UK Environmental Committee Says Apple Contributing to 'Throwaway Culture' of 'Short-Lived Products'

[Wiesenlooser]

This is exactly the mindset Apple wants you to have and boy it is pure and utter BS. It does not matter one bit for quality, waterproofness or whatever if a device is screwed together, glued together or soldered together. You can buy a $200 Seiko dive watch that will let take your scuba gear down to 200m and it pulls apart into their individual pieces just fine with screws. But we can't make a splash resistent phone without glueing the thing together so it can never come apart again? Quit drinking the koolaid and sucking the Apple feeder tube.

Apple is actively trying to prevent repairs by trying to make sure devices cannot be taken apart without damage, by not allowing 3rd party repair shops to be able to make repairs, by not allowing the device to work with replacement parts that would work just fine, by pricing their own repairs so it is not economically viable to do them. And that has nothing to do with quality, waterproofness or whatever reason you can think of. It is just about money. About selling new devices. Apple does not want you to do 5 years with your phone. They don't want you to fix it after a year if it accidentally breaks so you can use it for another year. They want to sell you a new $1000+ device each and every year and throw the old one in the garbage. Preferably their garbage, so they can lowball you with a trade-in 'offer' so they can make money of your old phone as well your new one.

Its ok to make a profit. Money is not a dirty word. But not at the expensive of everything else. And that's exactly what Apple is doing.

EDIT: If Apple were a car company, it would be impossible to remove the wheels to replace the tires or change the oil. It would have amazing gas mileage that would let you drive halfway across the globe, but once it was empty, you'd have to buy a new car even if it's perfectly fine and would run for ages if you could just fill it up at the local gas station. But it won't, cause you it doesn't have a gas cap and you'd have to fill it up with Apple gas as it won't start on anything else and Apple gas is so expensive that together with taking it to the Apple store to have it stripped and filled it by them, it is just more economical to just buy a new car.

Oh, and you'd be convinced that in order to get great gas mileage a car shouldn't have a gas cap.

Last time I checked, my watch does not have a speaker and also not a port. Very weird comparison.

Waterproofness is one aspect, but not the sole aspect, which you would have noticed if you had read my post more carefully. Making devices thin is another one. Especially the screen is glued to the front plate to have no gap between the display and the surface, like in older devices.

To think Apple would actively make devices harder to repair is not a logical argument, because it costs them more too when they have to repair devices within warranty.

The truth is, it is just much easier to create a device that is thin and sleek with glue. Many other manufacturers have a comparably low repairability score, or in some cases even lower. Check out the note 20 here or microsofts surface devices here .


Your car analogy also shows that you have very limited understanding. IT IS the case that car technology becomes more integrated and cars are harder to repair / maintenance, partially because there is more technology packed into parts, engine miniaturisation, etc. You cannot nearly repair cars as much yourself as you used to. And yes, more and more you need to have your cars repaired by brand-specific repair shops rather than just your car repair shop around the corner, or at least they need to have proprietary parts and tools to maintain your car.

 

[throttlemeister]

Last time I checked, my watch does not have a speaker and also not a port. Very weird comparison.

Waterproofness is one aspect, but not the sole aspect, which you would have noticed if you had read my post more carefully. Making devices thin is another one. Especially the screen is glued to the front plate to have no gap between the display and the surface, like in older devices.

To think Apple would actively make devices harder to repair is not a logical argument, because it costs them more too when they have to repair devices within warranty.

The truth is, it is just much easier to create a device that is thin and sleek with glue. Many other manufacturers have a comparably low repairability score, or in some cases even lower. Check out the note 20 here or microsofts surface devices here .


Your car analogy also shows that you have very limited understanding. IT IS the case that car technology becomes more integrated and cars are harder to repair / maintenance, partially because there is more technology packed into parts, engine miniaturisation, etc. You cannot nearly repair cars as much yourself as you used to. And yes, more and more you need to have your cars repaired by brand-specific repair shops rather than just your car repair shop around the corner, or at least they need to have proprietary parts and tools to maintain your car.

Keep at it with your whataboutisms and personal insults. Keep drinking the koolaid. Just because someone else does it, does not make it right. And you damn well know Apple started this crap; the others are just following like they do with everything else.

And, last I checked reparability does not mean you have to be able to do it yourself. And just because car mechanics have to go to school more often and other tools besides wrenches and hammers are required these days, it still has not stopped anyone to go to an independent mechanic to service their car with perfect results.

But do keep living in your Apple reality distortion field. Just try to refrain shoving it down other peoples throat that prefer a real view on the world.

 

[Glideslope]

Keep at it with your whataboutisms and personal insults. Keep drinking the koolaid. Just because someone else does it, does not make it right. And you damn well know Apple started this crap; the others are just following like they do with everything else.

And, last I checked reparability does not mean you have to be able to do it yourself. And just because car mechanics have to go to school more often and other tools besides wrenches and hammers are required these days, it still has not stopped anyone to go to an independent mechanic to service their car with perfect results.

But do keep living in your Apple reality distortion field. Just try to refrain shoving it down other peoples throat that prefer a real view on the world.

Ah, so they are shoving it down your throat, yet you're the one with the "Real View" of the world.

Plenty of Kool Aid to go around in this thread. 😉

 

[amartinez1660]

Unlike you. Most of the Apple fans will buy the latest products all the time. So what will happen to their old Mac, iPads, iPhones etc?

I hardly think those fully working product will be tossed into the ocean or on a garbage bin by their previous owners as their first and only option.
What I see happening is:
- The device gets gifted to husband/wife or a family member (i.e a brother of mine who has a laptop already but would like a desktop computer for rare use will get my 2013 iMac, a cousin got an iPhone 6 when I bought the X)
- Sold on secondary market (I have sold an iPhone 4s like this). And actually my 2014 MacBook Pro is used from a company’s hardware clearance for their refresh/upgrade cycle.
- When no one wants it and selling feels like a hassle that day, trade in with Apple who will either refurbish or recycle as much as possible (I have never done this).

 

[CthuluLemon]

Their product last for ages. My 2014 MBP still runs completely fine (besides the depleted battery) and iPhones probably have the longest OS update support in the industry.

What is true that their products are hard to repair, part of it is because of more compact design, tightening tolerances and waterproof-ness. But to my knowledge if you go to an Apple Store and they have to exchange parts / computers, the exchanged product gets recycles.

They could clearly build their products to be more repairable or modular, but then product quality would suffer. It's very clear they are prioritising product quality and do what they can do to mitigate the negative effects of bad repairability.

We must protect you! Never let Tim Cook know your secrets, lest he discover how to make even you obsolete.

 

[123]

So, what? We should stop improving and making new tech because it encourages throwing the old tech away?

Sounds like a great plan for progress.

Actually you couldn't be more wrong. People should update because the difference is big enough to warrant buying the new version. And not because something breaks and simply must be replaced.

That's how innovation is driven, because not innovating means nobody will buy anymore. If, on the other hand, people have to buy because stuff breaks too easily (e.g. phone glass back) or cannot be repaired or repairs cost too much, companies can get away with pseudo upgrades => a great plan for stagnation.

 

[dan110]

So, what? We should stop improving and making new tech because it encourages throwing the old tech away?

Sounds like a great plan for progress.

You totally missed the point. Did you actually read the article?

Soldering parts, limiting parts to 3rd party repairers, indexing parts so that they only work if approved, and charging high fees for repairs are all contributing to an overall e-waste problem.

 

[dan110]

We must protect you! Never let Tim Cook know your secrets, lest he discover how to make even you obsolete.

Product quality won't have to suffer by making devices more modular. This conflicts with your praise about the longevity of Apple's laptops which are more modular than their successors.

Plus, Apple already has shown a track record of making great modular products with pre-2010 devices.

 

[MacFever]

This is definitely where I 100% disagree with Apple's business strategy and I agree with the UK committee and i'm not a UK citizen. It's doesn't take a 'genius' to see what Apple is doing with their hardware by making capable hardware that should be able to run MacOS versions and iOS versions limited because they say the hardware is not up to their specs.. It causes alot of people to either toss out their old devices or it just sits' there collecting dust.. Apple loves to claim they are eco friendly green but are also contributing to the landfills at the same time... I agree something needs to be done about it and their practices.

This is one area that Microsoft wins and doesn't limit old devices from installing their windows OS. It's up to the user to see if they meet the requirements and whether their old machine is just fine for them. not being dictated too that it's time for you to get rid of the old device and buy a shiny new one to run the latest OS and software.

 

[bingeciren]

I think most of you are missing an important point. Let me put it this way: I still use my 2008 Unibody MacBook. It still works satisfactorily. You know why? Because it has a cover that comes of without using a screwdriver just by simply pulling a latch, that gives me an access for a user replaceable battery, memory and hard drive. Because of this user friendly upgradeable design, I replaced my ageing battery with no problem, increased the memory and swapped the 4200 HDD with an SSD. So, this old machine is still useable because of this user allowed designed-in upgradeability.

Try this with with a current crop of MacBooks with soldered in memory, SSD and glued battery.

Never mind how long your MacBook lasts without giving you a problem. Can you fix it if the memory or the SSD gives you a problem, or can you upgrade it? No!

The design philosophy at Apple changed 180 degrees from user upgradeable and repairable to absolutely non in 12 years.

It would be nice if we could at least still change our batteries as easily as we could in the past, or upgrade our memory and storage.

To make things worse, Apple refuses to service, even at cost, machines that they classified as "obsolete" So, I cannot get my 2012 MacBook Pro serviced if something goes wrong.

Planned obsolescence is the only way to sustain increase in sales and crippling repairability as well as upgradeability is the only way to ensure that. Not a good user experience but good for the corporate profits.

 

[Hemingray]

I'm not an Apple fanboy by any means, but the biggest reason I still purchase Apple products is because of longevity. Obviously this committee has never owned a Dell or HP product. Talk about throwing away a computer after three years of use. I have a 2009 24" iMac and a 2010 13" MacBook Pro that still work perfectly every day.

Speaking personally, I own several Dell products (currently have 5 in my household compared to 1 Mac) - I just replaced one that had been running faithfully for 15 years.

I'm fed up with Apple sacrificing functionality for design. Because of Apple's poor design decisions, I'm now on my 3rd butterfly keyboard on my 2017 MBP and Apple has basically told me the next time it will be on my dime. Oh and only USB-C ports so I need to find an adapter every time I want to plug something into my Mac. I've been using Macs since 1985 and this is probably my last one. I'm so done.

P.S. Your 2009 and 2010 Macs both have user replaceable parts and more port options than you will ever find on a modern Mac.

 

[apparatchik]

The expression is "Capitalism 101". This derives from American university course numbering schemes, where "subject + number" denotes the level at which the subject is taught (in theory, this allows you to take follow-up courses even at other universities, and have an expectation of continuity). The "101" denotes the introductory level.

Thanks, now it makes sense, I lived in the US -briefly, visiting family every winter-, but some expressions might not crossover entirely, in Spanish you would just say 1. Like, European History I, Mathematics I, etc.

 

[jonblatho]

Not exactly comparing apples with apples there. A highly miniaturised device vs something modular like a smartphone isn't realistic - like comparing a tower PC to a laptop.

Try harder.

None of that negates their impact on the environment.

If anyone needs to try harder, it’s Apple.

 

[Maximara]

Your car analogy also shows that you have very limited understanding. IT IS the case that car technology becomes more integrated and cars are harder to repair / maintenance, partially because there is more technology packed into parts, engine miniaturisation, etc. You cannot nearly repair cars as much yourself as you used to. And yes, more and more you need to have your cars repaired by brand-specific repair shops rather than just your car repair shop around the corner, or at least they need to have proprietary parts and tools to maintain your car.

It's gotten so bad that the America Automobile Association garage in Las Cruces, NM would have to pony up $100,000 for a machine that would just tell them what is wrong with a particular car line. So few people drive that brand of car that it wasn't worth it. Even all these years later I am still trying to wrap my head around that number just to tell you what is wrong.

 

[Maximara]

How does that excuse Apple making it harder to repair?

How well can you repair your refrigerator, your car, your washer/dryer, your TV? Heck thanks to the way things are designed today it has gotten to the point that only the "safe-tech" stuff (Like electrical wiring, plumbing, and furniture) is reasonably repairable.

I am also reminded of my father who worked on old cars and the problem he would run into. He would fix one part, which would put a strain on the other old parts and one of them would break and he'd fix that part which would put a strain on the remaining parts and before he knew it he had put in $1000 in a car not even worth $600.

Sometimes repair is not better then replace.

 

[Septembersrain]

Things are just not made to last anymore. Which is frustrating considering the prices continue to rise as you get less. My biggest qualm is being told that I would 50/50 be able to get a battery replacement without updating iOS. I do not like iOS 14. I do not want it. Yet going to a third party would void my AppleCare+.

They did a battery replacement on my 7 Plus and it ended with me getting a refurb. Now with knowing I played screen lottery with my 11 Pro Max and I'm currently content, one battery change could utterly destroy this.

So such a simple task is turning into a headache and it's horrid.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

As long as these devices are properly recycled instead of tossed out onto dumps in developing countries, I see no problem with the low repairability of Apple products.

The best way to recycle a device is to fix it so it keeps working.

Melting these devices down into metal, and reusing that metal to build a new device, releases a lot of carbon emissions. Less than throwing the device in a landfill and digging up more raw materials from a mine, but way more than just repairing the broken part.

 

[NT1440]

The best way to recycle a device is to fix it so it keeps working.

Melting these devices down into metal, and reusing that metal to build a new device, releases a lot of carbon emissions.

Lotta functional 3GS’s out there?

At some point a device is EOL, period.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Lotta functional 3GS’s out there?

At some point a device is EOL, period.

Not many, but a 6S for instance is more than adequate for what 99% of people need to do on a phone.

And an iPhone 5S or 6 would probably be adequate for 80+% of people, if Apple hadn’t dropped software support.

 

[Maximara]

The best way to recycle a device is to fix it so it keeps working.

Not always. Sometimes a device is so sensitive that repairing on part cause others to fail.

Melting these devices down into metal, and reusing that metal to build a new device, releases a lot of carbon emissions. Less than throwing the device in a landfill and digging up more raw materials from a mine, but way more than just repairing the broken part.

Look up the concept of Peak (whatever) sometime. Never mind this demonstrates totally cluelessness regarding where new part came from. It came the mine you were banging on about.

This is common problem I see in arguments like this - they look at only one part of the picture and ignore the rest. I have even see the totally jaw dropping insane comment that it takes less energy to make new aluminum then to recycle old (I really wish I was kidding on this as the most basic of research shows it to be false).

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Never mind this demonstrates totally cluelessness regarding where new part came from. It came the mine you were banging on about.

Sure, but much better one part than the entire phone! And if trying to replace that part could cause others to fail, well, any chance of success at all is better than automatically throwing away the whole thing.

I do think I know something of what I'm talking about, but if you have some reading for me I'd be happy to check out alternate viewpoints. You suggested I look up the concept of "Peak", but that's not a Google-able term on its own, I need some context.

 

[Hammerd]

Well, both parties are right. Apple make short-lived products with recycled materials

 

[NT1440]

Not many, but a 6S for instance is more than adequate for what 99% of people need to do on a phone.

And an iPhone 5S or 6 would probably be adequate for 80+% of people, if Apple hadn’t dropped software support.

My 6s is still running strong, gave it to a friend when he broke his.

Are there ANY Android devices out there that are still supported from this timespan?

The industry has a lot of work to do, but Apple’s longevity for the average person is best in class, period.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Are there ANY Android devices out there that are still supported from this timespan?

No, there's not!

Apple is way better than the Android world in this regard... just, still quite bad in absolute terms, particularly when you consider the environmental impact of these devices.

 

[MaxinMusicCity]

Their product last for ages. My 2014 MBP still runs completely fine (besides the depleted battery) and iPhones probably have the longest OS update support in the industry.

What is true that their products are hard to repair, part of it is because of more compact design, tightening tolerances and waterproof-ness. But to my knowledge if you go to an Apple Store and they have to exchange parts / computers, the exchanged product gets recycles.

They could clearly build their products to be more repairable or modular, but then product quality would suffer. It's very clear they are prioritising product quality and do what they can do to mitigate the negative effects of bad repairability.

Servicing items of diminishing size may be difficult to impossible. I once worked on equipment that a single sneeze or breeze could sent a miniscule part out of sight never to be found again. Replacing surface-mount parts was a royal pain.