Unlocked AT&T 5S, can be used with Verizon?


terraphantm

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No, the CDMA band is not enabled on the AT&T 5S. And from what I understand, that prevents it from authenticating with the network at all (might change when Verizon starts selling LTE-only phones)
 

Winona Northdakota

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Dec 27, 2010
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Unlocked AT&T 5S, can be used with Verizon?

No, the CDMA band is not enabled on the AT&T 5S. And from what I understand, that prevents it from authenticating with the network at all (might change when Verizon starts selling LTE-only phones)

Only the iPhone 5s sold specifically for Verizon has an ESN and MEID that is whitelisted with Verizon's network, so when the phone is activated, the network will recognize it. All iPhones except for the original iPhone have CDMA. UMTS is CDMA (W-CDMA).
 

terraphantm

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Only the iPhone 5s sold specifically for Verizon has an ESN and MEID that is whitelisted with Verizon's network, so when the phone is activated, the network will recognize it. All iPhones except for the original iPhone have CDMA. UMTS is CDMA (W-CDMA).
WCDMA and CDMA2000 are distinct technologies. The only similarity is the air interface itself. The other associated technologies are different.

As I stated before, CDMA (aka CDMA2000) is disabled on earlier non VZW/Sprint iPhones
 

Winona Northdakota

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Unlocked AT&T 5S, can be used with Verizon?

WCDMA and CDMA2000 are distinct technologies. The only similarity is the air interface itself. The other associated technologies are different.

As I stated before, CDMA (aka CDMA2000) is disabled on earlier non VZW/Sprint iPhones

The iPhones prior to the iPhone 4 model (A1349) do not have Qualcomm radio chips compatible with CDMA 2000 networks. CDMA is a Qualcomm technology who owns the patents and licenses the technology. W-CDMA (UMTS) is a FRAND licensed version as en evolutionary technology to GPRS, and EDGE with GSM compatible networks. The iPhone 4S is certainly physically capable of being used on Verizon's CDMA 2000 network, The iPhone 4S not specifically bought for Verizon's network doesn't have an ESN that is whitelisted with Verizon's database. It can't be activated, because Verizon won't, not because the phone is gimped or disabled. There is one iPhone 4S model for the world.
 
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terraphantm

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The iPhones prior to the iPhone 4 model (A1349) do not have Qualcomm radio chips compatible with CDMA 2000 networks. CDMA is a Qualcomm technology who owns the patents and licenses the technology. W-CDMA (UMTS) is a FRAND licensed version as en evolutionary technology to GPRS, and EDGE with GSM compatible networks. The iPhone 4S is certainly physically capable of being used on Verizon's CDMA 2000 network, The iPhone 4S not specifically bought for Verizon's network doesn't have an ESN that is whitelisted with Verizon's database. It can't be activated, because Verizon won't, not because the phone is gimped or disabled. There is one iPhone 4S model for the world.
The CDMA bands are absolutely disabled on the non-CDMA iPhone 4S. This can be done at the hardware level without requiring distinct software versions. The non-CDMA iPhone 4S do not have ESNs or MEIDs at all. Same with the iPhone 5 and 5S.

Having a qualcomm baseband that's capable of it means nothing. The Verizon and Sprint iPhone 4 also had GSM capable qualcomm basebands, but the GSM part was completely disabled.
 

Winona Northdakota

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Unlocked AT&T 5S, can be used with Verizon?

The iPhone 4S is carrier agnostic world phone and has a radio capable of both CDMA and GSM with two antennas.

http://thenextweb.com/apple/2011/10/04/apples-new-iphone-has-two-antennas-and-both-gsm-and-cdma-a-world-phone/

http://www.wired.com/2011/10/apple-iphone-4s-specs/

http://www.apple.com/lae/iphone-4s/specs/

The CDMA 2000 radio portion is not disabled. Verizon won't activate an iPhone 4S not specifically purchased for use on Verizon, because of the way Verizon traditionally activates CDMA phones to their network.

Traditionally, with Verizon CDMA the phone hardware itself is tied to to the network to activate and the phone contains all subscriber info. With GSM networks, the SIM (Subscriber Information Module) card is activated not the phone.
 
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terraphantm

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The CDMA 2000 radio portion is not disabled.
You have no proof of this. There is evidence against that notion however. Every iOS device with CDMA enabled to date reports an MEID.

That Apple page even says "CDMA is available only if iPhone 4s is sold and activated for use on a CDMA network." Meaning that a 4S that is not sold for use on a CDMA network does not have CDMA available.
 

Winona Northdakota

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Dec 27, 2010
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Unlocked AT&T 5S, can be used with Verizon?

You have no proof of this. There is evidence against that notion however. Every iOS device with CDMA enabled to date reports an MEID.

That Apple page even says "CDMA is available only if iPhone 4s is sold and activated for use on a CDMA network." Meaning that a 4S that is not sold for use on a CDMA network does not have CDMA available.

Other than the links I provided with direct reference, photos, from the keynote for the iPhone 4S. You have no proof that the CDMA 2000 radio with the iPhone 4S is disabled, yet you keep claiming it is. The facts stand that Verizon traditionally doesn't activate compatible CDMA 2000 phones not in their whitelist database and the only way to get one is to buy one from Verizon that is whitelisted to their network.

Here's a quote from one of my linked articles from Phil Schiller:

“We’ve done something technically amazing. It can now intelligently switch between the antennas for even better call quality” said Apple’s Phil Schiller.
 
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Winona Northdakota

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Unlocked AT&T 5S, can be used with Verizon?

Also The AT&T 4S and any other GSM 4S models have the cdma radios disabled.

So even if verizon wanted to add the MEID to their database the phone still wouldn't connect to their cdma network.

Is CDMA 2000 on the iPhone 4S disabled? It has the radio and antenna enabled. It is a carrier agnostic phone.

http://www.wired.com/2011/10/apple-iphone-4s-specs/

"The iPhone 4S will also come with both GSM and CDMA antennas, which means you’ll be able to use the phone anywhere around the world."
 

Applejuiced

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At the iPhone hacks section.
Is CDMA 2000 on the iPhone 4S disabled? It has the radio and antenna enabled. It is a carrier agnostic phone.

http://www.wired.com/2011/10/apple-iphone-4s-specs/

"The iPhone 4S will also come with both GSM and CDMA antennas, which means you’ll be able to use the phone anywhere around the world."
The hardware is there but the particular radios are disabled on the gsm iphone 4S versions.
The verizon and sprint 4S models can use cdma in the US and GSM but only when outside the US to connect to other gsm carriers internationally.
 

Winona Northdakota

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Dec 27, 2010
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Unlocked AT&T 5S, can be used with Verizon?

The hardware is there but the particular radios are disabled on the gsm iphone 4S versions.

The verizon and sprint 4S models can use cdma in the US and GSM but only when outside the US to connect to other gsm carriers internationally.

You are correct, that the iPhone 4S bought for Verizon is SIM locked to not accept domestic GSM carrier SIMs. Verizon could also change policy and allow iPhone 4Ss to be used domestically with GSM carriers like they have with all successive iPhones. Verizon could also whitelist all newly manufactured iPhone 4Ss, 5s, 5Cs, 5Ss to their network like many are suggesting is the case with the iPhones 6 and 6+.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4922/apple-iphone-4s-includes-hspa-144-gsmcdma-dual-mode-diversity
 
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Applejuiced

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At the iPhone hacks section.
You are correct, that the iPhone 4S bought for Verizon is SIM locked to not accept domestic GSM carrier SIMs. Verizon could also change policy and allow iPhone 4Ss to be used domestically with GSM carriers like they have with all successive iPhones. Verizon could also whitelist all newly manufactured iPhone 4Ss, 5s, 5Cs, 5Ss to their network like many are suggesting is the case with the iPhones 6 and 6+.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4922/apple-iphone-4s-includes-hspa-144-gsmcdma-dual-mode-diversity
They will not change policy all of a sudden 4 years later for the iphone 4s cause they dont have to. The only reason all their LTE iphone devices are fully unlocked is because the FCC is making them do it due to an agreement to purchase spectrum from the government. They didn't all of a sudden have a change of heart and decided to have all their LTE iphones fully unlocked.
http://www.tuaw.com/2012/09/24/verizon-iphone-5-ships-unlocked-likely-thanks-to-fcc/
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/24/verizon-leaving-iphone-5-sim-slots-unlocked-as-required-by-fcc-network-access-regulations/
 

Winona Northdakota

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Dec 27, 2010
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Unlocked AT&T 5S, can be used with Verizon?

They will not change policy all of a sudden 4 years later for the iphone 4s cause they dont have to. The only reason all their LTE iphone devices are fully unlocked is because the FCC is making them do it due to an agreement to purchase spectrum from the government. They didn't all of a sudden have a change of heart and decided to have all their LTE iphones fully unlocked.
http://www.tuaw.com/2012/09/24/verizon-iphone-5-ships-unlocked-likely-thanks-to-fcc/
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/24/verizon-leaving-iphone-5-sim-slots-unlocked-as-required-by-fcc-network-access-regulations/

I am not debating this.

Of course, Verizon didn't just have a epiphany of kindness. I am just suggesting that Verizon can and could change their policy. I think they should, of course. I doubt Verizon ever will. I think Verizon has loved the money from the proprietary hardware sales game and will squeeze every last dime that they can get away with. I don't mean to pick on Verizon. All carriers are guilty. The iPhone 4S is a carrier agnostic device.
 
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terraphantm

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You are correct, that the iPhone 4S bought for Verizon is SIM locked to not accept domestic GSM carrier SIMs. Verizon could also change policy and allow iPhone 4Ss to be used domestically with GSM carriers like they have with all successive iPhones. Verizon could also whitelist all newly manufactured iPhone 4Ss, 5s, 5Cs, 5Ss to their network like many are suggesting is the case with the iPhones 6 and 6+.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/4922/apple-iphone-4s-includes-hspa-144-gsmcdma-dual-mode-diversity
Verizon could whitelist them, but they still wouldn't work simply because the radios aren't active. The antennae themselves are the same since they operate on more or less the same frequency range as other cellular networks. There are other CDMA carriers out there in the world who aren't as particular about certified devices. You still won't be able to use a GSM 4S, 5, 5C, or 5S on them.

The non VZW 6 and 6+ are not whitelisted. If you enter a non-Verizon/non-refurb IMEI, Verizon doesn't recognize the device. That doesn't prevent them from joining the network (assuming you have an activated SIM already).

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Other than the links I provided with direct reference, photos, from the keynote for the iPhone 4S. You have no proof that the CDMA 2000 radio with the iPhone 4S is disabled, yet you keep claiming it is. The facts stand that Verizon traditionally doesn't activate compatible CDMA 2000 phones not in their whitelist database and the only way to get one is to buy one from Verizon that is whitelisted to their network.

Here's a quote from one of my linked articles from Phil Schiller:

“We’ve done something technically amazing. It can now intelligently switch between the antennas for even better call quality” said Apple’s Phil Schiller.
Read "3" in the Apple link you posted. It specifically says CDMA is not available on any 4S that was not sold for a CDMA carrier.

Phil Schiller's quote has nothing to do with switching between CDMA and GSM. He is referring to the diversity antenna found on the 4S. The diversity antenna is how they solved antenna-gate. If the signal drops on one, it automatically switches to the other antenna.

If the phones were truly identical, then Apple wouldn't have maintained separate inventory of GSM and CDMA models at the genius bar, but they did.
 

Winona Northdakota

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Dec 27, 2010
580
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Unlocked AT&T 5S, can be used with Verizon?

If the phones were truly identical, then Apple wouldn't have maintained separate inventory of GSM and CDMA models at the genius bar, but they did.

Apple would have to maintain separate inventory to comply. You wouldn't be able to activate an AT&T network destination iPhone 4S, because it would not be whitelisted to Verizon's network. Only phones that have been pre-entered into Verizon's whitelist have been able to be activated on Verizon's network. The phone needs to be whitelisted first to get in the door, not after.

Regarding the Anand Tech article:

"Apple got up on stage today and announced the iPhone 4S, and alongside it confirmed that the smartphone will have a reworked cellular architecture complete with dual-mode HSPA+ and CDMA2000 compatibility, making it a world-phone device."
 
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terraphantm

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Apple would have to maintain separate inventory to comply. You wouldn't be able to activate an AT&T network destination iPhone 4S, because it would not be whitelisted to Verizon's network. Only phones that have been pre-entered into Verizon's whitelist have been able to be activated on Verizon's network. The phone needs to be whitelisted first to get in the door, not after.
Again, wrong. If your theory was correct, the Genius Bar would differentiate between Sprint and Verizon iPhone 4s and 4Ss (they don't). It's not a whitelist issue; the issue is the GSM phones do not have the CDMA part enabled.