Upcoming 17" MacBook Pro: Lessons Learned?

[SWLinPHX]

...do you know if you want to buy it online or in store. Buying it online used to avoid tax but it looks like that has changed for my area? Also they include free shipping which is a given.

The "no tax" rule is no mystery. It's always been the same: If any company does business physically in your state, you pay taxes; if they don't you don't. Simple as that. I once had something from MacMall delivered to my place in L.A. and that was the only time I paid taxes cuz they have a store on Wilshire and a big one in Torrance. Also, Outpost.com used to be great (free overnight shipping and no tax!), but when they merged with Fry's Electronics that all stopped.

I'll buy from the nearby store. That way I can take classes, purchase Apple peripherals, etc. from a single location. Our daughter took a couple of classes there and was very happy with them. I've gone into the store and poked around, bought iPods for our kids and as gifts, etc. They've always been extremely efficient and helpful. Friends have had the same positive experience.

Since when do you have to buy from the local Apple retail store (or Apple at all) to take the classes or purchase from their local store down the road? You get the same guarantees and warranty from any authorized Apple reseller (with the possible exception of 10% education discount if you qualify with Apple vs. not paying tax with others).

Are all you guys actually paying the extra $200-300 or so in taxes even when you don't have to? If so, are you using the 10% education discount to counter it? I only go to the stores to look and feel and talk about them. I always order no tax, free shipping from an online reseller warehouse like MacMall, etc.

 

[Battlefield Fan]

The "no tax" rule is no mystery. It's always been the same: If any company does business physically in your state, you pay taxes; if they don't you don't. Simple as that. I once had something from MacMall delivered to my place in L.A. and that was the only time I paid taxes cuz they have a store on Wilshire and a big one in Torrance. Also, Outpost.com used to be great (free overnight shipping and no tax!), but when they merged with Fry's Electronics that all stopped.



Since when do you have to buy from the local Apple retail store (or Apple at all) to take the classes or purchase from their local store down the road? You get the same guarantees and warranty from any authorized Apple reseller (with the possible exception of 10% education discount if you qualify with Apple vs. not paying tax with others).

Are all you guys actually paying the extra $200-300 or so in taxes even when you don't have to? If so, are you using the 10% education discount to counter it? I only go to the stores to look and feel and talk about them. I always order no tax, free shipping from an online reseller warehouse like MacMall, etc.

my family has had bad experiences with ordering through a 3rd party. Yes there might be a discount at macmall but there is also the student discount. Plus apple has free shipping so its only the tax that is the difference. Anyways with the story. My dad had bought a mac pro from a music company called Sweetwater. It was a new machine and he asked them to upgrade the RAM and Hard drive. Well they shipped it to him and it worked fine for about 3 months. Then the computer wouldn't start properly or should I say not at all. He opened the case and saw the ram they added in was dusty and looked used. So he called up and got his money back. Point being is these 3rd party resellers will sometimes try to bs their client by adding in 2 year old ram and other items that have been used.

That's why I only buy directly from Apple and 3rd party companies such as corsair and seagate.

Also ps thats how the dells and hp's make there money. They tell their costomer that they are getting DDR2 ram but then they ship the ram running at 240mhz.(yes thats how hp screwed me over) They figure the average person doesnt know all of that glitz so they try to slide it by. Also my other personal favorite is when they only use realiable name brand parts when they have to. Like in my hp everything in it was some crap china made part besides the intel processor and westeren digital hd. Instead of using corsair or OCZ ram or a name brand mother board such as XFX or asus.

Thats why its best to just build your own pc. and now m done with my sugar rush rant.

 

[SWLinPHX]

my family has had bad experiences with ordering through a 3rd party. Yes there might be a discount at macmall but there is also the student discount. Plus apple has free shipping so its only the tax that is the difference.

MacMall/PCMall has free shipping and discounts, and even a government sales department, along with no tax in most states.

Anyways with the story. My dad had bought a mac pro from a music company called Sweetwater. It was a new machine and he asked them to upgrade the RAM and Hard drive. Well they shipped it to him and it worked fine for about 3 months. Then the computer wouldn't start properly or should I say not at all. He opened the case and saw the ram they added in was dusty and looked used. So he called up and got his money back. Point being is these 3rd party resellers will sometimes try to bs their client by adding in 2 year old ram and other items that have been used.

You are citing only one example from one reseller that isn't even a Mac specialist. Sweetwater is more of a musician's reseller (musicians overwhelmingly prefer Macs). If that was the case, one bad incident with Apple (as many have had) would mean you wouldn't buy from them again or they are not reliable either? Another problem with your example: You don't know anything about MacMall and the like. They order direct from Apple pre-configured already with the installed extra RAM & upgrades. The MBP I received came directly thru Apple. They are not "opened" by MacMall. Might be worth your time to take a moment to look at their site before lumping them in with random third-party resellers: There are numerous configurations the MacBooks, MacBook Pros, MacBook Airs, etc. each come in, with all the different combinations of upgraded hard drives, RAM and processor. Apple ships them that way to MacMall, and you order which you want. The brand new MBP comes in about 8 different pre-configured options (again, shipped that way from Apple). Of course, you also can choose the blow-outs on the previous models or 17", also with the discounts and freebies (something you usually can't do when ordering from Apple). I'm actually surprised Apple doesn't have more incentive to order from them rather than from a reseller, but if you are buying a Mac you basically are ordering from them indirectly anyway I guess.

Although there have been some instances in past times where you can purchase RAM and have them install separately (which I have done with my previous Macs with never an issue) you choose the RAM they install and pay for it, or you can even just buy the RAM you want and stick it in yourself. If you don't trust what Apple is shipping, I guess you can't trust MacMall either of course. The only difference is no tax and/or education discount, plus all the free printers, cases, adapters, shipping, discounts & rebates. As a customer of them for many years with many orders, I have had 100% success rate.

That's why I only buy directly from Apple and 3rd party companies such as corsair and seagate.

So then, you have done some study or have stats that show those companines are somehow infallible? My guess is not. Do you know anything about MacMall/PCMall or ordered from them? Looks like not. You really should be careful when just drawing conclusions out of thin air. I can understand if you say you'd think twice about ordering from Sweetwater again (although I did have good experience with them as well) but you are over-reaching to an extreme to make assumptions about every authorized reseller. Everything I said before is based on the differences in price and bonuses. No difference whatsoever in what you get, the warranty, who repairs it under AppleCare or if you can go to the Apple retail store whenever you want. In fact, you can go thru Apple or the reseller in the off-chance there's an issue with your machine, so you actually have more recourse options.

Also ps thats how the dells and hp's make there money. They tell their costomer that they are getting DDR2 ram but then they ship the ram running at 240mhz.(yes thats how hp screwed me over) They figure the average person doesnt know all of that glitz so they try to slide it by. Also my other personal favorite is when they only use realiable name brand parts when they have to. Like in my hp everything in it was some crap china made part besides the intel processor and westeren digital hd. Instead of using corsair or OCZ ram or a name brand mother board such as XFX or asus.

Thats why its best to just build your own pc. and now m done with my sugar rush rant.

Sounds like you are a PC convert but maybe that is what the problem is. Apple is the only one that makes and controls their computers. I am glad you can't build your own Frankenstein model from scratch, like with PC's. I won't argue it's a smart move switching from PC to Mac, so that is really irrelevant. There's no reason you can't or shouldn't pay more for tax if you want, but I guess I'm not as indifferent to cost as you to consider $200-300 in tax as "only the tax". I'd rather use that to upgrade the model I choose or on more peripherals, or just more in my wallet.

 

[Battlefield Fan]

wow you made a lot of assumptions. First off my family has ordered 3 computers from macmall.

Second off I have been using a mac since I was 3-4 years old playing reader rabbit games. I didn't even touch a pc until my dad bought me one in eighth grade because my high school uses them.

And no I am not saying companies such as Seagate have a 100% success rate but if you know anything about computers you would know the pc world would prefer to use parts from realible sources. When I built my pc over the summer I went to a place called micro center and every one of the employees told me seagate was by far a better pick than westeren digital. They said WD isn't bad but that they personally would go for seagate. So I checked online and I found out a lot of the same info that they told me in the store.(source #2) I then went to my dad and he said that apple used to only put in seagate drives.

Do you know anything about MacMall/PCMall or ordered from them? Looks like not. You really should be careful when just drawing conclusions out of thin air.

And don't treat me like a retard and stop bashing and acting like your the almighty.

And lastly the point of this thread is to help TDad make proper decisions on purchasing a 17" MacBook Pro. Let's stay on topic and stop the unnecessary ranting.

 

[SWLinPHX]

wow you made a lot of assumptions. First off my family has ordered 3 computers from macmall.

Second off I have been using a mac since I was 3-4 years old playing reader rabbit games. I didn't even touch a pc until my dad bought me one in eighth grade because my high school uses them.

And no I am not saying companies such as Seagate have a 100% success rate but if you know anything about computers you would know the pc world would prefer to use parts from realible sources. When I built my pc over the summer I went to a place called micro center and every one of the employees told me seagate was by far a better pick than westeren digital. They said WD isn't bad but that they personally would go for seagate.. So I checked online and I found out a lot of the same info that they told me in the store.(source #2) I then went to my dad and he said that apple used to only put in seagate drives.

Yes, all my drives are either Seagate or Maxtor and I have several: internal, external, USB, FireWire & SCSI. I never said anything against Seagate. I just said you cite some example from some other merchant (Sweetwater) then drew an off-the-mark conclusion and applied it toward MacMall. You never got the point of why pay more if you don't have to for the same thing. That's what my initial thread that you responded to said. It still holds true.

And lastly the point of this thread is to help TDad make proper decisions on purchasing a 17" MacBook Pro. Let's stay on topic and stop the unnecessary ranting.

Yes, our goal is to help, not give wrong information. Again, if you know about MacMall you wouldn't have gone into the whole thing about using old RAM, etc. You can re-read what I wrote several times. They come from MacMall exactly as they come from Apple. Apple ships many different configurations and combinations. So your point made no sense. Again, you get the discounts & freebies & free shipping and no tax, for the same thing. I wanted to clear things up for the original poster about that misleading information. And then the stuff about having to buy at the local Apple Store so you can use their classes, etc??? I mean, c'mon. Anyway, it doesn't bother me if you (or anyone) pays more for the same thing as long as they do so knowingly ....I just wanted to clear up the facts first.

 

[Battlefield Fan]

I just said you cite some example from some other merchant (Sweetwater) then drew an off-the-mark conclusion and applied it toward MacMall. You never got the point of why pay more if you don't have to for the same thing. That's what my initial thread that you responded to said. It still holds true.

First off I never said anything about macmall besides the fact that you can't get the student discount. I gave the experience with Sweetwater as an example but you assumed I was bashing all 3rd party suppliers.

Seriously please stop making assumptions. Go ahead and share your wonderful experiences that you had with macmall.

Yes, our goal is to help, not give wrong information. Again, if you know about MacMall you wouldn't have gone into the whole thing about using old RAM, etc.

I never gave out any wrong information. As stated clearly in this post and this post you made assumptions. I said Sweetwater used faulty and old ram. Not macmall.

"I just wanted to clear up the facts first."

 

[jjahshik32]

Just go out and get a new 15" unibody mbp. You are missing out!

 

[SWLinPHX]

I never gave out any wrong information. As stated clearly in this post and this post you made assumptions. I said Sweetwater used faulty and old ram. Not macmall.

Okay, then maybe to me it seems strange (still does) that right after I post a message directed toward not just you but also the original poster to clear up a few things, you immediately responded, directly quoting me (scroll up) when I said how you can get everything the same and even a better deal and no tax from MacMall, by saying "I don't trust third-party resellers" and why not to order from them. That was a direct rebuttal. You say it had nothing to do with MacMall yet you quote me right after I wrote the advantages of MacMall? No one could draw anything but that conclusion under those conditions.

Anyway, I won't let the point be lost because of this childish dialogue: You can get every advantage (and then some) you get from Apple from a place like MacMall, pay less without tax and get extra freebies along with no shipping. So why not address my original post, which was why wouldn't you buy from a place like them and choose to pay the extra $200-300 in tax when you don't have to? That was what I asked all along and got no answer, just a rebuttal from you. Would've been nice to get an answer to that question. Maybe we can stop this now and get back on topic?

 

[Marci]

You can get every advantage (and then some) you get from Apple from a place like MacMall, pay less without tax and get extra freebies along with no shipping. So why not address my original post, which was why wouldn't you buy from a place like them and choose to pay the extra $200-300 in tax when you don't have to? That was what I asked all along and got no answer,

A couple of reasons - First of all, you are required to pay sales tax on your purchases whether or not the store collects it from you.
Secondly, when you purchase from one of these internet stores like MacMall, you get what is on their shelves, it is is just as likely as not that you are not going to be getting the lastest refresh.

You CAN get a discounted price on your purchases from the Apple Store if you are a NAPP member. And the Apple Store also gives you some freebies at times as well.

Hope that addresses your question.

 

[Battlefield Fan]

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/MacMall

http://www.mrrebates.com/store_ratings/view_store_ratings.asp?merchant_id=1276

These are both prominent websites that allows buyers to rate their experience with a reseller.

The first website has macmall rated at 3.03 out of 10. The average rating for stores on the site is a 8.01.

The second link rated it a little over 6 out of 10. Meaning marginally average.

Your voice is just one. These sites speak 128 voices.

Enough and I won't discuss this any further.

 

[iMacmatician]

The update to wait for (again, IMO) is Nehalem which should be late 09 early 2010. I know we can wait and wait and wait, but, the logic is actually very sound on this particular update. The nehalem update will be leaps and bounds better than what is now available, not just a modest bump like the unibody is.

Mobile Nehalem's not going to be the really big speed increase everybody seems to think. It's advantages over Core 2 are cut down compared to high-end desktop and server Nehalems, for example, there's no QuickPath. So while it'll be significant, I don't expect it to be that much more than Core -> Core 2.

In fact, I think the dual-core to quad-core jump is going to be bigger, and that could happen either early next year, with Nehalem, or with Westmere, depending on Apple and Intel.

 

[SWLinPHX]

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/MacMall

http://www.mrrebates.com/store_ratings/view_store_ratings.asp?merchant_id=1276

These are both prominent websites that allows buyers to rate their experience with a reseller.

The first website has macmall rated at 3.03 out of 10. The average rating for stores on the site is a 8.01.

The second link rated it a little over 6 out of 10. Meaning marginally average.

Your voice is just one. These sites speak 128 voices.

Enough and I won't discuss this any further.

LOL, I see you continue this issue. ...Ooookay then. I will forget my consistent stream of excellent experience over many years with MacMall, including several this year alone, now that I hear about this second-hand rating you are getting from some site, which isn't even from your own personal experience. And of course, we all know people's ratings on the Internet are always accurate. Just like when one poster here says Apple's customer service is excellent and the next say they are unreasonable and don't care about the customer and will never buy from them again. A couple more examples to back up my point. Reviews often mislead people online more often than they help, since displeased customers (which everyone has, even Apple) will vent online. Just reading these MacRumors forums one would think the new MacBook Pro's were lemons if they were a prospective buyer. But here's ratings on MacMall too that state the opposite:

http://www.bizrate.com/ratings_guide/cust_reviews__mid--29286.html

http://www.shop.com/0-85354-catalog_feedback_done.shtml

I guess basically every reseller (including Apple) is untrustworthy, as long as they have ever gotten a bad rating? Every large company like Apple, MacMall, Amazon, etc. is going to have a lot of complaints just by the nature of the odds, even if they turn out to be a fraction of a percentage of their customers (the ones who post online). Do you think every satisfied customer posts on forums or ratings to say how satisfied they are when they have no issues, or even how happy they are? If there are 3 out of 1000 with complaints, it is going to be those 3 who go to complaint sites about any business, or even the BBB. Stick by everything I said as firsthand knowledge. So far, you haven't provided A) any firsthand experience you have had with MacMall or B) anything that even remotely suggests what I have said is wrong, so really there's no point. Every resller or company in general has complaints on the Web. I concede that of course. Except that wasn't my point. In comparison, there is no difference really except paying more (and I guess that you have to be willing to wait for your rebate). As a matter of fact I forgot to mention: MacMall gave me 6 months no payments and no interest, as long as I pay it all by June 2009, even if I don't pay a penny before that date (which I will of course, I just didn't want to have to pay it all immediately for a huge purchase at a rocky time with the economy) Okay, anyway, I hope you can lay this to rest finally.

A couple of reasons - First of all, you are required to pay sales tax on your purchases whether or not the store collects it from you.

You are??? Could you elaborate please? Since the one I bought was actually about $50 less than Apple was selling it for (and another $100 with MacMall's rebate) and since I paid not a cent more for tax or shipping, where is this invisible tax you are speaking of? I would be interested to learn more.

Secondly, when you purchase from one of these internet stores like MacMall, you get what is on their shelves, it is is just as likely as not that you are not going to be getting the lastest refresh.

So the reason is you may not have every single update when your computer ships, meaning you may have to use Software Update for 5-10 minutes when you get it? In that case, why not just throw out your computer whenever there's an update, if it justifies paying $200-300 in taxes because there may be an update after you buy it. You get it exactly how the new ones ship from Apple (as in from Apple to your house, to a retail store, to MacMall, to anywhere). When a computer is announced on Oct. 14 and I order mine Nov. 6, I guess I will take my chances that it's "old", LOL. I mean, it could be up to 2 or 3 weeks even! The last computer I ordered from them showed it was made the month before I bought it. And I'm sure none of you shop at retail stores, because many items there are on the shelves for weeks and weeks on end. They are on the shelf at MacMall as long as it takes the manufacturer to ship them, just like to any retail store, including the Apple retail stores. Actually, one advantage is you can get the immediately discontinued line at a blowout price when the new ones are announced, yet Apple rarely continues to sell any discontinued line once they announce a new line. Of course, MacMall has a dozen or so configurations of the same computer shipped that way from Apple, to accommodate all but the most unusual BTO orders.

I never had any interest on debating different resellers or defend MacMall. My only point is that you can get the same thing (unless wanting some extremely, unusual built-to-order configuration) for less and more freebies, and even the "no tax" on a big ticket item is a huge deal, it's like saying "do you want this same item for Price A or for Price A +$300? I guess the ultimate answer to my question of why spend more for the same thing is that this is America and it is everyone's right to overpay if they wish.

 

[THX1139]

LOL, I see you continue this issue. ...Ooookay then...

Wow, you guys have a lot of free time on your hands that you want to waste arguing with strangers. LOL!

I'll give you some good advice. Turn off your computers and go out side for a walk. The fresh air will do you good and put everything back into perspective.

Peace.

 

[SWLinPHX]

Wow, you guys have a lot of free time on your hands that you want to waste arguing with strangers. LOL!

I'll give you some good advice. Turn off your computers and go out side for a walk. The fresh air will do you good and put everything back into perspective.

Peace.

LOL, you sir, are correct! I just wanted the OP to know that there were some other favorable options before he made up his mind, because I just went thru a big purchase a couple weeks ago (still receiving a few last things).This thread is after all supposed to be about the upcoming 17", which I did not buy, but I find it interesting about what everyone has said about the reason Apple did not upgrade it in October with the rest as well as the graphics issue; we'll have to see what happens in January.

And the weather here couldn't be better today. Sunny, balmy, slight cool breeze and in the 70s all day. A lot of people at the pool here!

 

[TDad]

LOL, you sir, are correct! I just wanted the OP to know that there were some other favorable options before he made up his mind, because I just went thru a big purchase a couple weeks ago (still receiving a few last things).This thread is after all supposed to be about the upcoming 17", which I did not buy, but I find it interesting about what everyone has said about the reason Apple did not upgrade it in October with the rest as well as the graphics issue; we'll have to see what happens in January.

And the weather here couldn't be better today. Sunny, balmy, slight cool breeze and in the 70s all day. A lot of people at the pool here!

The OP (me) appreciates all of the information and different perspectives. Apple customers are certainly passionate about the company's solutions, which is one of the things that attracted me to Apple in the first place.