Uneveness? Glossyness? Dead Pixels?

Discussion in 'iMac' started by Tragedies, Oct 18, 2007.

  1. Tragedies macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    #1
    These are the three main problems concerning me when I get my iMac tomorrow.

    I'm definitely getting an iMac, as I've waited many months for one, but I don't know what to look out for (in faults) and I'm not sure if the Glossy Screen will be a problem.

    First off, I've been hearing complaints about screen color being uneven on some iMacs. I'm getting the 20inch iMac and am wondering if the problem is in this iMac too, and if so, how can I fix it, or should I send off for a new one if I have this problem?

    Secondly, I've used a matte screen ever since I can remember. I've never used a glossy screen at all, and I don't really know what to expect from the iMacs screen. My room has average normal lighting which I don't think will be much of a problem, but is it easy to get used to the glare if you've never used a non-matte screen?

    Lastly, I've heard a few complaints about dead pixels. I've never had a dead pixel on any devices (such as Nintendo Ds, iPods, computers). Are Dead Pixels common, and are they easy to get rid off? I'd prefer not to send off my iMac to get a new one just because of a dead pixel, but as I've never had one I'm not sure how annoying they are.

    Sorry for the really long post, just a little curious.

    Thanks,

    Mikey.
     
  2. psonice macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2005
    #2
    I've had a 24" for a while, and also have a second monitor with a TN panel (which is the same type that the 19" has), and here's my thinking on your questions:

    - Screen colours are always 'uneven' on most LCD panels, particularly the TN panels like the 20". The problem is mainly when you view the screen from an angle - the colours change shade, and you can often see a 'gradient' if you have a large area of one colour (eg. if you have a plain blue background, it will look lighter at the top than the bottom). This is actually very minor though (unless you have a really cheap panel, or a very old one - it was really nasty in the old days!) and you'd need to actually look for it to really notice. Some complain about uneven lighting and a 'yellow tint' on the 24" monitors too - perhaps it's an issue with certain macs, I've not noticed it myself.

    - Glossiness... well, I've always used matte before, and really hate some of the glossy laptop screens I've seen. It's been a non-issue with the imac really though - it looks like a mirror when it's turned off, but when the screen is actually on you can only see reflections on very dark parts of the screen. 'Glare' is actually not an issue at all on a glossy screen. Glare is more like what you get on a matte screen when the sun shines on it, and the screen gets that horrible glare so you can't see it properly.

    - Dead pixels are more common on cheaper screens, and less common on 'better quality' ones. I've seen quite a few on cheap branded screens, but almost none on HP, Dell or Apple screens. There's sure to be the odd screen with one though - if you get one, try one of the videos that are supposed to fix them (they just show flashing colours, leave it on overnight or so - sometimes it works, sometimes not) and failing that ask apple to replace it.

    The main thing with the new imac is to calibrate the screen when you get it - it'll look miles better straight away.
     
  3. nickf macrumors member

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    #3
    I have one stuck pixel (red) on my 20" Al-iMac, towards the centre of the screen.

    But, tbh, it's not a problem and I only notice it if I set out to look for it. Even then I can hardly see it. It's certainly not worth the hassle of trying to get the machine replaced.

    I've bought my first Mac in '90 (a 4 Mb LC!) and can happily say that the new iMac is by far the most impressive machine I've owned.
     
  4. Leon Kowalski macrumors 6502a

    Leon Kowalski

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Location:
    Gondwanaland Reunification Front HQ
    #4
    OTOH, there have been reliable reports expressing a somewhat different opinion:

    ...denial IS NOT a river in Egypt,

    LK
     
  5. AlMac24 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2007
    Location:
    Near Guildford, GB
    #5
    I was getting similarly worried during the 4 or 5 weeks between ordering my 20" and receiving it (on Oct 1st by the way - well timed for an almost free Leopard upgrade!:)).

    Glare - wasn't a problem for my room. The window is behind the screen and there are no lights in front. Yes, I see my reflection if large parts of the screen are black, but that's not often and generally transient (i.e. on a website and I move on, or in a film and the scene changes).

    Dead pixels - not one to be seen (touch-wood!) so far!

    Screen gradient - yes, if I change the desktop picture to a solid colour, it is lighter at the bottom, but my desktop has a picture on it, and I just don't notice it. If I move a finder window down, yes it gets lighter, but it's simply not an issue for me. It's exactly the same on my Powerbook. I do a bit of light Photoshop-ing but as I tend to keep the area I'm working on in one place, again, not an issue!

    So all in all - I needn't have worried, it's a fantastic bit of kit! Enjoy it!
     
  6. psonice macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2005
    #6
    Which part of "it looks fine in the flesh but crap on the picture" didn't you get?

    As I said in the post at the time, the photo looks nothing like the actual screen. If there's any yellowing or bluing, it's so slight that I can't actually see it - perhaps it's there and the camera amplifies it, but that's hardly something to complain about. If there's any gradient it's not noticeable too - when I measured it, I got no difference top-to-bottom, and perhaps 20% left to right (probably less, it was right at the limit of what the camera could measure). The only notable unevenness with the backlight is right in the corners, which is fairly common on larger LCDs.

    Do you have a problem with people who have a decent screen?
     
  7. Leon Kowalski macrumors 6502a

    Leon Kowalski

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Location:
    Gondwanaland Reunification Front HQ
    #7
    ... "We report, you decide."

    LK
     
  8. RevToTheRedline macrumors 6502a

    RevToTheRedline

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2007
    #8
    Geesh, Leon you are still here? I thought with all that crying you did in countless posts over your iMac screen you would have surely returned it or sold it by now and moved on with your life. But I guess not.
     
  9. Leon Kowalski macrumors 6502a

    Leon Kowalski

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Location:
    Gondwanaland Reunification Front HQ
    #9
    Yep, I returned 'em both -- first the 20", then the 24" -- and upgraded to a white 20" C2D.

    I don't give a rat's rump how many GHz or GB were hiding behind the ALU iMacs' crappy displays. As far as I'm concerned, my (home) computer's only reason for existence is to acquire, store, and render visual images -- of web pages, family photos, <whatever>. Putting more hardware horsepower behind a POS screen only speeds-up the delivery of a POS result.

    I'll post comparison screen photos after white one arrives (tomorrow or Monday)...

    ...as special favor to the gradient-deniers,

    LK
     
  10. AlexisV macrumors 68000

    AlexisV

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2007
    Location:
    Manchester, UK
    #10
    My 20" glossy renders visual images very well thank you :D
     
  11. Tragedies thread starter macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2007
    Location:
    Melbourne, Australia
    #11
    Wow didn't expect to get so many replies.

    Thanks everyone :D
     
  12. czachorski macrumors 6502a

    czachorski

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    #12
    Boy, it sounds like it would really bother you if anyone gets an iMac with a decent screen: "denial" and "gradient deniers"? You understand that it is possible for 90% of all screen to be normal, and that 1% of buyers would draw on those odds twice and get a dud both times? Just sayin'......

    It's also probable that a bias would exist in on-line forums, resulting in an over-representation of the issue.

    I think you are in denial of probability.
     
  13. SaSaSushi macrumors 68040

    SaSaSushi

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2007
    Location:
    Takamatsu, Japan
    #13
    Actual physical possession of a product you endlessly slam in a user forum is hardly a prerequisite for trolling, Rev.

    Leon may never have actually had one to begin with. Don't let that stop him. He's clearly on an aluminum-imac-bashing jihad and he's not about to let the experiences of (other) iMac owners in here slow him down. He can always use the old "you're lying for your savior, Steve Jobs" routine.
     
  14. Leon Kowalski macrumors 6502a

    Leon Kowalski

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Location:
    Gondwanaland Reunification Front HQ
    #14
    1) I have personally examined nine 24" ALU iMacs -- my own, and 8 showroom samples at two Apple retail stores. They ALL had exactly the same problem.

    2) I measured the brightness gradients on 5 of them -- with a light meter. ALL had L:R luminance ratios of 2.5:1 or worse. One sample measured 3.7:1.

    3) Apple has my photos, light meter readings, and serial numbers of all five.

    4) I have personally examined approximately a dozen 20" ALU iMacs. Every one had exactly the same top-to-bottom brightness and chroma gradients.

    5) Apple declined my offer to provide 20" iMac photographs and light meter readings.

    6) Numerous photos posted on this and other forums, by other owners, document the same model-specific problems in dozens of 20" and 24" ALU iMacs.

    7) I, and others, on several forums, have repeatedly pleaded for photos of an ALU iMac display (either 20" or 24") that does NOT have a serious uniformity problem. To date, there have been only two responses to those requests:

    - One response (see post #4 in this thread) was a photo of a 24" display that clearly has exactly the same problem as all the others mentioned above.

    - The second response was an honest (and much appreciated) effort; but due to unfavorable retail-store lighting conditions and a glossy screen, the photo was (at best) inconclusive: http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4308657&postcount=10

    8) Current score: Gradients = dozens; Ambiguous = 1; Gradient-free = ZERO

    ...what's the probability that NO ONE with a "good" display owns a camera?

    LK
     
  15. czachorski macrumors 6502a

    czachorski

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    #15
    Did you buy your iMacs at the same store you made the observations? Wouldn't that introduce the possibility of bad batch causing a very high bias? I have done the exact same thing in 2 different Apple stores and observed 8-10 24" iMacs with no issues.

    When my 24" comes, if it has a gradient issue, it is going back. I'll post pics here either way, and you can consider me a random sample. I'm starting to see a lot of posts around the web of people who have had zero problems, so I do not think it is very likely that this is as widespread of a problem as you are making it out to be.
     
  16. Leon Kowalski macrumors 6502a

    Leon Kowalski

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Location:
    Gondwanaland Reunification Front HQ
    #16
    Yep, the four showroom samples I checked with a light meter were all in the store where I bought both of my iMacs. I examined four others in a different store, but didn't have the light meter with me. I also took a close look at about a dozen 20" showroom samples, but didn't bother with light meter readings, except on my own. The 20" color gradients were all so bad that the brightness gradients were of little interest. (I don't have the tools or the technical knowledge to make quantitative measurements of a color gradient.)

    Not sure about "batches," but the ones I saw first-hand were all early production models. I could dig up the manufacturing dates of the five 24" units I measured, if anyone cares.

    I dragged my feet for a month (each) hoping that Apple would "fix" the problems -- but finally had to take them back when the 30-day DOA-return time limits expired. Just over a week ago (Oct 10) Apple engineering was still telling me that they've never seen an ALU 24" with a screen that fails to meet their (double-super-secret, unpublished) uniformity specs.

    Of course, in the very same email, Apple told me that the "Apple Product Environmental Specification" -- explicitly for the 24" iMac -- really isn't a "specification" at all. It's only: "for documenting the environmental
    requirements of the machine." So apparently, Apple engineering feels that they're required to meet "specs," but not required to meet "requirements."

    Even by CA standards, One Infinite Loop in Cupertino is one bizzaro planet.

    Either way, your photos will be of great interest to folks who are sitting it out and hoping for fix. There have been a few reports of "better" displays in the latest production models (both 20" and 24") -- but no tangible photographic evidence.

    ...too late for me, I've already upgraded to the previous model,

    LK
     
  17. czachorski macrumors 6502a

    czachorski

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    #17
    Sounds good. One last point of interest - in both stores where I looked, all the 20" iMacs had a noticeable, but very slight color banding, and none of the 24" iMacs has an issues that I could discern. It is possible that the differences between the problems with these 2 screen might be such that you can see the 20" issues clearly in the store, and you can't see the 24" problems until you have them in a normal-lighting situation (those stores are so bright). I will definitely post pics, either way, as I have promised.

    Here's my current set - see that screen - it's a 20" ACD. I will have a nice base line for comparison right next to my new iMac. The ACD is nearly perfect. I also tell you why there are not a lot of screen shots here of good iMacs: motivation. People with good iMacs are hardly even motivated to come to an on-line forum, let along post a pic. People with issues, on the other hand, well it's just the opposite. Clearly, I am motivated because I just ordered one, so I have worry/hope.

    Take care,

    :cool:



    up.[​IMG]
     
  18. SaSaSushi macrumors 68040

    SaSaSushi

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2007
    Location:
    Takamatsu, Japan
    #18
    OK, Leon, here's a picture of my iMac:

    [​IMG]

    Obviously, the color striations in the center are from the glass panel. My machine was ordered on the new iMac's release date and was manufactured on 8/13/07 in Shanghai.

    There is no left-right gradient on this display nor any other backlight unevenness issues that my eyes can detect. The dark area at the top right is the reflection from a poster on the wall opposite the computer.

    Yes, that's a picture of Jabba the Hut at the top left.
     
  19. czachorski macrumors 6502a

    czachorski

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2007
    #19
    Now that's what I'm expecting to see when my 24 shows up next week.
     
  20. gorby macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2007
    #20
    What can I say? I'm a bit afraid to get an iMac now.

    This was going to be my first Mac ever....

    I need a new computer horribly bad, but reading all this.... man


    Even disregarding these 'problems'.... if I understand right, the new panels are not even very good to begin with? (especially the 20) What's up with that?
     
  21. Digital Skunk macrumors 604

    Digital Skunk

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2006
    Location:
    In my imagination
    #21
    :eek::eek: I see a dead pixel, right there, can you see it it's right there! I am not getting the 24" iMac based on 10 people's poor eye sight.

    I know they are looking at them through piss colored glasses but I trust their expert opinion and perfect vision.

    No seriously, I know about 3 people that work here at my paper and they have NO problems with their monitors. One has the 20" the other the 24" and I have been to the Apple Stores in King of Prussia, Penn. and Towson Town Center, MD and I have not seen anything wrong with the displays. The iMac forum is turning into what the MacBook Pro forum was a few months ago. A few people complaining about a small amount (if any) defects and a a bunch of worried people hoping that someone elses opinion and pumped up chest should decide their buying strategy.

    About the photos thing... must people that don't have problems don't post, and when they do, the people complaining don't post anything afterwards. I closed down about three MacBook Pro threads that way.

    Nothing is up with that. If you are a PC user and have NOT been buying high end gear then most of your equipment is below the quality of the iMac anyway. After reading all this the only conclusion that can be made is that some people have problems and some don't with their iMacs, the same story that has been going on sinec ENIAC... or the first motor car. Nothing has changed since technology was invented.
     
  22. HLdan macrumors 603

    HLdan

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2007
    #22
    Gorby, go ahead and get your iMac. Unfortunately you sorta walked into all of this by just reading way too much. These forums can be quite helpful but you should only take a portion of what they are worth. There are plenty of people including myself who have the 24" iMac and are not experiencing any coloration or freezing issues. People like me just don't take enough time to post about them so all you will read about are negative experiences.

    The rule has been "One bad experience tell 10 people" "One good experience tell no one".
     
  23. Leon Kowalski macrumors 6502a

    Leon Kowalski

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Location:
    Gondwanaland Reunification Front HQ
    #23
    What is so difficult about the concept of a CONTROLLED measurement?

    Is it really that hard to turn out the lights and take a striation-free, reflection-free photograph of a solid-colored background from directly in front of the center of the screen?

    LK
     
  24. SaSaSushi macrumors 68040

    SaSaSushi

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2007
    Location:
    Takamatsu, Japan
    #24
    OK, a lights out, front and center shot of my iMac with the shades drawn.

    [​IMG]

    So go ahead tell how am I just so stupid that I can't see the OBVIOUS gradient that is right there in front of my eyes...

    I suppose if you sit and stare at something long and hard enough you can convince yourself it's there. I haven't gotten to that point yet.

    You posted these photos as evidence of a gradient

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=4343491&postcount=14

    My picture is in better focus and a bit larger too.

    Are you going to tell me you see that gradient on my own screen?
     
  25. Leon Kowalski macrumors 6502a

    Leon Kowalski

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Location:
    Gondwanaland Reunification Front HQ
    #25
    I am not aware of any correlation between visual acuity an intelligence.

    I also posted: "For more/larger ... photos ... see: http://picasaweb.google.com/TheLooby "

    And thus, mine is more than twice as big as yours.
    My photos are larger, too.

    What "I see" is subject to carbon-unit frailities and bias...

    ...why not ask Mr. DigitalColorMeter.app ?

    LK
     

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