UK Buy now Get in 3 months time - er?

englishman

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Nov 6, 2006
723
8
Dispatch dates now showing February for UK orders - I am not ordering a battleship - just a little PC - madness.
 

maflynn

Moderator
Staff member
May 3, 2009
67,069
34,162
Boston
Dispatch dates now showing February for UK orders - I am not ordering a battleship - just a little PC - madness.
I had to wait an excessive amount of time for my MBP, though I think 2 months is a little long and I think that's the current shipping estimates unless they've since slipped to the end of february (then its 3 months ;) )
 

theSeb

macrumors 604
Aug 10, 2010
7,067
131
Poole, England
3 months from today would be the middle of March, so I think your maths is a little bit off.

So we went from "Apple hates pros and will kill the Mac Pro", to "This isn't suitable to my needs", to "Only in the fall? When in the fall?", to "When in December?", to "OMG! I have to wait for my BTO machine?".

Seriously, when will the incessant whining stop? I am not sure what it is that causes people to behave as if they are children impatiently waiting for their xmas gifts. It would seem that many of you have a lot of experience in manufacturing and logistics, so I would love to hear thoughts on how they would have handled this, considering all of the factors involved, like third-party supplier constraints.
 

Loa

macrumors 68000
May 5, 2003
1,616
49
Québec
OP, your message is exactly why Apple doesn't usually announce their products in advance...
 

Loa

macrumors 68000
May 5, 2003
1,616
49
Québec
they have no right to ask for them to be manufactured quickly
That's not the point. Usually Apple waits until they have sufficient (sometimes barely) stock before making new devices available. But with the Mac Pro they cracked under the pressure and decided to say: "fall 2013". Had they not, they would probably have waited for february 2014 and there would be no such delays.

Loa
 

Freida

macrumors 68030
Oct 22, 2010
2,779
3,766
i know right

its not like the customers are paying up to $15k for their machines

they have no right to ask for them to be manufactured quickly
you think that just because you pay $15k it means that you will get it faster? What world do you live in? If intel has limited stock or if the demand is high then of course there will be backlog regardless of the price. Jesus some people think that the world is spinning around them!
 

Spinland

macrumors 6502
Jul 16, 2011
320
1
Utica, NY, USA
Had they not, they would probably have waited for february 2014 and there would be no such delays.
And you'd still be getting your computer in the Feb/Mar time frame, no? What's the difference? You want to be protected from ordering it early and being impatient?
 

englishman

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Nov 6, 2006
723
8
And you'd still be getting your computer in the Feb/Mar time frame, no? What's the difference? You want to be protected from ordering it early and being impatient?
The point is not about impatience - if someone was waiting to upgrade and planning for Dec this destroys their plans. They could have made alternative arrangements if they knew a new PC wasn't coming until March - or maybe it will get to April or even further.
 

Quu

macrumors 68030
Apr 2, 2007
2,988
4,858
Few years ago when the 2009 17" MBP came out I had to wait about 42 days from point of order to arrival. Not quite as bad as some Mac Pro purchasers but hey you're getting a really nice system at the end of it ;)
 

scottsjack

macrumors 68000
Aug 25, 2010
1,900
303
Arizona
All of this could have been avoided if Apple had issued a new Mac Pro earlier this year. The new model would have been a continuation of the same aluminum case but with modern equipment (E5, SATA3, USB3, faster RAM).

The trashcan version could have been developed in its own sweet time as a high-powered, compact alternative. God forbid Apple actually offers a wide range of products!
 

Spinland

macrumors 6502
Jul 16, 2011
320
1
Utica, NY, USA
The point is not about impatience - if someone was waiting to upgrade and planning for Dec this destroys their plans. They could have made alternative arrangements if they knew a new PC wasn't coming until March - or maybe it will get to April or even further.
Fair point. I was responding to the tone of the quoted post, in the context of so many more like it I've already seen on these boards. I agree Apple could have been more vocal about the anticipated actual ship/delivery dates up front, but I also don't believe they should have delayed the order date.
 

TallManNY

macrumors 601
Nov 5, 2007
4,362
1,219
This is why we don't manufacturer computers in the US anymore. Hopefully Apple can shake this out and catch up. I'm sure they can eventually. But missing the Holiday season and almost missing the end of the year is a failure. Challenges must have come up that they could only barely meet. I'm sure if they had done the manufacturing overseas in an already existing manufacturing facility the device would have been ready in quantities by November. Can you imagine the millions of folks who coming through the Apple store during holiday shopping season would have looked at those gleaming black monoliths connected to a 4K screen the likes of which they've never seen before? Thousands of these would have been bought on a whim. Now we've got another shortage.

Well Apple does try to do ambitious stuff. And making a cutting-edge computer in the US is pretty ambitious.

----------

The point is not about impatience - if someone was waiting to upgrade and planning for Dec this destroys their plans. They could have made alternative arrangements if they knew a new PC wasn't coming until March - or maybe it will get to April or even further.
It is really much worse than that. These are largely slated for business. They've been waiting and budgeting for this device since it was announced. It was announced to launch in 2013, so you probably stuck it in your budget for around October. If one of your work computers has failed recently, you've probably elected to limp along knowing that the big daddy replacement is coming this year. Now it turns out this is pushed back another two months, at least. And those ship dates can move around, though typically when you get a ship date Apple beats the date and it never slips backwards to any significant degree. But who knows if Apple isn't having some serious manufacturing issues with this new design.
 

Freida

macrumors 68030
Oct 22, 2010
2,779
3,766
This is why we don't manufacturer computers in the US anymore. Hopefully Apple can shake this out and catch up. I'm sure they can eventually. But missing the Holiday season and almost missing the end of the year is a failure. Challenges must have come up that they could only barely meet. I'm sure if they had done the manufacturing overseas in an already existing manufacturing facility the device would have been ready in quantities by November. Can you imagine the millions of folks who coming through the Apple store during holiday shopping season would have looked at those gleaming black monoliths connected to a 4K screen the likes of which they've never seen before? Thousands of these would have been bought on a whim. Now we've got another shortage.
I don't think we will see these connected to the 4K screens at the Apple stores. I think they will be connected to Apple screens until Apple releases its own 4K screen. The only product that is connected to something different is AppleTV and that is only because Apple is not in TV market yet and it has to be demonstrated.

I could be wrong but I just don't see them having the nMP contacted to sharp screen.
 

Rich.Cohen

macrumors regular
Oct 28, 2013
193
3
Washington DC
This is why we don't manufacturer computers in the US anymore. … I'm sure if they had done the manufacturing overseas in an already existing manufacturing facility the device would have been ready in quantities by November.
That's unsupported speculation stated as fact. It sounds like nonsense to me. The main reason production has moved overseas is unit cost. Part of that is labor cost and part is national subsidies. Those subsidies are a good idea for those nations, it builds up their infrastructure, educates their work forces and improves their trade balance. In a few cases quality was a motivator, but in many more it was of little concern to the US managers who moved their production overseas.

From the speculations I've read about the nMP, it seems like chip delays (or low-rate production) from supplies was and continues to be the main problem. I wonder where those chips are made?

But who knows if Apple isn't having some serious manufacturing issues with this new design.
There may well have been (or could still be) manufacturing problems. There may also have been design defects that required correction which in turn required changes to the production line. These are both common to new and unusual designs which the nMP certainly is. However, these kinds of problem have nothing to do with manufacturing location. I suspect that most of the manufacturing design for Apple products is performed by Apple itself regardless of location.


I suspect that overly optimistic estimates of the time to reach full scale production of the nMP itself and or of the time key suppliers could reach full scale production of components are the root cause of the delays we are seeing. If nMP production was part of the problem, the US facility could be a contributor, but we have no evidence to support that notion. Was there a problem? How long did it take to correct it? Was the cause unique to the US? Would another plant somewhere else really have corrected it sooner?

If all the delays were due to component shortages, then the location of the final assembly is irrelevant.
 

TallManNY

macrumors 601
Nov 5, 2007
4,362
1,219
That's unsupported speculation stated as fact. It sounds like nonsense to me. The main reason production has moved overseas is unit cost. Part of that is labor cost and part is national subsidies. Those subsidies are a good idea for those nations, it builds up their infrastructure, educates their work forces and improves their trade balance. In a few cases quality was a motivator, but in many more it was of little concern to the US managers who moved their production overseas.

From the speculations I've read about the nMP, it seems like chip delays (or low-rate production) from supplies was and continues to be the main problem. I wonder where those chips are made?



There may well have been (or could still be) manufacturing problems. There may also have been design defects that required correction which in turn required changes to the production line. These are both common to new and unusual designs which the nMP certainly is. However, these kinds of problem have nothing to do with manufacturing location. I suspect that most of the manufacturing design for Apple products is performed by Apple itself regardless of location.


I suspect that overly optimistic estimates of the time to reach full scale production of the nMP itself and or of the time key suppliers could reach full scale production of components are the root cause of the delays we are seeing. If nMP production was part of the problem, the US facility could be a contributor, but we have no evidence to support that notion. Was there a problem? How long did it take to correct it? Was the cause unique to the US? Would another plant somewhere else really have corrected it sooner?

If all the delays were due to component shortages, then the location of the final assembly is irrelevant.
Yeah, you are right, I'm just speculating. But we can all agree that this is not the plan that Apple had nine months ago for this computer. They must be majorly upset to be launching this late and with such a constrained supply.

----------

I don't think we will see these connected to the 4K screens at the Apple stores. I think they will be connected to Apple screens until Apple releases its own 4K screen. The only product that is connected to something different is AppleTV and that is only because Apple is not in TV market yet and it has to be demonstrated.

I could be wrong but I just don't see them having the nMP contacted to sharp screen.
Hmmm, good point. They might not like the fact that the sharp 4K screen will make the iMac screens look bad by comparison. But it would be shame to not show off the nMP at its best.
 

Rich.Cohen

macrumors regular
Oct 28, 2013
193
3
Washington DC
Yeah, you are right, I'm just speculating. But we can all agree that this is not the plan that Apple had nine months ago for this computer. They must be majorly upset to be launching this late and with such a constrained supply.
I agree, someone a Apple made a mistake. Perhaps it was overoptimism. Perhaps it was caving to marketing demands. Perhaps it was based on a supplier's estimate that turned out to be wrong. Perhaps it was based on the US plant production manager's estimate that turned out to be wrong. Some of these are honest mistakes and some should be penalized within Apple.

I also agree that a lot of people at Apple are much more upset by this situation than we are.
 

Kissaragi

macrumors 68020
Nov 16, 2006
2,340
369
A brand new apple product with limited stock at launch!? Who would have thought such a thing could ever happen!
 

TallManNY

macrumors 601
Nov 5, 2007
4,362
1,219
A brand new apple product with limited stock at launch!? Who would have thought such a thing could ever happen!
This is beyond limited. This is unavailable. The flagship stores in NYC don't even have demo units, much less any in store to sell. This isn't as big a deal as the iMac product launch problems, but it is a screw up.
 

Gonk42

macrumors 6502
Jan 16, 2008
288
0
near Cambridge
Apple seems to be becoming more like other companies - the Mac Pro is being launched before there is sufficient stock to meet the premature announcement that it would be ready in the Fall.

The announcement of it being ready in the Fall was because, I surmise, there had been a very long gap since the last Mac Pro update. This may well have been because Apple was dithering between dropping the Mac Pro altogether or producing something new to replace it - again pure supposition - so they didn't put a lot of resources towards the new design until comparatively recently. They also made the move to production in the US to get Congress off their backs regarding all the off-shore income they've kept off-shore and not paid US tax on.

I think Steve Jobs would have not shown the new Mac Pro at all until it was fully ready to go. There wouldn't have been any advance previews or promises, just the normal fevered speculation on Mac Rumors!
 
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