MP 7,1 UK 2019 Mac Pro desirability?

[avro707]

I wondered where it went too and it would be nice to know, especially given a moderator participated in it from memory.

We need petitions like those to get traffic otherwise our machines will be deliberately turned to junk by restrictive Apple business practices.

 

[H2SO4]

Why do you say this❓You can easily add a myriad of M.2 SSDs with PCI Cards or 2.5" SSDs with an internal cage👍🏻

Lou

I'd agree that it's quite important as swapping it isn't as easy as it used to be and if course the machine cannot work without one.

 

[Regulus67]

I see the new iMac support a display size that Apple does not have (yet).

Simultaneously supports full native resolution on the built-in display at 1 billion colors and:

• Up to two external displays with up to 6K resolution at 60Hz or one external display with up to 8K resolution at 120Hz

Thunderbolt 4 digital video output

• Native DisplayPort output over USB‑C

This might suggest that Apple is about to present a larger display. What do you think?

If this is the case. Could we hope that Apple will also release the latest Radeon Pro W7000 series?
Or have all the pro users already moved on, and no longer waiting for a new display/graphic card solution?

 

[avro707]

If this is the case. Could we hope that Apple will also release the latest Radeon Pro W7000 series?

Could such a screen/resolution be supported by existing non-upgradable disposable Silicon powered macs?

I waiting for a 7000 series option but I doubt Apple will do one.

The new iMac is nothing special in specs. Still only 4.5K display, only 32GB maximum ram.

 

[Regulus67]

Could such a screen/resolution be supported by existing non-upgradable disposable Silicon powered macs?

I doubt Apple will offer a 7000 series cards as well. But I haven't lost all hope.

You can see Apple claims the m4 iMac supports that display type. Weird, with Thunderbolt 4 (40Gb/s) it shouldn't be capable.

iMac - iMac Technical Specifications

See all the technical specifications for iMac with the M4 chip and 24-inch display.

www.apple.com

 

[mattspace]

You can see Apple claims the m4 iMac supports that display type. Weird, with Thunderbolt 4 (40Gb/s) it shouldn't be capable.

That might be the point about "Native DisplayPort output over USB‑C" - perhaps it's not running the displayport encapsulated within the Thunderbolt protocol (which is always one version behind the cutting edge of displayport), but rather is switching the port to a USB protocol port, which encapsulates up-to-date displayport, or is even just running straight displayport, with no USB transport.

 

[Regulus67]

Apple is now offering a Thunderbolt 5 cable, with speeds that support an 8k display.

Like mattspace mentions, "Native DisplayPort output over USB‑C"

Highlights
Transfer data at up to 120Gb/s
USB 4 data transfer at up to 40Gb/s
DisplayPort 2.1 video output (HBR3)

Apple

Apple Store Search Results

www.apple.com

 

[avro707]

Curious to see that.

After all there was a big campaign by all the commenters that people using dedicated GPUs in workstations were just cashed up hobbyists rather proper pro users. We even see arguments that users don’t even need 5K or 6K screens, they should learn to need only 24” 4.5K.

I’ll be totally shocked if Apple releases a new GPU, but totally not shocked if they tie it to work only with a certain kind of Mac and deliberately not work with older models.

 

[Regulus67]

I’ll be totally shocked if Apple releases a new GPU, but totally not shocked if they tie it to work only with a certain kind of Mac and deliberately not work with older models.

Admittedly, you are probably absolutely right. And those of us with Intel machines will be told how far behind we are lagging by each new Apple product. Even if it is a choice made by Apple, to drop their last top GPU capable machine. And not caused by hardware limitation. Like the Mac Pro 6.1 was

 

[tsialex]

And not caused by hardware limitation.

Apple Silicon (M1/M2/M3) iommu does not support memory mapped access, so no GPUs. Not a clue if Apple solved this with M4.

 

[Regulus67]

Apple Silicon (M1/M2/M3) iommu does not support memory mapped access, so no GPUs. Not a clue if Apple solved this with M4.

I was referring to the Mac Pro 2019 😉 I have no idea what Apple will do with the Apple Silicon machines

 

[pullman]

I've been looking to get a 2019 Mac Pro as replacement for my cMP 3,1. That lovely computer is still going strong thanks to OCLP and various upgrades over the years, but it is getting a little bit long in the tooth performance-wise. So I'm considering a 2019 model as I like the expandability of the Mac Pro design. Compared to 2019 Mac Pros sold in the EU the US prices are quite enticing.

Anyway, I wanted to mention that I recently bought a CalDigit card from the US via eBay and chose the option of "eBay International Shipping". As a result didn't have to pay any VAT or import duties to the Netherlands.

Several sellers offered the same card and the same International Shipping option. For some sellers, VAT and duties were added in the shopping cart, but for some nothing at all was added. On eBay's buyers page on International Shipping it says that one should be presented with two options: "Pay import charges now" and "Defer import charges until delivery". The sellers I found offered the former option but some had 0,00 USD as charges to pay at the time of purchase whereas others had a stated fee there. I picked one with 0,00 USD and received the card without having to pay anything extra when it arrived in the Netherlands.

iPowerresale doesn't seem to offer the International Shipping option, but instead offers UPS Worldwide Expedited which I take to mean that the parcel would be intercepted by customs (and that shipping option is also a lot higher than some other options). eBay says the option is not available to all US sellers but is being rolled out. There are also size, weight and value limits which a Mac Pro may hit.

But I've seen some US sellers do offer eBay International Shipping for these machines. For instance here's a cart from a seller that does who seems to add no additional charges. Now I don't know how different countries manage this system and if there are value limits which result in cheaper items, like a PCI card, being ignored.

Check for yourself to be certain what will happen when the item crosses a border, but it may be worth it to look around and read the fine print. I thought it was interesting to see that the same option was treated differently by different sellers.

 

[avro707]

iPowerresale doesn't seem to offer the International Shipping option, but instead offers UPS Worldwide Expedited which I take to mean that the parcel would be intercepted by customs (and that shipping option is also a lot higher than some other options). eBay says the option is not available to all US sellers but is being rolled out. There are also size, weight and value limits which a Mac Pro may hit.

Just contact them, even call them - they were pretty good to deal with and will be able to work something out for you. Granted the one I got from them was a very expensive high spec machine.

 

[Regulus67]

I have had varying experiences with shipping from different parts of the world. Sometimes very good, and others have been troublesome. Like long delay in customs, or tracking stop updating.
The custom taxes in Europe, and Scandinavia in particular, are way higher than other parts of the world.

Purchasing a Mac Pro 2019 from Germany on eBay seem to almost always ship only the machine itself and a power cord (not the original).
The original packaging, and accessories are missing. Perhaps because of the strong EU sentiment on environmental packaging? I would assume the original packaging would be the better choice, but that is larger and heavier.

 

[weckart]

Could you give me a ballpark figure…..
Is it based on local VAT/Tax rates..?

Don’t want to get a bill for an additional £500 if the import duty is based on original price.

A bit late to this but to confirm a couple of things. For computers and software there is no additional import duty but you will have to pay 20% import VAT on the declared value of the computer imported plus the cost of shipping it to the UK. Normally, for large items, customs will want to see a copy of the sales invoice, which is usually included in the export declaration. If the overseas seller is not registered for VAT with HMRC (unlikely if not a big international seller like Amazon, AliExpress or Apple), you can expect only the customs export declaration to be filled in. You will know this if the VAT is not added at the point of sale. HMRC will ask for the item to be held by the importer (Parcelforce, UPS, or whoever) until the import VAT is paid so you can expect to pay those charges plus a handling charge by the importer. And VAT on the handling charge to boot. You will be notified of the charges by letter, so that will delay proceedings by at least a week and if you don't respond in time, your stuff will be shipped back to the seller.

 

[MarkC426]

A bit late to this but to confirm a couple of things. For computers and software there is no additional import duty but you will have to pay 20% import VAT on the declared value of the computer imported plus the cost of shipping it to the UK. Normally, for large items, customs will want to see a copy of the sales invoice, which is usually included in the export declaration. If the overseas seller is not registered for VAT with HMRC (unlikely if not a big international seller like Amazon, AliExpress or Apple), you can expect only the customs export declaration to be filled in. You will know this if the VAT is not added at the point of sale. HMRC will ask for the item to be held by the importer (Parcelforce, UPS, or whoever) until the import VAT is paid so you can expect to pay those charges plus a handling charge by the importer. And VAT on the handling charge to boot. You will be notified of the charges by letter, so that will delay proceedings by at least a week and if you don't respond in time, your stuff will be shipped back to the seller.

Based on those estimates, you can NOW get similar spec machines from EBay UK for a similar price (no VAT or import).
There a quite a few listings for 12-16 core 7.1’s for 2000-2500k.

I REALLY need to unwatch this thread…..😂
As much as I am tempted (because they are so sexy looking), when I take a step back, I actually don’t really need one for my current usage, which drives me crazy. If I had waited six months and not bought a Studio I would have definitely got one (who would have guessed how massive the price would drop). But at the time I wasn’t splashing out 6k+.

 

[weckart]

Based on those estimates, you can NOW get similar spec machines from EBay UK for a similar price (no VAT or import).
There a quite a few listings for 12-16 core 7.1’s for 2000-2500k.

I REALLY need to unwatch this thread…..😂
As much as I am tempted (because they are so sexy looking), when I take a step back, I actually don’t really need one for my current usage, which drives me crazy. If I had waited six months and not bought a Studio I would have definitely got one (who would have guessed how massive the price would drop). But at the time I wasn’t splashing out 6k+.

Not that I'm an enabler or anything but I just wonder how much they will drop in a year's time if the M4 range is as good as the reviews would have it and more Intel holdouts take the plunge? Who knows - if you hold your nerve and wait a bit, you might even be able to stretch for a set of wheels to go with it for that elite look.

 

[avro707]

What might change values of the 7,1 is if we could use GPUs like the W7900 Radeon Pro in MacOS.

If we weren't stuck with outdated GPUs it would have a longer life. It's probably deliberate from Apple to make sure it doesn't have a long life-span otherwise people won't buy expensive new Mac Pros.

 

[profdraper]

First off. If you do decide to get this, the 8TB SSD is perhaps the most important part. All other parts are easily upgradable to some extent. The SSD is not so easy. Because of extremely limited supply, (and price?).
Apple sells a different version for the AS SSD, which is more square, and does not fit in the Intel machine.

I see Amazon.se selling the 8TB SSD kit, with no discount.
I did pick up a brand new kit on ebay for about half the price, compared to the price Apple had when it still sold the kits in Sweden. Actually for less than I paid Apple for the 4TB upgrade kit.

The Vega II card has thunderbolt/usb-c, which can drive your DIY 5k Display 👍. The 580X can not with the two hdmi ports.

Disagree, mine has had 1TB for the last 5 years; this is alongside a TB chassis with RAID, spare bootable disks etc. In all also a much fairer, expandable & flexible option than any internal Apple disk sold at exhorbitant prices.

 

[profdraper]

Still a little dubious given the now dated Intel processor, possible price, power consumption and ongoing OS support. If it were an absolute bargain price, maybe …. upside is it better supports 3rd party hardware for pro use far better than the current models (eg multiple beefy GPUs for DaVinci Resolve Studio).

Flip-side, I’be be comparing cost with a suitably spec’d Studio (or even wait for the next M4), or even a beefed up mac mini. If you really need PCIe slots, add in the price of a thunderbolt chassis.

 

[Regulus67]

..(or even wait for the next M4), ...

Some things never change, do they?

 

[pullman]

I've been wondering about power consumption and found this page over at Apple. I've always felt rather bad about my cMP 3,1, which has been my main machine since I bought it new in July 2008, and the cMP 2,1 I use as a media server. They're listed as 155W idle/ 318W max and 171W idle and 250W max, respectively. Based on the Tapo plugs I use those numbers are correct except that I will rarely be even close to the max when the machines are in use.

The lowest-spec 2019 model is not that much better, idling at 101W with max at 430W. The fuller-spec 2019 model is very power-hungry at 302/902.

The M2 models are impressively frugal at idle (47 and 49), but at max load they're pretty much the same as my 2008.

Of course, those more modern machines are much more powerful. But when considered against one's own use case and absolute necessities those numbers are interesting.

Still a little dubious given the now dated Intel processor, possible price, power consumption and ongoing OS support. If it were an absolute bargain price, maybe …. upside is it better supports 3rd party hardware for pro use far better than the current models (eg multiple beefy GPUs for DaVinci Resolve Studio).

Flip-side, I’be be comparing cost with a suitably spec’d Studio (or even wait for the next M4), or even a beefed up mac mini. If you really need PCIe slots, add in the price of a thunderbolt chassis.

 

[flowrider]

^^^^^WOW - You have been using the same Mac for SIXTEEN Years😱 That's gotta be a record🫡

Lou

 

[pullman]

Haha thank you Lou. What can I say, it works and does what I need it to do. I use some old programs too which won't run under 64-bit macOS (like Hasselblad's Flexcolor) so I need to be able to boot into OS X. I had it at El Cap for the longest time, then DosDude patched High Sierra and since a while OCLP Monterey. Honestly it's never run better than under Monterey. Feels rock solid.

But I must admit that I am curious about the 2019 model to last me another 16+ years 🙂

Cheers
philip

^^^^^WOW - You have been using the same Mac for SIXTEEN Years😱 That's gotta be a record🫡

Lou

 

[avro707]

You have been using the same Mac for SIXTEEN Years😱 That's gotta be a record🫡

I had my 2010 Mac Pro in 2010 new, it still runs, so that's not too unusual. I replaced GPUs, upgraded the CPUs and also changed it to dual CPU instead of original quad-core 3.2ghz single Xeon. It was a good machine.

I'm under no illusions that my 2019 Mac Pro with the dual W6800X Duos is a monster and will surely use a lot of power under heavy load, but that's a crazy spec as well. Everything I use it for, the thing is amazing.