UK folks lack of pronouncing the letter "H"....

[Scepticalscribe]

You folks might find the following interesting.

Survey of English Dialects



Also

Well, I have to say that I always find that sort of thing interesting (and thanks for posting it).

Another matter - tucked away in the footnotes of histories of the English language are the references to what has been termed as 'The Great Vowel Shift' (which seems to have occurred between the 16th and the 18th centuries and which altered how some words were pronounced, leading, in part to the curious disconnect between how the language is written and spoken at times).

 

[mooblie]

Ha! Thanks autocorrect. No idea what ftfy means, by the way. Hopefully nothing offensive!

No... = "Fixed that for you".

 

[whooleytoo]

I think the OP said 'one' actor in that movie, not necessarily Liam Neeson. He is British (NI), but I haven't seen the movie, was he playing a cockney? The Northern Irish struggle to pronounce the letter 'H' too it is worth noting. Southern Irish struggle with the letter 'T'. Its all about the region

It gets a lot more granular too than just Northern Ireland & the Republic, even in this city (Cork) alone there are different accents from different areas, and it's not that big.

In some English accents (London?) any trailing "t" is silent, and it seems like the words at the end of sentences go on and on... "I'm going to the airporrrrrr, on Tuesdayyyyy". Whereas in (Northern) Dublin the trailing t is also silent, but the words come to a very abrupt end. "turn righ for the airpo, righ?"

Won't comment too much on the local (Cork accent), but it has very few fans. Very nasal, rises and falls in tone.

It's funny how a couple of small(ish) island have such a variety of accents. Is it the same in other parts of the world? I'd assume so.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

It gets a lot more granular too than just Northern Ireland & the Republic, even in this city (Cork) alone there are different accents from different areas, and it's not that big.

In some English accents (London?) any trailing "t" is silent, and it seems like the words at the end of sentences go on and on... "I'm going to the airporrrrrr, on Tuesdayyyyy". Whereas in (Northern) Dublin the trailing t is also silent, but the words come to a very abrupt end. "turn righ for the airpo, righ?"

Won't comment too much on the local (Cork accent), but it has very few fans. Very nasal, rises and falls in tone.

It's funny how a couple of small(ish) island have such a variety of accents. Is it the same in other parts of the world? I'd assume so.

Not in countries where the patterns of settlement are a lot more recent.

I suspect that countries such as Ireland and the UK, where various forms of English has been spoken for several centuries have a far greater variety of deeply rooted regional accents than more recently settled English speaking countries (US, Canada, Australia and NZ for example).

Actually, I have heard it argued that some of the Munster accents in Ireland resemble a form of spoken speech that might more closely resemble features of (Tudor) Elizabethan English than are found these days in modern England.

 

[MatthewLTL]

And how do you Americans pronounce 'herb'

Anyway, the H-dropping is one of the characteristic features of Cockney English dialect/accent.

I have ALWAYS said Herb, annoys the **** outta me when people say "Erb"

----------

As others have said there are so many regional accents in the UK and pronunciation is very different across the United Kingdom. I am always shocked how many Americans/Australians think we drink tea with our pinkies in the air, smoke pipes, shout 'good shot old boy' and commute to our daily grind in a Spitfire while sporting a moustache. How's that for a generalisation?

There are a few English speaking countries that have a very different grasp on the language too. I can't watch Judge Judy, Jerry Springer, or American reality TV shows because half the time I can't understand what is being said through all the yo's, dogs and man's.. That is after I have got past the false dramatisation, panning shots and repeating of scenes we have seen only seconds earlier on all these shows! I know this is not representative of Americans as a whole but I still don't know why you put up with it!

I actually see that deplicted in plenty of movies.

----------

English then. Interestingly, Liam Neeson is Irish.

Liam Neeson stars in the movie, he's not what the thread is about

 

[bunnspecial]

I have ALWAYS said Herb, annoys the **** outta me when people say "Erb"

"Erb" is considered to be the correct American pronunciation. "Herb" is the preferred British pronunciation. It's rare that I hear it pronounced any way other than "Erb" in the US.

"Herb" was the custodian at a job I had a few years ago

 

[mobilehaathi]

Well, I have to say that I always find that sort of thing interesting (and thanks for posting it).

Another matter - tucked away in the footnotes of histories of the English language are the references to what has been termed as 'The Great Vowel Shift' (which seems to have occurred between the 16th and the 18th centuries and which altered how some words were pronounced, leading, in part to the curious disconnect between how the language is written and spoken at times).

I can usually count on you to find my links interesting.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

It gets a lot more granular too than just Northern Ireland & the Republic, even in this city (Cork) alone there are different accents from different areas, and it's not that big.



In some English accents (London?) any trailing "t" is silent, and it seems like the words at the end of sentences go on and on... "I'm going to the airporrrrrr, on Tuesdayyyyy". Whereas in (Northern) Dublin the trailing t is also silent, but the words come to a very abrupt end. "turn righ for the airpo, righ?"



Won't comment too much on the local (Cork accent), but it has very few fans. Very nasal, rises and falls in tone.



It's funny how a couple of small(ish) island have such a variety of accents. Is it the same in other parts of the world? I'd assume so.

I'd love to know exactly how many accents there are in total throughout the UK and Ireland. Here in Wales it's no different. Cardiff and Newport have very different accents despite being only several miles apart, neither are particularly nice sounding accents. Travel to Caerphilly it's different again, Pontypridd, the Rhondda up through the South Wales valleys I think each town sounds different and broader towards mid and West Wales. The North from Wrexham across to Anglesey sound almost Dutch to me when English is spoken lol.

This is why I laugh when we are lumped together with our countrymen when our accents are discussed. There are just far too many. I bet if you went half way round the world and asked people where a Geordie and a Devonshire lad were from, they most probably wouldn't realise they are from the same country!

 

[vrDrew]

I'd love to know exactly how many accents there are in total throughout the UK and Ireland.

The thing that is (somewhat) unique about Britain's various accents is that, in addition to the geographical variation, there is also a pronounced social element to them as well.

In the US, one can tell if a young woman is from Tennessee versus Georgia fairly easily. But you cannot tell whether or not her father went to university, or she went to a private school just by listening to her talk. You can, by and large, do that in England.

Regional accents have largely disappeared from National television here in the United States. Everyone speaks with a midwestern-flavored "standard" American accent. Not true in Britain, where the US visitor will periodically encounter Scots burrs and Geordie glottals, to say nothing of perpetual Estuary drawls, far more than the received pronunciation of Noel Coward and Trevor Howard.

Many of my US friends struggle to understand most Brit-pop movies. And my English friends likewise struggle to decipher many African-American speakers.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

The thing that is (somewhat) unique about Britain's various accents is that, in addition to the geographical variation, there is also a pronounced social element to them as well.

In the US, one can tell if a young woman is from Tennessee versus Georgia fairly easily. But you cannot tell whether or not her father went to university, or she went to a private school just by listening to her talk. You can, by and large, do that in England.

Regional accents have largely disappeared from National television here in the United States. Everyone speaks with a midwestern-flavored "standard" American accent. Not true in Britain, where the US visitor will periodically encounter Scots burrs and Geordie glottals, to say nothing of perpetual Estuary drawls, far more than the received pronunciation of Noel Coward and Trevor Howard.

Many of my US friends struggle to understand most Brit-pop movies. And my English friends likewise struggle to decipher many African-American speakers.

That is exactly what I meant when I suggested that accent is a signifier of social class every bit as much as it is a signifier of regional identity in the UK.

The respective accents of the various regions are also very deeply rooted in the regions, in that some version of a given particular accent may well have been spoken in that particular region for centuries.

You simply don't see this degree of variation of accent in the US.

 

[whooleytoo]

Not in countries where the patterns of settlement are a lot more recent.

I suspect that countries such as Ireland and the UK, where various forms of English has been spoken for several centuries have a far greater variety of deeply rooted regional accents than more recently settled English speaking countries (US, Canada, Australia and NZ for example).

Actually, I have heard it argued that some of the Munster accents in Ireland resemble a form of spoken speech that might more closely resemble features of (Tudor) Elizabethan English than are found these days in modern England.

That's interesting, thanks.

I do know that we (Munster folk) are often ridiculed for using "ye" in place of the plural you, which is old English; there are probably lots of other carry-overs too. (Apart from being a matter of habit, I find it very useful to have separate words for you, singular and ye, plural).

I love reading about the origins of accents and local idiomatic phrases like these, and how they can often be traced back to surprising origins - such as I recently read that much of the (harsher) Dublin accent traces back to the Viking origins of the city.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

That's interesting, thanks.

I do know that we (Munster folk) are often ridiculed for using "ye" in place of the plural you, which is old English; there are probably lots of other carry-overs too. (Apart from being a matter of habit, I find it very useful to have separate words for you, singular and ye, plural).

I love reading about the origins of accents and local idiomatic phrases like these, and how they can often be traced back to surprising origins - such as I recently read that much of the (harsher) Dublin accent traces back to the Viking origins of the city.

I'd suggest that you take a look at Melvyn Bragg's book 'The Story of English', which I found a most interesting read. As is often the case with such works, the last chapter (where he deals with late 20th century English) is by far the weakest, but the earlier stuff, on syntax, grammar, vocabulary, accents, and the development of a standard language are all fascinating to read, and written about in a very easy, accessible, engaging prose.

In both Ireland and the Uk, accent as a signifier of social class - as well as region - is also fairly pronounced. This is because class differences couldn't really be identified otherwise, as everyone looked much the same and adhered to the same religion, which are the more usual sources of explicitly expressed division elsewhere.

Ever since Norman French was supplanted in the 14th and 15th centuries, and Latin lost its position as the main language of culture and learning after the Reformation, they even spoke the same language - hence how they spoke that language became the signifier of difference and of ho distinctions were drawn.

Dublin, yes, that is very interesting and I suspect that there may well be something in it. Actually, Bragg argues that the 'north south divide' in England is both linguistic and ancient, with roots dating back to Norse times.

 

[A.Goldberg]

There a number of people I can think of the US who drop H's at the front of words. They are usually the ones that unnecessarily include the H's in words like wHat and wHen.

When it comes to words like human, they drop the h and just sport the -uman.

Cool wHip.

 

[0098386]

I'd love to know exactly how many accents there are in total throughout the UK and Ireland.

That's got to be impossible. I live in the same area my parents did and even we pronounce things differently. I "luck in a buck", whereas my folks say "luke in a buke", and going further back my grandparents say "kekkle" whereas I say "keh-ttle". My GF who was brought up just a mile away calls it a "ke-hul". My local friends call stairs "sters", I say "sturs".

I love it! You can really pindown where people are from and how old they are by how they talk and what they say.

The only thing I don't like about US accents is how they pronounce "herbs", and I don't know why!

 

[Scepticalscribe]

That's got to be impossible. I live in the same area my parents did and even we pronounce things differently. I "luck in a buck", whereas my folks say "luke in a buke", and going further back my grandparents say "kekkle" whereas I say "keh-ttle". My GF who was brought up just a mile away calls it a "ke-hul". My local friends call stairs "sters", I say "sturs".

I love it! You can really pindown where people are from and how old they are by how they talk and what they say.

The only thing I don't like about US accents is how they pronounce "herbs", and I don't know why!

Until the advent or radio and TV - when people in most regions had access to being able to hear (as opposed to simply reading a standardised formalised language) 'received pronunciation' - I suspect that regional accents, especially remote, or rural regional accents spoken by people who were deeply rooted in their communities and had never, or rarely, travelled far outside them, changed little for decades or centuries.

Being able to hear standardised 'received pronunciation', and wider access to secondary and higher education may have had an effect on accent, as people now had access to how others - from different regions, or social classes - actually spoke. Until well into the 19th century, the vast majority of people in the UK rarely travelled more than 20 miles from the place of their birth for their entire life.

 

[OllyW]

An explanation as to why I speak with a distinct accent.

 

[Ingster]

I find accents interesting, the fact that some people change accents after living in a place after a while and some who don't (usually the 'stronger' accents - glaswegian/liverpudlian/Black Country etc). What does mystify me is the university accent, get people from around the country living and socialising together eventually the accents merge into an odd non-accent which seems to also sound 'posh' sorry if i'm not explaining well, most of the university students I know of have this weird accent.