bojanglessw16

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 4, 2017
5
0
London
I bought a macbook pro 15" in January 2012 direct from Apple Europe sales. Under our law, this should protect me up until January 2018.

8 weeks ago when I booted it up I got a folder with a question mark on it. After investigation, the hard drive has malfunctioned. An Apple Authorised Service Provider siad: 'we have found that the hard drive has suffered a mechanical failure and is no longer operative. Apple no longer supply the parts for these machines but we can replace it with a thrid-party non-Apple drive of varying size and speed with a one year warranty upheld..'

I cannot get my data off of it. Apple tried all they could to get me back up and running. I was given assurances that all would be taken care of - either I would get a reduced upgrade on a new machine or they'd pay for the repair.

It has taken 8 weeks. 8! to tell me that they only honor manufacturing faults up to 5 years. I have asked their legal team to write to me and explain why they will not honor the 6 year agreement under our law.

Over a year ago, my macbook had to be recalled to fit a new keyboard and have the graphics card (?) checked. This was within the 5 years and they did this free of charge. I do not understand why they are not honoring my rights now.

I was given every assurance by Apple that all would be taken care of. Now, they are wriggling out of it.
Should I make a small claim against them or what do people recommend?

I've lost work in past 8 weeks. Lost my data. I am very unhappy with Apple and feel like any faith I had in this brand is gone.
 

shaunp

Cancelled
Nov 5, 2010
1,811
1,395
You have to accept some responsibility here. Yes you may have a case for them replacing the hard drive, but YOU have a responsibility to backup your data and to be able to get it back, not Apple. Also given how long it's taken them to deal with this you'd have been better off just buying another hard drive - they cost £40!

So if you do go to the small claims court you may get them to pay for the price of a replacement drive, but that's a lot of effort for such a low price item. The court will not give you anything for loss of data as this is not Apple's fault, it is yours for not having a backup.
 
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leman

macrumors G5
Oct 14, 2008
13,819
9,589
Data safety is your responsibility. As to why they won't replace the HDD, you should probably talk to your lawyer. I am a it puzzled that one would give 6 years warranty on a HDD given the fact that an average life expectation of a HDD is well below that (its of course different for enterprise drives, but they are a special case).
 

bojanglessw16

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 4, 2017
5
0
London
You have to accept some responsibility here. Yes you may have a case for them replacing the hard drive, but YOU have a responsibility to backup your data and to be able to get it back, not Apple. Also given how long it's taken them to deal with this you'd have been better off just buying another hard drive - they cost £40!

So if you do go to the small claims court you may get them to pay for the price of a replacement drive, but that's a lot of effort for such a low price item. The court will not give you anything for loss of data as this is not Apple's fault, it is yours for not having a backup.

I had a time machine backup, but the macbook was slowing down and support urged me not to restore from back up as that may bring the fault over again. I was advised to download new OS X and drag across only files I knew were safe. It was from here I lost about 8 months of work
[doublepost=1512398960][/doublepost]
Data safety is your responsibility. As to why they won't replace the HDD, you should probably talk to your lawyer. I am a it puzzled that one would give 6 years warranty on a HDD given the fact that an average life expectation of a HDD is well below that (its of course different for enterprise drives, but they are a special case).

It's not 6 years on the HDD directly, it's the whole device - see UK law: https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-ri...filiates&utm_content=22278&source_code=314AGJ
 

keysofanxiety

macrumors G3
Nov 23, 2011
9,534
25,287
UK consumer law is not an extended warranty. It covers things like widespread manufacturing defects that were caused by inherent failures, not preventable by the user: (e.g., iPhone 5 battery, 2011 Radeongate). However this does not translate to "if anything goes wrong, they need to fix it."

Hard-drives fail. Simple as that.
 

Weaselboy

Moderator
Staff member
Jan 23, 2005
31,808
11,514
California
I had a time machine backup, but the macbook was slowing down and support urged me not to restore from back up as that may bring the fault over again. I was advised to download new OS X and drag across only files I knew were safe. It was from here I lost about 8 months of work
Why would you lose your work if it is on the TM backup? Can't you just restore only the files you need from the backup?
 

bojanglessw16

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 4, 2017
5
0
London
Data safety is your responsibility. As to why they won't replace the HDD, you should probably talk to your lawyer. I am a it puzzled that one would give 6 years warranty on a HDD given the fact that an average life expectation of a HDD is well below that (its of course different for enterprise drives, but they are a special case).[/QUOTE
UK consumer law is not an extended warranty. It covers things like widespread manufacturing defects that were caused by inherent failures, not preventable by the user: (e.g., iPhone 5 battery, 2011 Radeongate). However this does not translate to "if anything goes wrong, they need to fix it."

Hard-drives fail. Simple as that.

I think I have to disagree with you. It was very expensive to buy this in the UK. Manufacturers probably front load the cost of the extra time period. It's up to Apple to prove to me it is NOT a manufacturing defect within 6 years. I say that it is and that this covers the whole expensive piece of technological equipment
[doublepost=1512399534][/doublepost]
Why would you lose your work if it is on the TM backup? Can't you just restore only the files you need from the backup?
Hi, sorry, I meant I have not backed up my data for about 8 months since doing a system restore - that's what I meant. I realise this is my bad.
 

keysofanxiety

macrumors G3
Nov 23, 2011
9,534
25,287
I think I have to disagree with you. It was very expensive to buy this in the UK. Manufacturers probably front load the cost of the extra time period. It's up to Apple to prove to me it is NOT a manufacturing defect within 6 years. I say that it is and that this covers the whole expensive piece of technological equipment

It's a mechanical hard-drive. They're slow and fail over time from wear-and-tear alone. They are also hugely susceptible to drops and knocks.

A 6 year old HDD can't reasonably be covered under consumer law.
 
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leman

macrumors G5
Oct 14, 2008
13,819
9,589
I think I have to disagree with you. It was very expensive to buy this in the UK. Manufacturers probably front load the cost of the extra time period.

Of course they do, otherwise they'd be probably making a loss :) Around 30-40% of laptops will fail within 6 years, maybe even more. As to the other parts, you should really consult a lawyer. As already mentioned, its rather "normal" for a HDD to fail within 6 years of operation. I am sure that an UK law professional would know whether the UK law covers you here or not. But I do not believe that you will get competent law advice on these forums. Most likely the majority of posts will be "opinions" (tm).
 
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mw360

macrumors 68000
Aug 15, 2010
1,803
1,965
Who's refusing to fix it, Apple, or the Authorised Service Provider?

Also how have you established its a manufacturing defect? That's the only way the 6yr rule applies - if the item was faulty at the time of purchase. Unless there was a recall on that HDD or a repair programme, you'll have a hard time proving the HHD was faulty all the way back then.
[doublepost=1512399808][/doublepost]
It's up to Apple to prove to me it is NOT a manufacturing defect within 6 years.

You are wrong about this. You get 6 MONTHS. After that, failures are assumed to be wear and tear unless YOU can demonstrate otherwise.
 

jerryk

Contributor
Nov 3, 2011
6,868
3,788
SF Bay Area
No backup of your data? Sorry, but that is on you.

Anything on a computer is one spilled drink, drop, or power surge away from disappearing forever. Plan accordingly and backup up often to a local drive, and the cloud.
 

shaunp

Cancelled
Nov 5, 2010
1,811
1,395
I had a time machine backup, but the macbook was slowing down and support urged me not to restore from back up as that may bring the fault over again. I was advised to download new OS X and drag across only files I knew were safe. It was from here I lost about 8 months of work
[doublepost=1512398960][/doublepost]

It's not 6 years on the HDD directly, it's the whole device - see UK law: https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-ri...filiates&utm_content=22278&source_code=314AGJ

You could have used any other means to take a backup. TimeMachine is not the only option. Just plug in an external drive and copying the files would have prevented you from losing data.
 

bojanglessw16

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 4, 2017
5
0
London
I know about the data. I'm a total moron for not doing it - especially when I had to do a system restore when machine was slowing down back in February. Don't rub it in any more about the data loss!

It's Apple who are saying they will not pay for it to be fixed - it's only going to cost 135 UKP plus VAT. Approved provider will fix, but I'd like Apple to pay - they led me to believe they would when I first called support.

If I can get Apple to pay this, shall I just let the legal case go? You're right - bit of a nightmare to make a money claim online - how long is that going to take?!
 

keysofanxiety

macrumors G3
Nov 23, 2011
9,534
25,287
Just buy an SSD and replace it with that; it'll cost around the same as Apple are charging. Drive has failed, might as well take the opportunity to dramatically improve your system's performance.
 

mw360

macrumors 68000
Aug 15, 2010
1,803
1,965
I know about the data. I'm a total moron for not doing it - especially when I had to do a system restore when machine was slowing down back in February. Don't rub it in any more about the data loss!

It's Apple who are saying they will not pay for it to be fixed - it's only going to cost 135 UKP plus VAT. Approved provider will fix, but I'd like Apple to pay - they led me to believe they would when I first called support.

If I can get Apple to pay this, shall I just let the legal case go? You're right - bit of a nightmare to make a money claim online - how long is that going to take?!

Wait up, you called Apple, told them you had a faulty Mac 5+ yrs old, and they offered a free repair without even inspecting it? I'm sorry I think you've got yourself very confused.
 

bojanglessw16

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Dec 4, 2017
5
0
London
Wait up, you called Apple, told them you had a faulty Mac 5+ yrs old, and they offered a free repair without even inspecting it? I'm sorry I think you've got yourself very confused.
I took it into an approved service provider! I think you are confused or haven't read the whole thread
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Core
Feb 20, 2009
22,205
8,252
OP wrote:
"I've lost work in past 8 weeks. Lost my data. I am very unhappy with Apple and feel like any faith I had in this brand is gone."

Then... I suggest you buy something else. See how much better you do with that.

Consumer protection or no consumer protection, there's only so much that can be done for a MacBook that's 6 years old, considering that they may not even stock parts for it any longer.

The data loss IS YOUR FAULT (and yes, I'm going to say it again in this thread).
If you want to prevent that in the future, use CarbonCopyCloner or SuperDuper instead of Time Machine. I predict things will go much better.

Fishrrman's credo:
Reality is what it is. It is not what we believe it to be.

Learn to back up, and also learn to be a bit more realistic about the realities of "consumer law".
 
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mw360

macrumors 68000
Aug 15, 2010
1,803
1,965
I took it into an approved service provider! I think you are confused or haven't read the whole thread

I'm completely confused but I'm not going to get into arguing the semantics of your posts. I think you took it to the ASP who wanted to charge money and insert non-Apple parts. You took it away, and called Apple, who tried to help you over the phone, and finally said okay, we'll pay for the ASP to fix it. Then you heard nothing. Then you called again and they said no way. Is that it?

Did the first Apple support technician have the diagnosis by the ASP? Because that technician was very generous to offer to fix it for free unless there's something you aren't telling us, like an HDD recall programme, or that the first phone conversation was a hypothetical without a proper diagnosis.
 

ab298

macrumors member
Jun 18, 2017
62
12
If Apple themselves were fixing it, then I'm fairly sure (almost certain based on past experience) that some huffing & puffing about sale of goods etc etc would get you a new drive without charge. I think you'd win in court anyway, even supposing it got that far.

They might initially be a little stickier if someone else, even an AASP is doing it, but I'd expect the same result; nothing for your trouble or data though.
 

Nigel Goodman

macrumors regular
Jun 29, 2017
162
73
UK
I bought a macbook pro 15" in January 2012 direct from Apple Europe sales. Under our law, this should protect me up until January 2018.

I am afraid that is is a common misconception about the 6 year period in the UK.

Here is a quote from the UK consumer group Which? Please read the first and the last two paragraphs carefully.

"
If a fault develops after the first six months, the burden is on you to prove that the product was faulty at the time of delivery.

In practice, this may require some form of expert report, opinion or evidence of similar problems across the product range.

...

You have six years to take a claim to the small claims court for faulty goods in England, Wales and Northern Ireland, and five years in Scotland.

This doesn't mean that a product has to last six years - just that you have this length of time in which to make a claim if a retailer refuses to repair or replace a faulty product.

"
 

William Payne

macrumors 6502a
Jan 10, 2017
931
359
Wanganui, New Zealand.
The problem here is hard drives will fail, it's just a matter of when. Depending on how the drive has failed can impact data recovery.

If you have important work files you need a regular back up plan. Multiple multiple copies of your data. Even 2 copies is probably too few. Also back up regularly, daily even if you are saving new data every day.

I've met people who backup there data every hour.
 

SteveJUAE

macrumors 68040
Aug 14, 2015
3,656
3,735
Land of Smiles
If I can get Apple to pay this, shall I just let the legal case go? You're right - bit of a nightmare to make a money claim online - how long is that going to take?!

Even if you can prove the fault was there from the first instance, which is highly unlikely it will cost you a lot more in time and effort etc than it's probably worth

However

One of the cheapest ways to prove failure is a common event under 6 years is to show by searching the internet. If you can find 100's identical problems to you then I would fire this at Apple before even thinking of small claims court as you would have "reasonable" documented evidence that a court would likely consider as valid.

I would also be careful about commercial use as many products warranties etc are less for commercial use and maybe even the UK law will be less favourable to your case if it's not personal use but commercial
 

ZapNZs

macrumors 68020
Jan 23, 2017
2,310
1,158
A hard drive is a wear item, much like brakepads. I am not sure how this affects consumer protection law, but I would understand if HDDs were excluded from this rule given their finite lifespan.

In the US, the hard drive of the same brand Apple uses of the same quality (ex: an HGST TravelStar [they used multiple brands including Seagate, HGST/Western Digital, and Toshiba - Apple has never made their own hard drives), is a $50-60 USD part, and the DIY install is a very simple process. Consequently, even if you do have a case under the consumer protection law, I am not sure how viable such a case is for an item that is one that wears over time (i.e., you may spend more on gas money and time off work than you would save if Apple covers this.) Functionally, with that system it makes more sense to replace it with a solid state drive instead of the same HDD it currently has, because it is faster, more durable, and are arguably less likely to fail during the period of normal ownership.

You do have options for data recovery, although this is generally expensive. There are some DIY methods as well, although IMO one should only try these if they have decided that 1) they will not seek professional services, and 2) they can live with the data loss if the DIY recovery makes things worse.
 

827538

macrumors 68000
Jul 3, 2013
1,733
1,974
UK consumer law is not an extended warranty. It covers things like widespread manufacturing defects that were caused by inherent failures, not preventable by the user: (e.g., iPhone 5 battery, 2011 Radeongate). However this does not translate to "if anything goes wrong, they need to fix it."

Hard-drives fail. Simple as that.
Exactly this, it's not a warranty.
 
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