Underwhelmed by Ventura

[Killerbob]

After 24 hours of running Ventura PB1 on my Mac Studio, I must say I am a bit surprised there aren't any more changes.

Sure, there is Stage Manager - a day late and a dollar short, System Settings Appearance has changed - not for the better, you can now use your iPhone as a Webcam - wow, Passkey - we already have a myriad of apps available for that, some changes to Messenger and Mail - that's nice, and then the only change I think is really going to make a difference - you can now create continuously updated albums in Photos properly...

I am just left feeling a bit underwhelmed, thinking Ventura is what Monterey was supposed to have been.

There may be more coming, this is just a Public Beta after all, and perhaps it is just more stable in the background.

 

[fisherking]

would it help if apple added flashing leds? 🤔 i mean, isn't there great value in 'more stable in the background'?

i like the new system settings, don't need stage manager. am happy to see improvements in mail, messages..mostly, i want my mac to run smoothly, efficiently...and support the other apps i depend on. and so far, so good.

a first public beta that seems stable and where things are (mostly) working well? 👍

 

[Killerbob]

I do agree that for a first public beta, Ventura seems particularly stable. My grief is perhaps triggered to some extent that I rushed to get a Mac Studio because my trusty ol' Mac Pro 2013 is no longer capable to get macOS updates (I have a working machine, my 2019 Mac Pro, and a fun machine, which used to be my 2013 Mac Pro - now that is my Mac Studio.)

Apple has a chance every year to listen to their user base and add functionality we really ask for, and they just seem to not do that, ever. I mean why are we giving them suggestions?

On a slightly different note; how many people are really still using Mail as their preferred mail client? I switched to Outlook long ago, and haven't looked back.

 

[Mr.Blacky]

I do agree that for a first public beta, Ventura seems particularly stable. My grief is perhaps triggered to some extent that I rushed to get a Mac Studio because my trusty ol' Mac Pro 2013 is no longer capable to get macOS updates (I have a working machine, my 2019 Mac Pro, and a fun machine, which used to be my 2013 Mac Pro - now that is my Mac Studio.)

Apple has a chance every year to listen to their user base and add functionality we really ask for, and they just seem to not do that, ever. I mean why are we giving them suggestions?

On a slightly different note; how many people are really still using Mail as their preferred mail client? I switched to Outlook long ago, and haven't looked back.

What is that functionality "we" really ask for?

 

[dmr727]

On a slightly different note; how many people are really still using Mail as their preferred mail client? I switched to Outlook long ago, and haven't looked back.

I do. I wasn't too thrilled with the last round of UI changes, but overall it's fine for what I use it for.

 

[jeffg819]

Still use Mail for all my accounts. Combined with Things, I have a very ingrained to do system in place. Outside of Excel for Windows, I'm not much on the look/feel of MS apps.

 

[Killerbob]

What is that functionality "we" really ask for?

The ones I see referenced the most are:

- Better Windows Management - and this is not Stage Manager, but more like Divvy, or something the like. Just remembering where windows were set last they shut down would be nice TBH.

- iCloud backup of macOS - just like it is done with iOS. Not of the data volume, but now the two are split, it would be simple. Perhaps an iCloud backup of your User folder?

- App Store needs TLC. It is slow, clunky, and hideous.

And that's just the first three that come to mind. I know that "we" is a very general statement...

 

[fisherking]

The ones I see referenced the most are:

- Better Windows Management - and this is not Stage Manager, but more like Divvy, or something the like. Just remembering where windows were set last they shut down would be nice TBH.

- iCloud backup of macOS - just like it is done with iOS. Not of the data volume, but now the two are split, it would be simple. Perhaps an iCloud backup of your User folder?

- App Store needs TLC. It is slow, clunky, and hideous.

And that's just the first three that come to mind. I know that "we" is a very general statement...

that's what you want (and not unreasonable). but if we start this game, we get a thread with a million ideas, all different, all tied to each user's idea of what the OS should look like. and it quickly becomes a train wreck.

my theory (nothing more than that) is: Mail comes with the mac, works, and, for most people, sending and receiving email is all they need to do, so they use Mail (or just do something like gmail online). but i have not taken a poll.

perhaps take a poll...

 

[Killerbob]

It actually wasn't my list, but rather the ones I see most often referenced.

 

[StellarVixen]

Another Mac OS version, another year of not being able to use Time Machine with iCloud Drive

 

[Monotremata]

Another Mac OS version, another year of not being able to use Time Machine with iCloud Drive

Not sure why they would do that without charging anyone for it. Considering my Time Machine backup alone is 3x 1TB and 1x 4TB drives all being backed up to it, I doubt Apple wants to just give terabytes of free storage space out to every Mac user across the globe..

 

[StellarVixen]

Not sure why they would do that without charging anyone for it. Considering my Time Machine backup alone is 3x 1TB and 1x 4TB drives all being backed up to it, I doubt Apple wants to just give terabytes of free storage space out to every Mac user across the globe..

Ok, let’s say I already pay for 2TB plan. I have 512Gb system drive, for which 2TB is enough. Why am I not able to use it for Time Machine?

 

[jz0309]

After 24 hours of running Ventura PB1 on my Mac Studio, I must say I am a bit surprised there aren't any more changes.

Sure, there is Stage Manager - a day late and a dollar short, System Settings Appearance has changed - not for the better, you can now use your iPhone as a Webcam - wow, Passkey - we already have a myriad of apps available for that, some changes to Messenger and Mail - that's nice, and then the only change I think is really going to make a difference - you can now create continuously updated albums in Photos properly...

I am just left feeling a bit underwhelmed, thinking Ventura is what Monterey was supposed to have been.

There may be more coming, this is just a Public Beta after all, and perhaps it is just more stable in the background.

What you are listing is what Apple told us would be there, when introducing Ventura, so you knew what you would get.
For me, none of those features are reasons to upgrade as eg I do not use mail, photos, spotlight etc. but, I’ve been on Monterey PB since it became available so I will most likely install this PB. I just enjoy tinkering with new stuff and sooner or later I will have to use it anyway when Nee HE is required.

 

[SpotOnT]

I switched to Outlook long ago, and haven't looked back.

What does Outlook do for you that Mail doesn't?

I have always found Mail is good enough for me.

 

[tranceking26]

On a slightly different note; how many people are really still using Mail as their preferred mail client? I switched to Outlook long ago, and haven't looked back.

I do and have had hardly any problems when using it. Back on my old '15 MBP it would sometimes not load things, but on my new M1 Air it's never happened again.

 

[Killerbob]

What does Outlook do for you that Mail doesn't?

I have always found Mail is good enough for me.

I am using Outlook, for many reasons; I believe Outlook to be a more secure client with more powerful spam filtering (built-in protection for phishing for instance). Outlook supports IMAP, POP3, SMTP, Exchange, Office 365, and Outlook.com. It also supports third-party add-ins, and then there is the integration with Microsoft's other apps and services. You can add complex rules to manage messages and automate tasks, and it is the same across my many platforms (Windows, macOS, and Smart Devices). The built-in calendar is nice as well. And on a personal note, I use Outlook in the corporate world, always have been, and I like the similarity...

Mail for sure is simple, easy-to-use, and built into macOS and iOS devices, it finally supports IMAP, POP3, and SMTP, and it is quick, but that is not enough for me to even consider switching.

 

[johannnn]

I am just left feeling a bit underwhelmed, thinking Ventura is what Monterey was supposed to have been.

https://www.apple.com/macos/macos-ventura-preview/features/ there are tons of small new features.

On a slightly different note; how many people are really still using Mail as their preferred mail client?

All Mac users I know use either Mail.app (if they use iCloud), the web interface if they use gmail, and outlook only for their work email.

 

[Matty_TypeR]

I don't like this new OSX every year, Monterey isn't even final yet and and ventura is in beta 4 or 5. why do we need a new OSX every year? all it does is get bigger with more bugs to sort out. I don't need IOS integration all i want is a stable desktop OSX. 12gig compared to Mojave 6g even windows 11 is under 6g

Apple seem to use this new OSX each year to retire older hardware. Just an excuse for people to have to buy new hardware, hardly being green is it. Apple should just use a service pack for current OSX and forget this new version every dam year when last years version isn't even final yet.

 

[fisherking]

I don't like this new OSX every year, Monterey isn't even final yet and and ventura is in beta 4 or 5. why do we need a new OSX every year? all it does is get bigger with more bugs to sort out. I don't need IOS integration all i want is a stable desktop OSX. 12gig compared to Mojave 6g even windows 11 is under 6g

Apple seem to use this new OSX each year to retire older hardware. Just an excuse for people to have to buy new hardware, hardly being green is it. Apple should just use a service pack for current OSX and forget this new version every dam year when last years version isn't even final yet.

apple is a business, and it obviously makes 'business' sense to the company to do new yearly OSes. meanwhile, you don't have to update every year, you can do what you want.

apple has the image of a 'friendy' corporation, but it's still just... a corporation.

 

[darngooddesign]

...On a slightly different note; how many people are really still using Mail as their preferred mail client? I switched to Outlook long ago, and haven't looked back.

I've been using Mail since Jaguar.

 

[Killerbob]

Apple seem to use this new OSX each year to retire older hardware. Just an excuse for people to have to buy new hardware, hardly being green is it. Apple should just use a service pack for current OSX and forget this new version every dam year when last years version isn't even final yet.

I fully agree with you. Ventura could easily be a service pack to Monterey, but like you say, Apple uses the annual macOS update to retire hardware.

 

[Matty_TypeR]

apple is a business, and it obviously makes 'business' sense to the company to do new yearly OSes. meanwhile, you don't have to update every year, you can do what you want.

apple has the image of a 'friendy' corporation, but it's still just... a corporation.

Thats just BS as apple know if they update the OS they can retire older fully functioning hardware. so you buy new hardware with built in memory, CPU and GPU M1 M2 series is even more of a rip off. say you have your M1 mac mini with 16g ram ram develop a fault with memory and your years warranty is up, will apple remove the memory and replace or will they offer you a new board with CPU/GPU and memory in you original config?

They will offer you a whole new board when only part of that board the memory has failed. You will have to purchase the whole lot on a new board to have your mac mini running again. ( Or studio, which ever ) the old board is scrapped. What a waste of CPU/GPU and board, most likely with BT/ wireless all soldered in as well.

That is not green or good for any corporation business to practise in todays world of waste. especially when your claiming to be green. Plus do you think they will sell you a new board cheap? of course not most likely point you in the direction of a new purchase as to repair and replace new board config will not be far of the price of a new mini.

Apple know what they are doing your right, they know exactly how to claim to be green, then retire fully functioning hardware because the new OS demands it. Just like slowing down the older iphones which they got caught out doing.

There is no need to release new OSX versions, just update the current version to be 100% reliable as it should be.

 

[fisherking]

Thats just BS as apple know if they update the OS they can retire older fully functioning hardware. so you buy new hardware with built in memory, CPU and GPU M1 M2 series is even more of a rip off. say you have your M1 mac mini with 16g ram ram develop a fault with memory and your years warranty is up, will apple remove the memory and replace or will they offer you a new board with CPU/GPU and memory in you original config?

They will offer you a whole new board when only part of that board the memory has failed. You will have to purchase the whole lot on a new board to have your mac mini running again. ( Or studio, which ever ) the old board is scrapped. What a waste of CPU/GPU and board, most likely with BT/ wireless all soldered in as well.

That is not green or good for any corporation business to practise in todays world of waste. especially when your claiming to be green. Plus do you think they will sell you a new board cheap? of course not most likely point you in the direction of a new purchase as to repair and replace new board config will not be far of the price of a new mini.

Apple know what they are doing your right, they know exactly how to claim to be green, then retire fully functioning hardware because the new OS demands it. Just like slowing down the older iphones which they got caught out doing.

There is no need to release new OSX versions, just update the current version to be 100% reliable as it should be.

just because you say something doesn't make it true, or accurate. i hear you, really, but disagree, mostly. either way, apple does what it chooses to do, that's how life works. and again, you don't have to upgrade every year, most people don't.

 

[Matty_TypeR]

just because you say something doesn't make it true, or accurate. i hear you, really, but disagree, mostly. either way, apple does what it chooses to do, that's how life works. and again, you don't have to upgrade every year, most people don't.

Thing is it is true, does apple support machines with OS mojave with security updates, or the new version of safari? NO they dont, so your only choice is new hardware to get newer version of OSX. will caterlina be fully supported with security updates for ever NO because again your only way forward is New OSX and new hardware.

Apple does what it does to make more money, not to support its customers who invested in there hardware. Its a money making machine that cares only for profit. It got caught out slowing down older iphones, yes so the people would buy new ones.

Windows 10 will have 12 years of support before it stops from release to end. no new hardware required to run the latest win 10.

Mojave release date 24 september 2018 last mojave update 30 november 2021. 3 years! woppi doo. Apple is just a money orientated machine, customers come 2nd place. they dont care what hardware they invested in, they just want them to buy new and into an ever closed apple ecosphere where you cant even use other hardware like GPU upgrades or add more memory.

 

[unrigestered]

Windows 10 will have 12 years of support before it stops from release to end. no new hardware required to run the latest win 10.

it will probably get support for most parts for even quite some time longer

my Windows 7 laptop is still getting everything updated, other than security holes inside the OS itself (which of course could pose some danger), but i'm still getting
- daily Windows Defender anti virus definition updates
- monthly malware removal updates
- the standard web browser is still still getting updates (Edge replaced Internet Explorer by an update on it's own, despite Win 7 already hasn't been supported officially anymore at that point, and it just got a new update just a couple of days ago)
- my Office 2010 suite is still getting frequent updates

i love my new Macs, but regarding long term software support (and compatibility), Microsoft seems to care much more about their products, while Apple seems to try finding ways to make their products obsolete the quickest way possible without having literally everyone going to the court for fraud