MikeyUnix

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Oct 10, 2019
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The problem is expensive does not mean competitive. As a UK original Mac user, who literally had the first Mac's brought over to the UK, I'm so disappointed at how Apple under Tim Cook has gone from its original concept to a fashion item with more interest in glitz than guts. For $50,000 any user needing power can easily get a power base much more powerful.

The Mac platform has been absolutely wonderful, originating from creative minds utilising Xerox original GUI ideas to make a machine users perform creative tasks with ease as the machine works for them, not the other way round. Now its been turned on its backside, with virtually every new OSX spending more time on glitz than functionality that really serves the user. Yes iPhones are pretty, iPhones are usable, but it should not mean that higher level computing, and creativity on the Mac range has to match the prettiness, with so much effort into emoji's and the like.

Apple has lost its way. The Mac Pro is similar to my old Mac Pro, which was a great machine, no doubt about it, but I don't need facilities to make it look pretty, colourful emojis as a fashion item, I just want a powerful machine that makes it easier and quicker to do the job better than anything else on the market, and I'm afraid the Mac line up has not done that for quite a while. Even the laptops are no longer really competitive products but fashion items.

A MacBook Pro will set you back around $1600, yet the WINTEL machines which I've emigrated from years ago, have comparative power machines for $400 with similar processing or better. Yes I could never go back to WINTEL, but I'm saddened by the route Apple takes. Takes too long to incorporate faster processors and components, in most cases designed NOT to be able to upgrade with the Mac Pro being the exception, but at what cost. Apple under Tim has in my opinion lost its direction. You only have to read MacRumours to see how much space is given to computing and creativity which is what led the Mac to be rightly a cult through ease of operation and enhanced workrate by it. Perhaps its time to separate the computing from the glitz of the iPhone.

Interconnectivity is fine, but how many high end music producers, video producers or creators use their iPhone to do it? If they did, then it makes a mockery of Mac Pro as the criterion required for both is so different yet most of time we see 'improvements' that are designed to dull down performance at the higher end from iMacs upwards to make them more and more glitzy and pretty. All takes computing power, all increases coding in the operating system, all leaving more potential for bugs.
 
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jpn

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Feb 9, 2003
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"how many high end ... video producers or creators use their iPhone to do it?"
more and more are using the iPhone for those purposes, including commercial releases.

i think that all the evidence points to more and more, and, younger and younger people are using apple's newer tools to create amazingly rich and beautiful work.
these people prefer these lighter tools that are able to help them accomplish their work immediately within a multi-device, more mobile platform (iPad and iPhone, for. example)

with respectful apologies to anybody who grew up using clunky desktop, the more mobile platform that apple has offered, at staggeringly low cost, is the new addressable audience and market.

the new Mac Pro is a sleek and stunning device, but only needed by video (read Youtube) enthusiasts, and, industrial users with specific editing needs.

if we judge value by the sheer numbers of creators, the iPad and iPhone provided abilities are in fact apple living up to its destiny of the cross section between Humanities and Technology.

i think that iPad and iPhone are in fact paying for the new Mac Pro to have been developed and finally reach market.
 
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MikeyUnix

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Oct 10, 2019
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"how many high end ... video producers or creators use their iPhone to do it?"
more and more are using the iPhone for those purposes, including commercial releases.

i think that all the evidence points to more and more, and, younger and younger people are using apple's newer tools to create amazingly rich and beautiful work.
these people prefer these lighter tools that are able to help them accomplish their work immediately within a multi-device platform (iPad and iPhone, for. example)

with respectful apologies to anybody who grew up using clunky desktop, the more mobile platform that apple has offered, at staggeringly low cost, is the new addressable audience and market.

the new Mac Pro is a sleek device, but only needed by video (read Youtube) enthusiasts, and, industrial users with specific editing needs.

if we judge value by the sheer numbers of creators, the iPad and iPhone provided abilities are in fact apple living up to its destiny of the cross section between Humanities and Technology.

i think that iPad and iPhone are in fact paying for the new Mac Pro to have been developed and finally reach market.
A very sensible and coherent reply, which in some ways I agree with, hence separation of computing from iPhone rather than converging of Operating Systems in terms of functions and looks.

I agree with you too, that many young people are producing some wonderful stuff on iPhones, iPads etc., so I don't see a disagreement there, but an agreement. In fact somegovernments are rather concerned now because of the ability of these users to give accurate on the spot reporting.

But cross platform interchange of data should not necessarily mean the same glitz on the higher end machines which through overhead does mean underperformance.

Some music videos and music produced on iPhones and iPads have revolutionised the opportunity, and I don't knock that as if anything it only adds to my comments about Apple Computers.

A well though out reply to my first post though. Thank you
 
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macguru9999

macrumors 6502
Aug 9, 2006
447
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That was an emotional spiel with little substance .... The new mac pro CLEARLY has a a target userbase of video and music professionals that want to use final cut and logic on macos at a level of resolution or multiple tracks that demand a high end machine. (also premiere and resolve although there are alternative platforms.) These people want to run macos enough to buy a 10-30k mac pro and you should respect that. They have the skills to build a PC but their software choices make the mac pro a deal. Some of us may get a new mac pro for aesthetic reasons if we can afford it that is our choice. The release of this computer goes against the form over function trend so lets acknowledge that and the professionals that pay a premium to make their workflow a bit smoother.
 
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OkiRun

macrumors demi-god
Oct 25, 2019
983
579
Japan
"how many high end ... video producers or creators use their iPhone to do it?"
more and more are using the iPhone for those purposes, including commercial releases.

i think that all the evidence points to more and more, and, younger and younger people are using apple's newer tools to create amazingly rich and beautiful work.
these people prefer these lighter tools that are able to help them accomplish their work immediately within a multi-device platform (iPad and iPhone, for. example)

with respectful apologies to anybody who grew up using clunky desktop, the more mobile platform that apple has offered, at staggeringly low cost, is the new addressable audience and market.

the new Mac Pro is a sleek device, but only needed by video (read Youtube) enthusiasts, and, industrial users with specific editing needs.

if we judge value by the sheer numbers of creators, the iPad and iPhone provided abilities are in fact apple living up to its destiny of the cross section between Humanities and Technology.

i think that iPad and iPhone are in fact paying for the new Mac Pro to have been developed and finally reach market.
Agree ~
I've mentioned this before. There are two teenagers in my condo complex that have maxed out 16" MBPs. They film using their iPhones and upload to their Youtube Channels. There is also a 12-year old living in the complex who got to open one of his presents early. I saw him in the courtyard and went to talk to him. He was flying a new Mavic Mini Drone and controlling with his new iPad. I asked him was he a budding film maker and he looked at me incredulously. He said he was practicing to be a drone pilot for the military.
Ok.... didn't see that coming.
But it shows you how the young are using Apple Technology at the entry to mid-level.
The Mac Pro is definitely out of their league... but not for long. I personally think that the Mac Mini has a long way to morph into a portable unit for the young to migrate to over the new few years.
 
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MikeyUnix

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On a PC platform self build is the norm for high level.

For the record I would not leave the Mac platform as Apple through and through, but I am not that happy with the philosophy of Apple that has clearly changed towards glitz.
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Agree ~
I've mentioned this before. There are two teenagers in my condo complex that have maxed out 16" MBPs. They film using their iPhones and upload to their Youtube Channels. There is also a 12-year old living in the complex who got to open one of his presents early. I saw him in the courtyard and went to talk to him. He was flying a new Mavic Mini Drone and controlling with his new iPad. I asked him was he a budding film maker and he looked at me incredulously. He said he was practicing to be a drone pilot for the military.
Ok.... didn't see that coming.
But it shows you how the young are using Apple Technology at the entry to mid-level.
The Mac Pro is definitely out of their league... but not for long. I personally think that the Mac Mini has a long way to morph into a portable unit for the young to migrate to over the new few years.

With respect most of the posts are concurring with my view when referring to some of the work done on the iPhone and iPad? It is to be commended, but that does not equate to efficient use of processing power on a high end machine if it also has the built in glitz, wonderful array of emoji's etc., when you want the maximum power for rendering, medical image processing or other intensive work, where you don't really need the overhead of glitz.

Mac Pro was a workhorse, and the new one still is, but do we go out and look for gold horse shoes, plaited silver mane, with beautifully embroidered saddle cloth to get the best out of it or let alone increase the use of that platform as a work tool.
 
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jpn

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A very sensible and coherent reply, which in some ways I agree with, hence separation of computing from iPhone rather than converging of Operating Systems in terms of functions and looks.

I agree with you too, that many young people are producing some wonderful stuff on iPhones, iPads etc., so I don't see a disagreement there, but an agreement. In fact somegovernments are rather concerned now because of the ability of these users to give accurate on the spot reporting.

But cross platform interchange of data should not necessarily mean the same glitz on the higher end machines which through overhead does mean underperformance.

Some music videos and music produced on iPhones and iPads have revolutionised the opportunity, and I don't knock that as if anything it only adds to my comments about Apple Computers.

A well though out reply to my first post though. Thank you

thanks.
and i agree with a large part of your intended meaning:
why apple is not more actively engaged in releasing more and more powerful platforms for those ultra-power users/companies/industrial level is indeed sad.
its proving with this Mac Pro release that a USD 50,000 (plus USD 400 wheels it seems) it can charge whatever it wants right now.
it seems to me that by keeping the ultra level as attractive as possible it helps broaden the reach for more popular level devices.
surely it sees that.
yet it took way way too long to get this latest Mac Pro out.
 
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OkiRun

macrumors demi-god
Oct 25, 2019
983
579
Japan
On a PC platform self build is the norm for high level.

For the record I would not leave the Mac platform as Apple through and through, but I am not that happy with the philosophy of Apple that has clearly changed towards glitz.
[automerge]1576312660[/automerge]


With respect most of the posts are concurring with my view when referring to some of the work done on the iPhone and iPad? It is to be commended, but that does not equate to efficient use of processing power on a high end machine if it also has the built in glitz, wonderful array of emoji's etc., when you want the maximum power for rendering, medical image processing or other intensive work, where you don't really need the overhead of glitz.

Mac Pro was a workhorse, and the new one still is, but do we go out and look for gold horse shoes, plaited silver mane, with beautifully embroidered saddle cloth to get the best out of it or let alone increase the use of that platform as a work tool.
Yes.
Which is why I overpaid on the MSRP for the first edition Mazada Miata. By a lot.
It was underpowered and too light.
But I loved driving it.... felt good...looked good... handeled the way I wanted a car to handle...
~ Mac Pro
 
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MikeyUnix

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you can get it for $25k actually. so check again, and the price will drop considerably, but then you have to also remember this is a 56 core processor unlike the 28 core max. processor on the Mac Pro.

If you want to quibble you can buy a 28 core Xeon W Processor for under $3200 or pre order the 28 core xeon W-3275M Pro creator for around $9,000, still plenty of scope for a self build under $50k
 
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Plutonius

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2003
8,800
7,994
New Hampshire, USA
Apple is only a corporation whose main goal is shareholder profits.

Based on that criteria, Apple's direction is impressive.

The Mac Pro is only a tool and there are plenty of other non-Apple choices if it doesn't meet the person's need or if that person doesn't consider it worth the money.
 
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mikas

macrumors 6502a
Sep 14, 2017
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Finland
I have used Macs from the 80's all along. I have have loved using Mac's for the most of the times. I have bought many many Macs along the years, including a couple of "roadmacs". I don't consider 2019 Mac Pro worth the money at this time. At least not with this new Mac Pro pricing, I mean, it's not the specs or it's not anything about Threadrippers versus Xeons or so. It's the starting amount of money, and the price of configurations. RAM price for example is astronomical, and yes I know, as it always has been.

I'll be using my 2010 Mac Pro still. With a pumped Z440 aside it. Let us just see what happens.

I do not want to believe it's the sole purpose of Apple to please only stockholders. But of course, it is. And it's by law, probably. That's the purpose of a company.
 
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defjam

macrumors 6502a
Sep 15, 2019
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That was an emotional spiel with little substance .... The new mac pro CLEARLY has a a target userbase of video and music professionals that want to use final cut and logic on macos at a level of resolution or multiple tracks that demand a high end machine. (also premiere and resolve although there are alternative platforms.) These people want to run macos enough to buy a 10-30k mac pro and you should respect that. They have the skills to build a PC but their software choices make the mac pro a deal. Some of us may get a new mac pro for aesthetic reasons if we can afford it that is our choice. The release of this computer goes against the form over function trend so lets acknowledge that and the professionals that pay a premium to make their workflow a bit smoother.
Then what were they using before Tuesday? This is a serious question because the reviewers from the videos I watched were amazed at how fast the 2019 Mac Pro is. Yet prior to Tuesday they didn't have anything really high end. Which means they were making due with less than high end. Which implies their work really doesn't demand a high end system. Those whos work demands the 2019 Mac Pros level of performance had no choice but to look at alternative platforms.
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I still wish that I invested in Apple before the iPhone when the stock was $14.00 / share (before splits) :).
I invested somewhere around 2004 and everyone told me to sell (as I have already made a nice profit). I regret not having stuck to my guns and held on to it. Part of investing is knowing when to hold a stock.
 
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Plutonius

macrumors G3
Feb 22, 2003
8,800
7,994
New Hampshire, USA
I invested somewhere around 2004 and everyone told me to sell (as I have already made a nice profit). I regret not having stuck to my guns and held on to it. Part of investing is knowing when to hold a stock.

I also know people who did something similar and sold their Apple stock.

They made a small profit but regret selling it to this day.

Back then, I wanted to choose between Apple stock and AT&T stock.

I went with the AT&T stock (because of the dividends) and that is my biggest regret :(.

Because of my investing back then I can afford to get a Mac Pro now and probably will get one when my Mac Pro 5,1 dies.

It would still be the entry level one with a 1TB or a 2 TB drive unless the prices go down or refurbs are much cheaper :).
 
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||\||

macrumors 6502
Nov 21, 2019
387
647
A MacBook Pro will set you back around $1600, yet the WINTEL machines which I've emigrated from years ago, have comparative power machines for $400 with similar processing or better.

This isn’t really true. I was shopping for a notebook last year to replace my aging Thinkpad. Lenovo, Dell, and others make comparable machines. I found a difference in cost of just a couple or a few hundred dollars less. I ended up going with the MBP, because I keep my machines forever and the cost extra was negligible over the life of it. My Thinkpad lasted 11 years before I replaced it. Similarly, Macs last a very long time of well taken care of.

Comparing the $1600 Mac and the $400 Windows machine is a classic straw man tactic that people have used for decades. The truth is, those two machines are not actually the same. They can’t be.
 
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defjam

macrumors 6502a
Sep 15, 2019
795
733
I also know people who did something similar and sold their Apple stock.

They made a small profit but regret selling it to this day.

Back then, I had to choose between Apple stock and AT&T stock.

I went with the AT&T stock (because of the dividends) and that is my biggest regret :(.
Hindsight is 20-20 :)

Because of my investing back then I can afford to get a Mac Pro now and probably will get one when my Mac Pro 5,1 dies.

It would still be the entry level one with a 1TB or a 2 TB drive unless the prices go down or refurbs are much cheaper :).
Since the Mac Pro requires an Apple specific SSD I'd like to upgrade to the 1TB drive. However I really think Micro Center is going to have a sale on the base level Mac Pro (similar to what they did with the iMac Pro) thus, if they do, I'll have to settle for the 256GB version.
 
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retta283

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Jun 8, 2018
2,658
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you can get it for $25k actually. so check again, and the price will drop considerably, but then you have to also remember this is a 56 core processor unlike the 28 core max. processor on the Mac Pro.

If you want to quibble you can buy a 28 core Xeon W Processor for under $3200 or pre order the 28 core xeon W-3275M Pro creator for around $9,000, still plenty of scope for a self build under $50k
But you refuse to address that the 25k is for the processor alone, when at most you spend 10k on processor upgrade.

Not to mention that $50,000 isn't the base price.

Do I believe they should come out with a tower in the same price range as the old MP? Yes. But this is not a bad machine for its target, even if that is a small target.
 
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Macshroomer

macrumors 65816
Dec 6, 2009
1,260
676
The problem is expensive does not mean competitive.

The bottom line is that it's up to the person using the selected hardware to compete in their given market, not the hardware it self. The latter is just a tool and one really ought not to burden their perspective with the severely limited thinking of using a broad brush to paint a picture of who uses what machine for what purpose and to what end.

Time and time again when we see fully upgradable machines like the 5,1 and now 7,1 Mac Pro's we have people complaining about price when the reality is the informed user knows exactly what model to buy and where to go third party on much cheaper but still quality components to make the value proposition one that works on the balance sheet.

Furthermore, the available market share for a 7,1 compared to when the 5,1 came out is likely to be far less when one considers what has happened to the financial prospects of those given industries and that does not just mean photo / video / design but music as well.

This is a niche tool who's target market is very much niche and while the uptick in overall cost is certainly eyebrow raising, it is not entirely surprising.

Complaining about it does nothing at all and is quite frankly, self indulgent.
 
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defjam

macrumors 6502a
Sep 15, 2019
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This is a niche tool who's target market is very much niche and while the uptick in overall cost is certainly eyebrow raising, it is not entirely surprising.
If by niche you mean YouTube bloggers then yes, I guess it's a niche tool.
 
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