Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
U.S. Patent and Trademark Office had canceled "key parts" of several of the patents involved in the case, but the courts rescinded that cancelation - Say WHAT?

That part of the OP is misleading. The patent invalidations at issue in this Supreme Court cert petition were upheld - not rescinded - by the Federal Circuit. There were invalidations from two different patents which the Federal Circuit ordered the PTAB to reconsider. But Apple didn't argue in this cert petition that the Supreme Court should give effect, in this litigation, to the previous invalidation of claims from those two patents.

Here's a reader's digest version of what happened in this case as relates to this Supreme Court cert petition which was just denied.

VirentX sued Apple alleging infringement of four patents. It eventually won a judgment of infringement of all four patents. (And, to be clear, the jury didn't find that those patents were invalid.) In the meantime, in separate proceedings, the PTAB was considering challenges to the validity of each of those patents (i.e. relevant claims from each). The PTAB eventually invalidated the asserted claims of all four patents. The Federal Circuit heard appeals from both the infringement decision against Apple and the invalidation decisions against VirnetX's patents.

The Federal Circuit upheld the infringement decision, for all four patents, against Apple. Then Apple asked the Federal Circuit to review that decision en banc. In other words, Apple asked for a larger group of judges from the Federal Circuit to hear and decide the case. Previously it was only a three-judge panel which had heard and decided the case. (Circuit court cases are typically decided by a three-judge panel. It is rare that a full circuit court agrees to reconsider a panel's decision.)

Then the Federal Circuit upheld the PTAB's invalidation of the asserted claims of two of the patents at issue. Based on those upheld invalidations, Apple again asked the Federal Circuit to reconsider the case and give effect to those invalidations. It wanted he Federal Circuit to reverse the decision against Apple on those two patents and have the case sent back to the district court to reconsider the damage award based only on infringement of the other two patents. The Federal Circuit denied Apple's request to reconsider the case.

So Apple asked the Supreme Court to hear the case and decide whether the Federal Circuit should have given effect in the infringement case to the PTAB's invalidations of two of the patents at issue. Apple also asked the Supreme Court to hear the case based on an apportionment issue, but that isn't relevant to what I'm talking about here. The Supreme Court denied Apple's petition, effectively refusing to consider either the invalidation issue or the apportionment issue.

Generally speaking, a final invalidation of a patent (i.e. relevant claims thereof) by the PTO is given effect in pending infringement litigation. The question here was whether the infringement litigation was still pending. Apple's position was that it was still pending because the Federal Circuit hadn't issued a mandate and the Supreme Court hadn't denied cert.

Had the Federal Circuit's upholding of the invalidations at issue come a few months earlier, I think (but I'm certainly not sure) they'd have been given effect in the infringement case - meaning, VirnetX wouldn't have won on those two patents and the amount of the award against Apple would likely have been reduced.

All that said, there's another infringement case based on the same four patents which is ongoing. It is based on infringement by later versions of Apple's products and iOS. The two patents which were invalidated by the PTAB, and where those invalidations were upheld by the Federal Circuit, are no longer a part of that case. The Federal Circuit reversed the finding that Apple had infringed those patents.

The PTAB is currently reconsidering whether relevant claims from the other two patents are invalid. But the timing of the separate proceedings seems likely to work against Apple again.
 
Sure perfectly legal and as I stated, the courts have no fight in the "patent troll" debate. Their job isn't to change the law so the courts did what they were supposed to. Apple infringed and now they have to rightfully pay up.

If we want the system to be changed where "patent trolls" are not a legal form of business, that has to go to Congress.

You seem content in letting the system continue as is vs reforming it when an issue that should be addressed pops up.
There are many much more serious issues requiring reform in the USA so I think the so called "patent troll" problem should be far down the list.
 
It is broke watch the movie/documentary “The Pantene Scam”. It will explain everything. Stop talking about **** you know nothing about.

Quality film about a quality shampoo company! Their Pro V formula revolutionized home hair care!

I would question the use of “Refuses” in the headline. It plays more like drama than what probably happened, which is that simply reviewed the case and found no merit. No refusal, just a polite decline.

I guess even MacRumors isn’t immune to sensationalism.
 
  • Like
Reactions: macfacts
Patents were intended to be granted to new inventions, giving the users the right to sell the invention and/or license it as an encouragement to innovation in the economy. The patents run a set number of years, after which anyone can use it in any way they want, to encourage competition. I don't see anywhere in the patent language of the constitution a mention of people buying up patents and using them to make money from companies that simply make their living on lawsuits. That's impeding competition and innovation. Also, this happened in the Eastern District of Texas, where granting patent trolls large judgments is kind of a family business. One wonders if there is kickback involved. Turns out, a well-known tech author (to older audiences) has figured out that the suits are not really being brought by the company itself.


Other companies settled. Apple decided to get serious and contest it. A court that is illiterate technically, but very watchful in favor of any free money for people with money has given more and more money, actually, to GE Capital and other silent partners.
 
There are many much more serious issues requiring reform in the USA so I think the so called "patent troll" problem should be far down the list.

At least you do believe there needs to be an eventual change.

Yes of course there are many more important things than solving patent reform, but we're being highly first world here anyways bickering on an Apple form. It doesn't get more silly than saying that.
 
VirnetX: patents something without using it ― Apple fans get in a roar about how broken the US patent system is and then says the Supreme Court is wrong

Apple: patents something without using it ― Apple fans cheer at the cool things Apple dreamed up

Totally ridiculous and dual thinking is involved which is unfair if we're being honest with ourselves, but fanboys cannot see past the thinkings that are logical

you have NO idea why people are complaining about the patent system. It has nothing to do with Apple, it's the system. IF this was filed in the Eastern District of Texas it is a SCAM, the Attorneys are the Judges sons. As I have said in the past watch the movie/documentary "The Patent Scam" it will explain everything.
 
I wonder how long it takes for  to earn $440 million. A few weeks? A month or two?
A homeless guy getting a jay-walking ticket is more devastating than this.
 
  • Like
Reactions: SoN1NjA
I don’t think Apple make modems but they have just bought all of Intel’s modem and radio IP. Does anyone think Apple wouldn’t go chasing if they discovered infringement?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Raist3001
you have NO idea why people are complaining about the patent system. It has nothing to do with Apple, it's the system. IF this was filed in the Eastern District of Texas it is a SCAM, the Attorneys are the Judges sons. As I have said in the past watch the movie/documentary "The Patent Scam" it will explain everything.

No it won't.
 
  • Like
Reactions: V_Man
A broken system is when someone's IP gets used without permission and without compensation.

Apple does this quite often, way too often for all the other parties to be labeled as patent trolls.

It didn't stop Android copying iOS. Apple invented the smart phone UI and did they get to enjoy exclusivity on it? No...

I often wonder just how much better Apple's products would be if they didn't have to worry about every parasite out there suing them because of some vague patent that lightly touches on something they want to bring to market.

The patent system is broken and it needs to be dumped altogether.
 
It didn't stop Android copying iOS. Apple invented the smart phone UI and did they get to enjoy exclusivity on it? No...

I often wonder just how much better Apple's products would be if they didn't have to worry about every parasite out there suing them because of some vague patent that lightly touches on something they want to bring to market.

The patent system is broken and it needs to be dumped altogether.

I don’t think a single thing in your post is correct. Apple didn’t invent the smart phone UI, they didn’t patent it and Android didn’t copy it
 
I don’t think a single thing in your post is correct. Apple didn’t invent the smart phone UI, they didn’t patent it and Android didn’t copy it
I included the article link for the android deniers.
I suggest you read it.
Android's engineers openly confessed that they did exactly that.
Here it is again.
https://www.theatlantic.com/technol...y-google-had-to-start-over-on-android/282479/
Quotes:
"Chris DeSalvo’s reaction to the iPhone was immediate and visceral. “As a consumer I was blown away. I wanted one immediately. But as a Google engineer, I thought ‘We’re going to have to start over.’”
“What we had suddenly looked just so . . . nineties,” DeSalvo said. “It’s just one of those things that are obvious when you see it.”

It's an article I enjoy reading again and again. Especially after I hear/read someone saying "Android didn't copy iOS" or "Apple copied Android".
 
If Apple is legitimately infringing on patents, got no issue with them being held accountable for that.

But I do have an issue with a businesses sole purpose is to acquire patents then sue on the infringers.

So can I say the courts decision here is wrong? No, if Apple infringed, they rightfully got held accountable and it isn't the courts job to fix a broken system. To be mad at the courts is wrong. Be mad at Congress and write to your reps to demand the system to be fixed.

If the patent exists legally and the current owner acquired it legally it doesn't matter. A company infringing on the patent is the issue. Seems quite simple. Infringe on a patent and face the repercussions. Makes no difference who owns the patent.
[automerge]1582562384[/automerge]

Someone had an idea and it was deemed original enough to receive a patent. Whether that idea is ever used or sees the light of day by the current owner of the patent means nothing. If a company (Apple in this case) wants to use the same idea which it did not originate, then be moral and enter discussions with the current patent owner to try and buy the idea. If Apple is rejected, so be it. Sharpen its pencils and come up with its own idea. "Fundamentally un-American" ???? You are therefore implying that stealing ideas which have a patent is Fundamentally American!! I hope you are not in the teaching profession or any position which has influence over impressionable young people.

There are many ways to put a reliable barrier to stop patent trolls. One of them is to allow only the original patent owner (or whoever in his family inherits those patents) NOT to have practical implementation and manufacturing based on his invention to be able to claim rights. Once the patent changes the owner - then the new owner MUST start manufacturing of this invention within a reasonable period of time or he will lose claim rights. This makes patent troll business of buying out patents, just sitting on them and milking hard-working companies impossible.
 
Right, but that is why some people think the patent system is broke!
They feel patent system should be to protect those develop and create things, not to be sold off or hoarded like a commodity to third parties.

Then you can't have patents that last forever.
 
440 mega bucks - crazy amount
insane how patent trials take up so much resources
keeps lawyers employed i guess
"...patent infringement cases brought by VirnetX a decade ago, reports Reuters."
 
When SCOTUS declines to hear a case (the headline stating 'refuses' is ludicrous, as that implies they were obligated to do so and were stubborn in declining it) the rationale is that the appeal does not have weight.
Or, the Supreme Court (much more likely) decided that its meager resources (9 Justices) simply didn't have the time or inclination to hear this case in light of other cases and other priorities right now. To be denied an appeal at the Supreme Court is like not winning the lottery. Almost all cases are denied appeal at the Supreme Court. By itself, it means nothing, including any decision by the Supreme Court that the lower courts made the right decision.
 
So. Supreme court not only denied to hear Apples appeal, but they jumped to $440 million, and only wanting to favor VirnetX?

Sounds one sided... And this is a "fair system"? ha.
 
So. Supreme court not only denied to hear Apples appeal, but they jumped to $440 million, and only wanting to favor VirnetX?

Sounds one sided... And this is a "fair system"? ha.
It's been going on 10 years, what are you talking about?
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.