Unlocked AT&T 5S, can be used with Verizon?

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by zzoomp09, Oct 4, 2014.

  1. zzoomp09 macrumors 6502

    zzoomp09

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    #1
    I have an unlocked AT&T 5S, can I use it with Verizon? Will their LTE work and CDMA won't?
     
  2. terraphantm macrumors 68040

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    #2
    No, the CDMA band is not enabled on the AT&T 5S. And from what I understand, that prevents it from authenticating with the network at all (might change when Verizon starts selling LTE-only phones)
     
  3. zzoomp09 thread starter macrumors 6502

    zzoomp09

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    #3
    Ok thanks. Good to know.
     
  4. Winona Northdakota macrumors 6502a

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    #4
    Unlocked AT&T 5S, can be used with Verizon?


    Only the iPhone 5s sold specifically for Verizon has an ESN and MEID that is whitelisted with Verizon's network, so when the phone is activated, the network will recognize it. All iPhones except for the original iPhone have CDMA. UMTS is CDMA (W-CDMA).
     
  5. terraphantm macrumors 68040

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    #5
    WCDMA and CDMA2000 are distinct technologies. The only similarity is the air interface itself. The other associated technologies are different.

    As I stated before, CDMA (aka CDMA2000) is disabled on earlier non VZW/Sprint iPhones
     
  6. Winona Northdakota, Oct 5, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2014

    Winona Northdakota macrumors 6502a

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    #6
    Unlocked AT&T 5S, can be used with Verizon?


    The iPhones prior to the iPhone 4 model (A1349) do not have Qualcomm radio chips compatible with CDMA 2000 networks. CDMA is a Qualcomm technology who owns the patents and licenses the technology. W-CDMA (UMTS) is a FRAND licensed version as en evolutionary technology to GPRS, and EDGE with GSM compatible networks. The iPhone 4S is certainly physically capable of being used on Verizon's CDMA 2000 network, The iPhone 4S not specifically bought for Verizon's network doesn't have an ESN that is whitelisted with Verizon's database. It can't be activated, because Verizon won't, not because the phone is gimped or disabled. There is one iPhone 4S model for the world.
     
  7. terraphantm macrumors 68040

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    #7
    The CDMA bands are absolutely disabled on the non-CDMA iPhone 4S. This can be done at the hardware level without requiring distinct software versions. The non-CDMA iPhone 4S do not have ESNs or MEIDs at all. Same with the iPhone 5 and 5S.

    Having a qualcomm baseband that's capable of it means nothing. The Verizon and Sprint iPhone 4 also had GSM capable qualcomm basebands, but the GSM part was completely disabled.
     
  8. Winona Northdakota, Oct 5, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 5, 2014

    Winona Northdakota macrumors 6502a

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    #8
    Unlocked AT&T 5S, can be used with Verizon?

    The iPhone 4S is carrier agnostic world phone and has a radio capable of both CDMA and GSM with two antennas.

    http://thenextweb.com/apple/2011/10...antennas-and-both-gsm-and-cdma-a-world-phone/

    http://www.wired.com/2011/10/apple-iphone-4s-specs/

    http://www.apple.com/lae/iphone-4s/specs/

    The CDMA 2000 radio portion is not disabled. Verizon won't activate an iPhone 4S not specifically purchased for use on Verizon, because of the way Verizon traditionally activates CDMA phones to their network.

    Traditionally, with Verizon CDMA the phone hardware itself is tied to to the network to activate and the phone contains all subscriber info. With GSM networks, the SIM (Subscriber Information Module) card is activated not the phone.
     
  9. terraphantm macrumors 68040

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    #9
    You have no proof of this. There is evidence against that notion however. Every iOS device with CDMA enabled to date reports an MEID.

    That Apple page even says "CDMA is available only if iPhone 4s is sold and activated for use on a CDMA network." Meaning that a 4S that is not sold for use on a CDMA network does not have CDMA available.
     
  10. sqykkhickinb macrumors newbie

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  11. Night Spring macrumors G5

    Night Spring

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    #11
    This is correct. Check out the firmware list here:
    http://m.iclarified.com/entry/index.php?enid=750

    There is only one model of 4s. But then for 5, 5s and 5c, they each have two models, GSM and GSM+CDMA. So the 4s was a world phone, but apple went back to two separate models for the 5 series... Why? This is making my head hurt...
     
  12. Winona Northdakota, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014

    Winona Northdakota macrumors 6502a

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    #12
    Unlocked AT&T 5S, can be used with Verizon?


    Other than the links I provided with direct reference, photos, from the keynote for the iPhone 4S. You have no proof that the CDMA 2000 radio with the iPhone 4S is disabled, yet you keep claiming it is. The facts stand that Verizon traditionally doesn't activate compatible CDMA 2000 phones not in their whitelist database and the only way to get one is to buy one from Verizon that is whitelisted to their network.

    Here's a quote from one of my linked articles from Phil Schiller:

    “We’ve done something technically amazing. It can now intelligently switch between the antennas for even better call quality” said Apple’s Phil Schiller.
     
  13. Applejuiced macrumors Westmere

    Applejuiced

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    #13
    It will not work with Verizon.
    Only gsm carriers.
     
  14. Winona Northdakota, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014

    Winona Northdakota macrumors 6502a

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    #14
    Unlocked AT&T 5S, can be used with Verizon?


    Exactly. Unless the iPhone 4S has an MEID white listed in Verizon's database it won't work on Verizon.
     
  15. Applejuiced macrumors Westmere

    Applejuiced

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    #15
    Also The AT&T 4S and any other GSM 4S models have the cdma radios disabled.
    So even if verizon wanted to add the MEID to their database the phone still wouldn't connect to their cdma network.
     
  16. Winona Northdakota macrumors 6502a

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    Unlocked AT&T 5S, can be used with Verizon?


    Is CDMA 2000 on the iPhone 4S disabled? It has the radio and antenna enabled. It is a carrier agnostic phone.

    http://www.wired.com/2011/10/apple-iphone-4s-specs/

    "The iPhone 4S will also come with both GSM and CDMA antennas, which means you’ll be able to use the phone anywhere around the world."
     
  17. Applejuiced macrumors Westmere

    Applejuiced

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    #17
    The hardware is there but the particular radios are disabled on the gsm iphone 4S versions.
    The verizon and sprint 4S models can use cdma in the US and GSM but only when outside the US to connect to other gsm carriers internationally.
     
  18. Winona Northdakota, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014

    Winona Northdakota macrumors 6502a

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    #18
    Unlocked AT&T 5S, can be used with Verizon?


    You are correct, that the iPhone 4S bought for Verizon is SIM locked to not accept domestic GSM carrier SIMs. Verizon could also change policy and allow iPhone 4Ss to be used domestically with GSM carriers like they have with all successive iPhones. Verizon could also whitelist all newly manufactured iPhone 4Ss, 5s, 5Cs, 5Ss to their network like many are suggesting is the case with the iPhones 6 and 6+.

    http://www.anandtech.com/show/4922/apple-iphone-4s-includes-hspa-144-gsmcdma-dual-mode-diversity
     
  19. Applejuiced macrumors Westmere

    Applejuiced

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    #19
    They will not change policy all of a sudden 4 years later for the iphone 4s cause they dont have to. The only reason all their LTE iphone devices are fully unlocked is because the FCC is making them do it due to an agreement to purchase spectrum from the government. They didn't all of a sudden have a change of heart and decided to have all their LTE iphones fully unlocked.
    http://www.tuaw.com/2012/09/24/verizon-iphone-5-ships-unlocked-likely-thanks-to-fcc/
    http://www.macrumors.com/2012/09/24...s-required-by-fcc-network-access-regulations/
     
  20. Winona Northdakota, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014

    Winona Northdakota macrumors 6502a

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    #20
    Unlocked AT&T 5S, can be used with Verizon?


    I am not debating this.

    Of course, Verizon didn't just have a epiphany of kindness. I am just suggesting that Verizon can and could change their policy. I think they should, of course. I doubt Verizon ever will. I think Verizon has loved the money from the proprietary hardware sales game and will squeeze every last dime that they can get away with. I don't mean to pick on Verizon. All carriers are guilty. The iPhone 4S is a carrier agnostic device.
     
  21. Applejuiced macrumors Westmere

    Applejuiced

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    True, I dont see them changing the 4S unlock policy at all.
    And its not like many care about a 3+ year old 3G device;)
     
  22. terraphantm macrumors 68040

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    #22
    Verizon could whitelist them, but they still wouldn't work simply because the radios aren't active. The antennae themselves are the same since they operate on more or less the same frequency range as other cellular networks. There are other CDMA carriers out there in the world who aren't as particular about certified devices. You still won't be able to use a GSM 4S, 5, 5C, or 5S on them.

    The non VZW 6 and 6+ are not whitelisted. If you enter a non-Verizon/non-refurb IMEI, Verizon doesn't recognize the device. That doesn't prevent them from joining the network (assuming you have an activated SIM already).

    ----------

    Read "3" in the Apple link you posted. It specifically says CDMA is not available on any 4S that was not sold for a CDMA carrier.

    Phil Schiller's quote has nothing to do with switching between CDMA and GSM. He is referring to the diversity antenna found on the 4S. The diversity antenna is how they solved antenna-gate. If the signal drops on one, it automatically switches to the other antenna.

    If the phones were truly identical, then Apple wouldn't have maintained separate inventory of GSM and CDMA models at the genius bar, but they did.
     
  23. Applejuiced macrumors Westmere

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  24. Winona Northdakota, Oct 11, 2014
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2014

    Winona Northdakota macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    Unlocked AT&T 5S, can be used with Verizon?


    Apple would have to maintain separate inventory to comply. You wouldn't be able to activate an AT&T network destination iPhone 4S, because it would not be whitelisted to Verizon's network. Only phones that have been pre-entered into Verizon's whitelist have been able to be activated on Verizon's network. The phone needs to be whitelisted first to get in the door, not after.

    Regarding the Anand Tech article:

    "Apple got up on stage today and announced the iPhone 4S, and alongside it confirmed that the smartphone will have a reworked cellular architecture complete with dual-mode HSPA+ and CDMA2000 compatibility, making it a world-phone device."
     
  25. terraphantm macrumors 68040

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    #25
    Again, wrong. If your theory was correct, the Genius Bar would differentiate between Sprint and Verizon iPhone 4s and 4Ss (they don't). It's not a whitelist issue; the issue is the GSM phones do not have the CDMA part enabled.
     

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