps

They wanted to make apps that Apple didn’t approve of and get good performance. It’s still what people want, it’s just that the options that aren’t too hard have changed.

Looking forward to articles by MR on issues related to exploited phones or bricked phones from side-loading and all the complaints about Apple when they refuse to fix them under warranty.

If a userspace program can brick hardware from an unprivileged user account, that’s a fairly fundamental flaw with the OS and with the device firmware, especially since there’s supposedly no way to re-flash the firmware

The more viable solution would be for the EU to regulate Android so that it's actually "open" like Google claims. Then consumers can choose between centralized and decentralized options in phones.

They’d also have to mandate Android be completely scrubbed of all spyware, which would be even more disruptive to android packagers’ business model than altering the App Store terms or un-crippling side-loaded iOS apps.


Also this time it’s the US not the EU

The success of the App Store already provides the answer. If a majority of app developers preferred the "run your own global store on the internet" approach then they would have stuck with desktop/laptop and the App Store would have failed.
.

I don’t think that’s it, because the Mac and windows app stores aren’t anywhere near as successful despite the heavy marketing in windows or gatekeeper in MacOS. (The only App Store app I use that isn’t from Apple is affinity photo, and I don’t get Xcode through the App Store because the stand-alone installer is more convenient.)

I think the main reason is that people were already used to paying for lousy games and outright money wasting junk like crazy frog ringtones or premium rate astrological texts on their featurephones when the iPhone launched, and that just carried over, whereas it took a long time for consumer acceptance of that kind of thing to bleed across to the desktop (and it still hasn’t really caught on).

And EU doesn’t recognize APIs as something you can patent or copyright

With unreal epic gets around that by making it a condition of getting access to the unreal engine, which you need to do any development work, and they require the person who did get access to it to make that a condition of any licensing or sales to anyone else (though I don’t know if anyone has raised that as a price maintenance issue: it’s morally equivalent but the special nature of copyright means it’s probably legal). The only way to work around it would be to get a throwaway company in a tax haven to develop a game, sell it to you, and then you distribute it without any Epic files.

Though now that I think about it, that might be workable for iOS apps, since the libraries are already on the phone

 

[Philip_S]

They already threatened once to pull out of the UK.

They threatened a capital strike (which is something no company should ever be allowed to become significant enough to do without being under direct state control), but they didn’t threaten to actually completely leave British jurisdiction because that would mean renouncing or divesting all their assets within the UK, and that includes their copyrights, patents, their database rights in their maps etc, trademarks, and so on.

The UK might be a ruin compared to 120 years ago, but that would be a bloody dangerous move even if the country was Tuvalu.

 

[usagora]

Apple Faces Antitrust Investigation In India For Alleged Abuse Of Dominance

So finally, Apple Inc. one of the largest Silicon Valley giants, has also come under lens of India's evolving Antitrust regime.

www.mondaq.com

Apple Faces Antitrust Investigation In India For Alleged Abuse Of Dominance

So finally, Apple Inc. one of the largest Silicon Valley giants, has also come under lens of India's evolving Antitrust regime.

www.mondaq.com

App Store: The Schiller Cut

Like the Apple logo, “developer goodwill” has no price tag. But Phil Schiller’s decade-ago idea to start dialing down the revenue split — in favor of developers — comes pretty close to assigning it one.

daringfireball.net

There are similar actions in Russia, Japan, and god knows how many countries.

Yep, all allegations and opinions. I simply disagree with them. Obviously every developer would like to keep a higher percentage, but they're using Apple's platform and knew that from the start. It's not like Apple is even taking half, let a lone the majority. And furthermore, even if I did agree that Apple was being unreasonable, let the market itself decide whether it's fair instead of the government sticking its nose in. If developers continue to develop for iOS, then obviously they think its worth it. If enough stop, then Apple will get the message. There's no reason to change anything if developers are willing to pay.

 

[Premium1]

This is such a disingenuous argument. Forcing iOS to have a mechanism to allow third party app stores and sideloading introduces a very big security risk vector and potential vulnerabilities, forcing this on all users for the "benefit" of a vocal few that are completely welcome to "vote with their wallets" and go to Android, Fire (Android based), Tizen, or Linux phones (eg, Purism).

There is more competition in the smartphone and app store markets than there is in cell providers.

Oh man, break out that tin hat. Someone "jailbreaking" or "sideloading" on their device doesn't make your device any less secure. Get out of here with that.

 

[Premium1]

With all due respect, if you do not like it, then buy Android. My issue with this crass government overreach is that once side-loading becomes available, the apps I normally trust will vacate the App store and I'll have to get them from the Wild West. Of course that is what normally happens for other operating systems, like Android, but then again I put much more sensitive information on my Apple devices than I otherwise would precisely because of the walled garden. Lawmakers should butt out, with the exception perhaps of making Apple guarantee security of all apps in the app store if there is a walled garden (the supposed justification for the iOS ecosystem).

So all apps will magically leave the app store if you are allowed to sideload? Because that is what happened on android right? No apps on the app store since everyone can just pirate and sideload? L O L

 

[ryan102]

Has anyone mentioned that Apple should pull out of the US market yet?

So think that’s Japan, China, the EU and possibly the US. Thank god Apple can still setup shop in Ghana!

 

[Wanted797]

you shouldn't be installing apps from devs you do not trust. maybe you should just stay in the garden.. its all about choice.

Even the best companies can have their package compromised.

If you want choice. Choose android?

 

[M3gatron]

Source?
I support several large organizations, one has over 10,000 users worldwide, and they don’t allow Android devices for VPN access.
If you need more proof, do your own research.

Side-loading will ruin developers. Software piracy will go overboard. Just ask a real developer about it.

Yeah I was convinced this will be the answer a small anecdote that doesn't mean much.
And an organisation with 10k users isn't that large, there are much larger organisations than that, that do allow Android devices for VPN access, so I guess the organisations you work with are just ignorant in this matter.

 

[subjonas]

Shouldn't the app developer be able to make this choice for their apps?

Developers and people in general can do whatever they want. They can choose to develop for iOS or Android or macOS or Windows or any other platform. Each platform has their rules. If they don’t want to follow those rules then they have to make their own platform so that they can make their own rules (and then hope that no other developers come along and try to force them to change the rules of their platform). Everyone has choice ultimately. Too much victim mentality.

 

[gregmancuso]

One word. macOS.

OK? No one (including Apple) is saying that MacOS is as secure as iOS. Mac is generally less prone to malware due partly due to the architecture but more from the sub-10% footprint. Bad actors will put money where the numbers are, and for personal computers, that is Windows.

When it comes to mobile Apps is a much more enviable target. Resources are already expended on this platform and will increase should it be forced to open up.

Mobile devices work under a different use case than desktop / laptop. They are always on. They are always on your person. They hold much more personal information than most PCs/Macs. They are mobile commununications devices and as such are in constant contact with mobile networks, WiFi networks, and various real-time services.

These are devices that arguably should be more locked down, not less (or even as much) than PC/Mac. These are devices that can have serious implications should they become unstable due to ad/tracking/malware traffic or just plain don't work when you need to call for help (emergency services, parents, kids, whomever).

 

[dk001]

Reading all these posts in all these threads I have to ask: how does this drastically reduce security?

Android has some issues with the Play Store.
Apple has some issues with the App Store.
Phishing via text and email is prevalent no matter the OS.
Tricking someone into sideloading is a joke. More likely to get tricked by a text or email.
Yes there will likely be sketchy sites for any OS.
Sideloading is a choice and the site / store is a choice. You are more at risk from email / text / yada yada yada

So many the Sky is Falling claims. How about we see what the actual solutions are and then we can better understand instead of playing what-if and claiming the iOS world is ending. I wonder where all the common sense went sometimes.

/end rant

 

[Beautyspin]

Yep, all allegations and opinions. I simply disagree with them. Obviously every developer would like to keep a higher percentage, but they're using Apple's platform and knew that from the start. It's not like Apple is even taking half, let a lone the majority. And furthermore, even if I did agree that Apple was being unreasonable, let the market itself decide whether it's fair instead of the government sticking its nose in. If developers continue to develop for iOS, then obviously they think its worth it. If enough stop, then Apple will get the message. There's no reason to change anything if developers are willing to pay.

Not every government practices the Laises Faire policy. Some of them want to regulate because that is the only way it will make a company like Apple listen.

 

[Beautyspin]

Has anyone mentioned that Apple should pull out of the US market yet?

So think that’s Japan, China, the EU and possibly the US. Thank god Apple can still setup shop in Ghana!

They got a lot of cash, they can buy an island and set up shop there, I guess, complete with all kinds of laws that favor it. /s

 

[Sophisticatednut]

Even the best companies can have their package compromised.

If you want choice. Choose android?

But we don’t want android, we want macOS like ability to install any application outside the store.

OK? No one (including Apple) is saying that MacOS is as secure as iOS. Mac is generally less prone to malware due partly due to the architecture but more from the sub-10% footprint. Bad actors will put money where the numbers are, and for personal computers, that is Windows.

When it comes to mobile Apps is a much more enviable target. Resources are already expended on this platform and will increase should it be forced to open up.

Mobile devices work under a different use case than desktop / laptop. They are always on. They are always on your person. They hold much more personal information than most PCs/Macs. They are mobile commununications devices and as such are in constant contact with mobile networks, WiFi networks, and various real-time services.

These are devices that arguably should be more locked down, not less (or even as much) than PC/Mac. These are devices that can have serious implications should they become unstable due to ad/tracking/malware traffic or just plain don't work when you need to call for help (emergency services, parents, kids, whomever).

Why not give us the option? Why do you expect iOS to be more unstable or not work? It’s like a fantasy land you describe as a hellscape.

People don’t want to use android as we love iOS. The thing is it’s arbitrary lockdowns against an invisible threat.

We have bigger chance of getting bugs from a random text

 

[Wanted797]

But we don’t want android, we want macOS like ability to install any application outside the store.

Why not give us the option? Why do you expect iOS to be more unstable or not work? It’s like a fantasy land you describe as a hellscape.

People don’t want to use android as we love iOS. The thing is it’s arbitrary lockdowns against an invisible threat.

We have bigger chance of getting bugs from a random text

The moment they give the option many companies will drop their apps store app.

Creating a broken and disjointed experience for everyone. And effectively make iOS like android.

 

[BurgDog]

The moment they give the option many companies will drop their apps store app.

Creating a broken and disjointed experience for everyone. And effectively make iOS like android.

Nobody will drop their App Store apps. Most people will never want to download from any place other than Apple and assuming Apple makes it like MacOS it will required a security change from the default to allow non App Store apps. Companies know this and won't drop the most popular outlet.

What will happen is apps that Apple won't allow on the App Store because Apple doesn't want to carry them will be available for download maybe from some other store or the developer directly. Give more choices for people who want it without impacting those who want to stick to a purely Apple set of curated apps.

 

[I7guy]

Nobody will drop their App Store apps. Most people will never want to download from any place other than Apple and assuming Apple makes it like MacOS it will required a security change from the default to allow non App Store apps. Companies know this and won't drop the most popular outlet.

What will happen is apps that Apple won't allow on the App Store because Apple doesn't want to carry them will be available for download maybe from some other store or the developer directly. Give more choices for people who want it without impacting those who want to stick to a purely Apple set of curated apps.

That’s the issue. Apple doesn’t want its iOS ecosystem to be associated with certain types of apps.

 

[I7guy]

Not every government practices the Laises Faire policy. Some of them want to regulate because that is the only way it will make a company like Apple listen.

So let them regulate. Regulations beget regulations. US found out about how difficult it is to get manufacturing back in the country. It’s not instant and will take time but there will be negative downstream impact.

 

[dk001]

The moment they give the option many companies will drop their apps store app.

Creating a broken and disjointed experience for everyone. And effectively make iOS like android.

I am so glad that you have such insight into the minds and plans of these big corporations.
Got any stock tips?

 

[nastysailboat]

Just like how you already only download from the macOS AppStore, right? ?

I mean why not just threaten to move to Canada if politicians don’t keep things they way you like, it’s just as hollow; no need to reinvent the wheel.

The macOS AppStore is competing with side-loading alternatives just fine, and it was created after side-loading had long existed as the default, so it didn’t even have the iOS AppStore’s 14yr and ongoing head start.

The Google Play Store does just fine as well, and plenty of developers use it despite side-loading being a viable alternative.

You’ll still have the freedom to download from the App Store, and company’s that don’t want to sell on the App Store will have the freedom to sell to customers that aren’t as devoted to the App Store as you. If they’re aren’t enough customers like that, they’ll fail, if there are, they’ll do fine. If there aren’t any equivalent apps on the AppStore, that just means their aren’t enough customers like you to make selling through the AppStore worth that developers investment. If the demand is there, developers will be there, if it’s not, they’ll be where it is; that’s how markets work.

If Apple’s vision of privacy is what consumers want, the App Store will continue to be successful and the majority will continue to keep within the walled-garden; if they aren’t as concerned with privacy, or maybe just feel their is an alternative to privacy that doesn’t also conveniently also boosts Apple’s revenue, Apple will have to meet the markets needs, rather than bend the market to its benefit as Apple currently does.

Hey, side-loading could even benefit Apple in justifying AppStore fees; they’d have the benefit of comparing AppStore metrics to sideloading metrics, and if what Apple believes is true, the value of paying the fees over not should be evident.

If Apple truly cared about your privacy, they could say, “Hey EU, Hey US, we will forego any profit we make off of our privacy restrictions to ensure the appstores survival; we believe so strongly in security we do not want their to be any doubts to our motives against sideloading, to quell any fears that we may be trying to use privacy concerns in bad-faith to benefit our bottom-line.” The only reason they haven’t is because Apple is using privacy concerns in bad faith to bolster its revenue. Apple is fine with marrying privacy to profit— it’s a competitive advantage— but they’ll never put privacy over profit. At the end of the day, Apple only cares about the walled-garden as long as it brings in cash, i.e., considerably less than you do. Apple has a fiduciary responsibility to shareholders, and every Apple policy, including those around privacy, ultimately have to serve that responsibility.

I use my Mac for fcp logic and internet so yeah just like that. I didn’t even bother to read the rest of the comment to long

 

[nastysailboat]

why do you assume this is a given? Apple has a 15 year head start in folks being accustomed to using the App Store. Millions of people are not rushing out tomorrow to side load apps, as seen by the minuscule numbers who do so on Android.

Why do you not

 

[Amazing Iceman]

Yeah I was convinced this will be the answer a small anecdote that doesn't mean much.
And an organisation with 10k users isn't that large, there are much larger organisations than that, that do allow Android devices for VPN access, so I guess the organisations you work with are just ignorant in this matter.

And that's just your point of view...

 

[VulchR]

What apps that you use right now do you think would vacate the App Store? The App Store also has unfair rules that put competiting apps at a disadvantage.

Games, office software, security software, photography software,. - pretty much all of it...