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Uninstalling software on the Mac is a nightmare!!!
- Thread starter chelsel
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That sound almost put me into cardiac arrest the first time I heard it (my speakers were on nearly full volume 😱).
Father Jack
macrumors 68020
Yes I realise that, perhaps I'm just too fussy, but I like all traces to be removed. The fact that there are quite a few programs like AppZapper and CleanApp available shows that there are quite a few like minded Mac users out there .. 😎
Killyp
macrumors 68040
OS X has no registry!!! No UNIX based OSes have a registry of any sort, that's all part of their advantage over Winfroze.
skinnylegs
macrumors 65816
I think it's safe to say that your point has already been thoroughly addressed but put me down as another App Zapper advocate. It's cheap and it works well.
ingenious
macrumors 68000
Yes, the point is there is no need... the other parts are just miniscule pieces of data. They don't need to be gotten rid of. In fact, by deleting the .app file, you are, in effect, uninstalling the application. The "pieces" left over can be thought of as the same as still having Word documents on your computer after uninstalling Word. They still relate to Word, but you no longer have the application itself.
OldCorpse
macrumors 68000
Wow. What a ton of misinformation on this thread. Typical, whenever the issue of app uninstalling gets raised with fanbois. They'll all tell you a bunch of uninformed and wrong info about how you "just drag the app to trash", and how files left behind don't hurt. It is of course total, 100% BS. It's a myth. It simply is not true. It gets repeated, but it's false.
First and foremost, there are many apps which you'd be crazy to drag to trash - you'll end up with endless problems, because they hook deeply into the system, and must have an uninstaller to get rid of. Example: the app 1passwd. Just try to drag to trash - you'll live to regret it. I did that once, and basically could not use any browser at all as a result. So, you have to use an uninstaller in that case - a clear cut example of where it is a LIE to say that in OS X all you have to do is drag to trash... NO YOU DON'T, you MUST use an uninstaller for a certain class of apps. That means, you have to rely on the diligence of the developer to include an uninstaller in that case... sorry, but I don't like to rely on that - I'd much prefer to have a universal uninstaller, thank you.
Second, it is simply WRONG to say that files left behind by an app after you drag it to trash will not hurt you. Actually very often - YES THEY WILL. For example, if you reinstall an app, say when a new version comes out, you'll often find that the new app gets stuck using the old pref file left behind by the other app, and that can give you endless problems. Very common issue indeed. Another catastrophic example that I experienced myself along with thousands of others: left over contextual menu plugin problems. When Stuffit 11.02 came out, people started having problems with finder crashing constantly. Every time you right clicked on anything, Finder would crash - it was a nightmare. People very quickly caught on that the constant crashes were happening after they installed Stuffit 11.02. So, many did what they've been always told by Apple fanbois, and dragged Stuffit to trash. Well, unfortunately that did nothing to cure the problem. Finder kept crashing. The problem was finally traced to a plugin file left behind in the library under Contextual Menu Items. You had to get rid of that plugin. Perfect example of a file left behind, which was destroying your ability to work under OS X - and it wasn't even a pref file.
There are many other such circumstances where you need to watch out for files left behind. Unfortunately, you cannot even just use spotlight to find them all, as some are under the app name, others under both app and developer names, others under altogether different names, and still others are hidden. And as a result, the uninstaller apps out there are mostly useless. However, the bottom line is that there is a crying need of an uninstaller for OS X - and it's a scandal that Apple doesn't provide one... and most certainly NEVER, EVER believe anyone who tells you "just drag it to trash" and "files left behind never hurt you". You can get lucky, and that can work for many apps - but it emphatically, positively IS NOT TRUE across the board. And speaking of AppDelete and the whole issue of unistaller apps, I wrote a long rant in my review of AppDelete on MacUpdate, which addresses this issue:
"Unfortunately, I must agree with the poster below.
This is a free app - and so it seems mean to criticize it. I'm not really attacking the developer who put in his time and effort for free - it's very generous of him, and I appreciate that.
However, my remarks are regarding the whole problem of uninstalling in OS X:
UNINSTALLATION UNDER OS X IS ***BROKEN***.
Even Windows is slightly better, because at least they provide an uninstaller - even if it doesn't quite do the job, and often won't uninstall 3rd party software. OS X does not come with squat as far as uninstallers go.
Often mac fanatics will tell you "drag to trash" and don't worry about tiny files left behind. Well, that's BS. You WILL have problems with what many apps leave behind, especially when you want to reinstall or install a new version of the app. And not all apps come with uninstallers.
I do a ton of installing/uninstalling when I'm trying out apps, and I do that very often. I desperately need a real uninstaller.
And I've tested a whole bunch of them, paid and free.
Not one of them works as advertised. Not even close. In fact, they are all pretty much 100% useless. The reason is that if I have to use spotlight and manual examination of the Libraries to look for files left behind, well, I may as well do that and skip using any of the worthless so-called uninstallers.
Some simply try to associate files with the app by name (which is what AppDelete does, I believe), and often miss files that are named after the app development company, not the app name itself.
The more ambitious ones, like CleanApp or Yank actually try to do the job for real: they journal the files during initial app installation, and that way they can try to remove each and every file which was installed originally.
Unfortunately, even CleanApp and Yank don't quite work (apart from additional problems of memory leaks and poor coding with these two). The problem starts when the app is actually launched or used for awhile. Many apps change files or leave markers once launched or used - and CleanApp and Yank don't keep up (unsurprisingly).
This is a very hard issue, not just practically, but even theoretically. Practically, you'd have to write something which goes deep into the guts of OS X and can use the journalling features of the file system and can follow the apps without undue performance or resource penalty (maybe easier under Leopard with ZFS?). That's very hard to do for an outside developer. Then there are purely theoretical problems - how do you define what you are going to remove? If the app modifies the files of another application, do you remove all traces of that too? It may not even be possible, once that is done.
Bottom line, I appreciate the level of difficulty here - which is maybe why Apple has not included an uninstaller. I don't know if we'll ever have a real uninstaller here. Unfortunately, what we have so far is truly without any worth (through no fault of the AppDelete developer)."
First and foremost, there are many apps which you'd be crazy to drag to trash - you'll end up with endless problems, because they hook deeply into the system, and must have an uninstaller to get rid of. Example: the app 1passwd. Just try to drag to trash - you'll live to regret it. I did that once, and basically could not use any browser at all as a result. So, you have to use an uninstaller in that case - a clear cut example of where it is a LIE to say that in OS X all you have to do is drag to trash... NO YOU DON'T, you MUST use an uninstaller for a certain class of apps. That means, you have to rely on the diligence of the developer to include an uninstaller in that case... sorry, but I don't like to rely on that - I'd much prefer to have a universal uninstaller, thank you.
Second, it is simply WRONG to say that files left behind by an app after you drag it to trash will not hurt you. Actually very often - YES THEY WILL. For example, if you reinstall an app, say when a new version comes out, you'll often find that the new app gets stuck using the old pref file left behind by the other app, and that can give you endless problems. Very common issue indeed. Another catastrophic example that I experienced myself along with thousands of others: left over contextual menu plugin problems. When Stuffit 11.02 came out, people started having problems with finder crashing constantly. Every time you right clicked on anything, Finder would crash - it was a nightmare. People very quickly caught on that the constant crashes were happening after they installed Stuffit 11.02. So, many did what they've been always told by Apple fanbois, and dragged Stuffit to trash. Well, unfortunately that did nothing to cure the problem. Finder kept crashing. The problem was finally traced to a plugin file left behind in the library under Contextual Menu Items. You had to get rid of that plugin. Perfect example of a file left behind, which was destroying your ability to work under OS X - and it wasn't even a pref file.
There are many other such circumstances where you need to watch out for files left behind. Unfortunately, you cannot even just use spotlight to find them all, as some are under the app name, others under both app and developer names, others under altogether different names, and still others are hidden. And as a result, the uninstaller apps out there are mostly useless. However, the bottom line is that there is a crying need of an uninstaller for OS X - and it's a scandal that Apple doesn't provide one... and most certainly NEVER, EVER believe anyone who tells you "just drag it to trash" and "files left behind never hurt you". You can get lucky, and that can work for many apps - but it emphatically, positively IS NOT TRUE across the board. And speaking of AppDelete and the whole issue of unistaller apps, I wrote a long rant in my review of AppDelete on MacUpdate, which addresses this issue:
"Unfortunately, I must agree with the poster below.
This is a free app - and so it seems mean to criticize it. I'm not really attacking the developer who put in his time and effort for free - it's very generous of him, and I appreciate that.
However, my remarks are regarding the whole problem of uninstalling in OS X:
UNINSTALLATION UNDER OS X IS ***BROKEN***.
Even Windows is slightly better, because at least they provide an uninstaller - even if it doesn't quite do the job, and often won't uninstall 3rd party software. OS X does not come with squat as far as uninstallers go.
Often mac fanatics will tell you "drag to trash" and don't worry about tiny files left behind. Well, that's BS. You WILL have problems with what many apps leave behind, especially when you want to reinstall or install a new version of the app. And not all apps come with uninstallers.
I do a ton of installing/uninstalling when I'm trying out apps, and I do that very often. I desperately need a real uninstaller.
And I've tested a whole bunch of them, paid and free.
Not one of them works as advertised. Not even close. In fact, they are all pretty much 100% useless. The reason is that if I have to use spotlight and manual examination of the Libraries to look for files left behind, well, I may as well do that and skip using any of the worthless so-called uninstallers.
Some simply try to associate files with the app by name (which is what AppDelete does, I believe), and often miss files that are named after the app development company, not the app name itself.
The more ambitious ones, like CleanApp or Yank actually try to do the job for real: they journal the files during initial app installation, and that way they can try to remove each and every file which was installed originally.
Unfortunately, even CleanApp and Yank don't quite work (apart from additional problems of memory leaks and poor coding with these two). The problem starts when the app is actually launched or used for awhile. Many apps change files or leave markers once launched or used - and CleanApp and Yank don't keep up (unsurprisingly).
This is a very hard issue, not just practically, but even theoretically. Practically, you'd have to write something which goes deep into the guts of OS X and can use the journalling features of the file system and can follow the apps without undue performance or resource penalty (maybe easier under Leopard with ZFS?). That's very hard to do for an outside developer. Then there are purely theoretical problems - how do you define what you are going to remove? If the app modifies the files of another application, do you remove all traces of that too? It may not even be possible, once that is done.
Bottom line, I appreciate the level of difficulty here - which is maybe why Apple has not included an uninstaller. I don't know if we'll ever have a real uninstaller here. Unfortunately, what we have so far is truly without any worth (through no fault of the AppDelete developer)."
dsnort
macrumors 68000
In my experience, Windows Add/Remove program isn't great either. It often leaves App related files strewn about the comp. AOL is especially pernicious.
The only way to really uninstall AOL is to format and reinstall Windows 😀
Because of how OSX stores things, it doesn't really matter if a small trace is left. There's no registry, just preference files. An abundance of those won't slow down the system like a messy registry can, since if you remove App X, but leave it's files around, the files will just sit there, not interfering with anything.
iMacBook
macrumors 6502a
mgguy
macrumors 6502
OldCorpse, thank you for taking the time to educate us about the problems in uninstalling applications. I have used uApp and thought it did what I needed it to do, but I guess I was wrong. It is clear from your post that adequate uninstallation is not as easy as so many of us have believed. You are performing a valuable service to Mac users for sharing your technical expertise on these subjects, and it is very much appreciated.
The silly part to me is that any package that uses OS X built-in installer leaves a receipt at /Library/Receipts/〈name of the package〉/Contents/Archive.bom you can read that receipt with the lsbom command;
lsbom /Library/Receipts/〈name of the package〉/Contents/Archive.bom
An uninstaller really just needs to read that and remove all files listed. I would like for leopard to include support for that.
lsbom /Library/Receipts/〈name of the package〉/Contents/Archive.bom
An uninstaller really just needs to read that and remove all files listed. I would like for leopard to include support for that.
XheartcoreboyX
macrumors 6502a
HAHAHAHAHA feature???? how is it a feature??
my computer>add or remove..>look for the app>press''uninstall''>press yes to the question if you are sure to delete the app>wait>press next>press next>press next ,ect..>press 'Restart computer>wait for 5 to 10 min>wait until long start up>ready to go.
wow i loved that feature XD
Download app zapper>drag and drop the app icon in the tiny window>press ''zap''>we are done!🙄
EVERYthing in OS X works just MUCH easier and needs less time than it would in windows. ''thats a big fact''
Father Jack
macrumors 68020
I unfortunately used windows for more years than i care to remember and had very little trouble with Windoze uninstaller. I realise that nothing is perfect, but something not quite perfect is to my mind better than nothing at all .. 😎
P.S. I wouldn't even consider using A.O.L.
clevin
macrumors G3
lol, what are you talking about? for example, by simply dragging garage band app to trash, you left more than 1G trash hidden somewhere on HDD, same goes for iDVD, etc.
I don't think you have a clear idea about how Unix app works...
yeah, after you pay for that extra 3rd party app. so called app zapper. ... (there is another free app I think, for OSX, but it would be nice if OS has it built-in)
erikistired
macrumors 6502
the problem with the windows add/remove utility lies mostly with the programs themselves than the utility. badly written scripts leave junk laying around, or error out for no particular reason, leaving half installs and junk in the registry.
as far as old corpse, i've never had a problem dragging an app to the trash, but i don't install any random app i run across on the internet. my time with windows taught me lots of lessons about carefully choosing what i install on my computer. it tends to bite you in the end if/when you decide to remove it later.
erikistired
macrumors 6502
it's not hidden, and i believe what's left behind are loops and effects that can be used in other programs, which could very well be why apple chose to store them separately.
there are usually free apps out there for most anything, but you get what you pay for. appzapper works very well, and imho it's worth the 12 bucks.
dejo
Moderator emeritus
OldCorpse, I think your complaints are more of an issue with poorly designed applications than with a weak uninstall approach in the OS.
Guess you didn't read the thread. I saw it mentioned in five other posts.
OldCorpse
macrumors 68000
That's clearly wrong. Whether an app is well or poorly designed, a good uninstall system will remove the app - regardless of how the app was coded. That's like saying "your complaints of poor security in Windows XP has more to do with bad hackers than poorly designed security approach in Windows". You should have good security regardless of whether there are nasty hackers out there.
That's the whole point of this discussion - OS X has NO uninstaller provided at all. And unistalling OS X apps is a nightmare - granted, a lot of the time, for MOST apps, you can indeed just drag to trash. However, that's absolutely not true for a ton of apps. We need an uninstaller - period. And the third party uninstaller apps out there are all flawed in various ways. Apple should step up to the plate and provide a GOOD unistaller - Windows provides one, but as often with Microsoft, it's quite poor... time for Apple to do the right thing the right way. I was very disappointed not to hear of an uninstaller included under Leopard.
dejo
Moderator emeritus
That's clearly your opinion. I think the complexities of how an app could be installed and hooked into an OS make it very hard for an universal uninstaller to effectively handle all situations. Therefore, if an app requires more than a simple drag-to-trash to uninstall without messing up your system, it should either be redesigned to be so or come with its own uninstaller. But that is just my opinion. Which is neither right nor wrong.
A ton? Really? Aren't you exaggerating now?
aloofman
macrumors 68020
Most of the time you can just trash the app, but not always. As others mentioned, the most common problem is if you install a different version of that app later, you can get weird conflicts sometimes with the old preference files. And if you do it a lot, the accumulation of them can take up a noticeable amount of disk space. But it is not nearly as big a problem as it is with Windows. Not even close.
Uninstalling applications under Mac OS X is in many cases not as simple as many people would have you believe. What is most annoying and even scary to me (and especially when I first switched) is that, while MOST applications can simply be dragged to the trash, SOME apps absolutely require their own uninstaller to be run, and it is often not clear which apps these are. Sometimes when you install an app it will also install an uninstaller; sometimes there is an uninstaller in the disk image for the app; and sometimes the original installer must be run again to do an uninstall. In other words, there is no standard way of doing things. What am I supposed to do, keep a note of every app that I install and write down whether there was an uninstaller listed? Should I try to rerun the installer to see if there is an uninstall option? Why can't there be some kind of standard?
