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Re: Re: Comparisons?

Originally posted by Waluigi
No matter how fast intel makes their processors, they still will run windows, which completely cripples their ability to be useful.
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Yeah, everytime Intel increases their clock rate, the only think I can think is: "Well, they've just reduced their MTBF"...

Intel must have been so happy when Linux started getting traction and people saw that the CPU itself could actually run for a week straight...
 
hot

Oh boy! I can buy myself one of these babies to stay warm this winter...*

Man! If Intel wants to make good processors, it shouldn't keep pumping up the instruction sets and frequency. Maybe it ought to invest some money in a better tech, like RISC?

I'd like to see them go up to 4 GHz. PCs bursting to flames would be humorous.

*edited because author can't keep seasons straight
 
Originally posted by nickmcghie
I just read this article over at osnews.com comparing the x86 and PowerPC architectures. It was a very enlightening read and explained how Intel is really running themselves into the wall with their continuing development of the P4.

On particularly interesting note was about heat. x86 CPUs already get hot and require considerable cooling, but this is getting worse and eventually it will hit a wall. A report by the publishers of Microprocessor Report indicated that Intel is expected to start hitting the heat wall in 2004. The article goes on to predict that the x86 will soon lose it's price advantage because the cooling systems required to keep these beasts from literally melting cost several times what the CPUs themselves cost.

Long live RISC!! 😀
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I agree on all counts. That was a gem of an article for the reasons you noted above. Also, it was a perfect response to that article we heard about a few days ago. I can't remember the site, but the guy bashed Apple's benchmarks for using an "unheard of" compiler--GCC.

Whereas I am sure Apple wasn't daddy's perfect angel, so to speak, it did show that other companies do a lot worse. If the author of the osnews article is knowledgeable, as he seems to be (he uses technical explanations instead of rhetoric), then benchmarks from other companies are far more flawed. Whereas GCC wasn't optimized for either Intel or IBM processors, the compilers Dell used (ICC was it?) took specific advantage of Intel's features.
 
Re: Prescott called Pentium 5?

Originally posted by Waluigi
With Apple, and AMD releasing new processors generations, does anyone think they will call prescott the Pentium 5? Any thoughts?

--Waluigi
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Because they're not very smart. 😉 They should at least call it the P 4.1 or something stupid. Or better yet, call it the P4 Extreme!!! Or P4 Xtreme!!! Or even better: call it the P4 Xtreme Avalanche, like my deodorant. Yes, there's nothing like the scent of an Xtreme Avalanche to make you smell........fresh(?), because as we all know, avalanches, especially the "Xtreme" ones, always smell fantastic!! 😀

"I am so smart. I am so smart. S..M...E...R...T"

And Bertagert is right. I was.....um.....going to say the exact same thing. 😉
 
THIS ISN'T A RUMOR!

Sheesh people, this has been out for rather long.

See, PC people have a "roadmap". They don't have to blindly speculate about when the best time to buy a computer is. With Apple, sometimes products drop nearly 50% in price in one day.
 
Apple will never catch up in GHz, worse yet....

Apple will never catch up in GHz, worse yet, they are in their new arrogant attitude driving away the major software developers that once stuck by the platform when the '90s dark days nearly claimed the platform.

There is NO chance there will be any G5 faster than 2GHz by year end and Jobs knows it. The Media certainly knows and is chiding Apple already. Now the press is making hey with the MS and Adobe Mac defections.

Their additionally RUDE behavior in statements, such as with the announcement of no Mac Premier "With the announcement of the new Power Mac G5 and the innovations in Final Cut Pro 4, there has never been a better time for Premiere customers to make the switch.", only show the companies (and I'm assuming Steve Jobs) insulant juvenile behavior.

At less than 2.6% market share, and no sign of a turn around, Apple needs to stop being a (software/OS) monopolistic smart ass. Otherwise, we'll all be using Windoze PC's whether we like it or not. 😡
 
Re: Prescott called Pentium 5?

Originally posted by Waluigi
With Apple, and AMD releasing new processors generations, does anyone think they will call prescott the Pentium 5? Any thoughts?

--Waluigi
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They aren't really going to call it "the Prescott" are they?

"G5" (with its 9 fans) sounds cooler. 😉

Squire
 
Re: Re: Prescott called Pentium 5?

Originally posted by Squire
They aren't really going to call it "the Prescott" are they?

"G5" (with its 9 fans) sounds cooler. 😉

Squire
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I was trying to ask this: Is the new intel chip code named 'prescott' going to be the last pentium 4, or is intel going to go ahead with the name change, and make it the first pentium 5?
 
Re: Apple will never catch up in GHz, worse yet....

Originally posted by websterphreaky
Apple will never catch up in GHz, worse yet, they are in their new arrogant attitude driving away the major software developers that once stuck by the platform when the '90s dark days nearly claimed the platform.

Jobs is already learnig to lie in public statements, apparently from the supreme liar, Al Gore. There is NO chance there will be any G5 faster than 2GHz by year end and Jobs knows it. The Media certainly knows and is chiding Apple already. Now the press is making hey with the MS and Adobe Mac defections.

Their additionally RUDE behavior in statements, such as with the announcement of no Mac Premier "With the announcement of the new Power Mac G5 and the innovations in Final Cut Pro 4, there has never been a better time for Premiere customers to make the switch.", only show the companies (and I'm assuming Steve Jobs) insulant juvenile behavior.

At less than 2.6% market share, and no sign of a turn around, Apple needs to stop being a (software/OS) monopolistic smart ass. Otherwise, we'll all be using Windoze PC's whether we like it or not. 😡
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Man, who licked the red off your candy?
 
Re: Re: Comparisons?

Originally posted by Waluigi
Hahahaha! I couldn't have put it better. No matter how fast intel makes their processors, they still will run windows, which completely cripples their ability to be useful.

--Waluigi
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Well, that's not entirely true. It is still very much up to the user. There is Linux and FreeBSD. You can install Darwin on your Intel-based PC and get the guts of OS X right on your 3.6 GHz P5. 🙂 That would make for some interesting benchmarks.
 
Originally posted by scem0
If apple needs to work on one thing it would be price. It is pretty hard to justify spending $3,000+ on any computer (for most people).
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I think the iMac line is meant for people without $3k + a display.

I'm glad the WWDC keynote compared the G5 to a Dell box that could be priced. Don't forget the benchmarks are against a Dual Xeon, which ain't "cheap Intel hardware" like we're used to comparing against...
 
no you silly guys... they arent going to call it the pentium 5... its codename will be prescott (just like northwood, etc.)

it will be known as the "D" Revision of the Pentium 4

A - 400Mhz Bus
B - 533Mhz Bus
C - 800Mhz Bus
D - not sure on spec but I know its double the cache of the c and is 90nm

oh and anyone who keeps saying that intel chips run hot should actually use one. I have two dp 1.42, an athlon xp 2100+ and a 1700+ and a 3.0 p4 c...

the g4 and the athlon are probably tied for "hotness" at around 55 deg C at max load (using a thermaltake heat probe at cpu core.

the p4 runs load at about 38 with a nice quiet zalman fan. thats why its my home theater system.
 
750GX should match up well against Pentium M-Celeron

The Pentium M-Celeron will be at 1.3 GHz in January and it will have a 400 MHz bus, along with 512 KB of L2 cache. IBM's 750GX wil be produced in December and it will top out at 1.1 GHz, with a 200 MHz bus and 1 MB of L2 cache. It seems the 750 GX would stack up very well against the Pentium M-Celeron in the first quarter of 2004. In the second quarter of 2004, the Celeron performance will start to pull away from the 750GX, but IBM should have the next version of the 750 processor ready a few after that. So, it looks like the 750XX processors could be Apple's answer to the low cost Celeron chips for notebooks.
 
Originally posted by shawnjackson
no you silly guys... they arent going to call it the pentium 5... its codename will be prescott (just like northwood, etc.)

it will be known as the "D" Revision of the Pentium 4

A - 400Mhz Bus
B - 533Mhz Bus
C - 800Mhz Bus
D - not sure on spec but I know its double the cache of the c and is 90nm

oh and anyone who keeps saying that intel chips run hot should actually use one. I have two dp 1.42, an athlon xp 2100+ and a 1700+ and a 3.0 p4 c...

the g4 and the athlon are probably tied for "hotness" at around 55 deg C at max load (using a thermaltake heat probe at cpu core.

the p4 runs load at about 38 with a nice quiet zalman fan. thats why its my home theater system.
Click to expand...

so what do you do for a living, cause i'd really like to have that much money where i can afford all those computers... any tips?
 
oh, and they're not going to name it pentium 5, cause pentium already means 5. And it would be a little redundant calling a processor 5 5. The pentium name came about when the courts would not allow intel to copyright the numbers 386...486... etc. So they have to do some thinking. I believe they'll keep with the pentium 4 moniker; however, it wouldn't be a smart idea, cause the name's been out for almost 3 years.
 
The question isn't whether Apple can "win" with the G5 and OS X, the real issue is will Apple become a respectable second to WINTEL. The G5 is a nice processor and OS X is arguably the best OS, but even Steve Jobs has admitted that the "OS wars are over and Microsoft has won" (that's a near direct quote from Mr. Jobs, made a few years ago).

As far as the 3.0GHz G5, I believe that the statement was that they (Apple and IBM) had made a commitment to be at 3GHz in another 12 months. Whether that 12 months started at WWDC or when the first G5 actually ships is probably uncertain. Thus, it may not be until next September that we actually have a 3GHz PowerMac G5.

The truth, as I see it, is that a __single__ 2.0GHz G5 is roughly comparable to a 3.0GHz Pentium IV. The single Pentium will have advantages in integer operations, but in floating point and SIMD operations the G5 will be fairly close. Thus, I don't think there is any question that for many tasks (but certainly not all) a dual G5 will outperform any available Pentium IV system. However, Apple needs to ship the G5s in quantity before the end of September. If they miss their end of August or early September target dates and/or if there are serious problems with the new G5 PowerMacs then things could look pretty bad for the remainder of the year.

Also, remember that this is the year of the notebook computer (Mr. Jobs said it and it's true -- PC notebook sales during last quarter have surpassed desktops). Thus, there is a further problem ahead for Apple since the Pentium M and Intel's Centrino products have pretty much closed the quality-of-experience gap that once existed between PowerBooks and PC notebook computers. It could even be argued that the Pentium M has taken the lead from Apple. So, now that the G5 has more-or-less leveled the playing field on the desktop Apple needs to be working very, very hard to bring better performance to their entire line of notebook computers. If they aren't able to do that soon, then I believe that Apple might begin to see some very serious erosion in notebook market share. It may be too late and unreasonable to expect an improved G4 from Motorola (for notebooks), so it may be a long and "slow" ride until PowerBooks based upon the G5 bring something new to Apple's notebook line. Long because I really don't expect to see G5-based PowerBooks until January 2004 (earliest?).

So, is Apple's "glass" half empty or half full? Right now I think it's pretty uncertain. It's going to be an interesting race, but there is no question that Apple will need to be working double-time in order to keep up with WINTEL.
 
mgargan1:

Pentium does not mean five, its a made up word that suggests "five" as well as a metal. (And other stuff, I'm sure.)

shawnjackson:

The chip starts at a 800mhz FSB but will go higher, I expect within 6 months of launch. I don't think they'll be scaling as fast as the G5's FSB does, but they should stay pretty compeditive.
 
Originally posted by shawnjackson
no you silly guys... they arent going to call it the pentium 5... its codename will be prescott (just like northwood, etc.)

it will be known as the "D" Revision of the Pentium 4

A - 400Mhz Bus
B - 533Mhz Bus
C - 800Mhz Bus
D - not sure on spec but I know its double the cache of the c and is 90nm
Click to expand...

It should have a 800MHz bus since it's much more difficult to change the bus speed on a Pentium processor than it is for the 970 (G5).

oh and anyone who keeps saying that intel chips run hot should actually use one.
Click to expand...

Maybe the correct way of putting it should be burns up to twice as much watts as a G5 and higher still than a G4.

the g4 and the athlon are probably tied for "hotness" at around 55 deg C at max load (using a thermaltake heat probe at cpu core.
Click to expand...

That's pretty good since the Athlon burn up to 75% more watts than a G4. Motorola lists the average power use of a topend G4 processor at about 35 watts. A topend Athlon processor averages 62 watts.

This month the G4 is expected to move over to the same process size that the Athlon is made on and the topend frequencies of the two chip designs should be more closely matched, yet the Athlon should still have at least 75% higher average power use than the G4.

the p4 runs load at about 38 with a nice quiet zalman fan. thats why its my home theater system.
Click to expand...

It's good to know that it has a great cooling system, it really needs it. Did you notice that the G5 also has a very quiet cooling system?
 
Re: Apple will never catch up in GHz, worse yet....

Originally posted by websterphreaky
Apple will never catch up in GHz, worse yet, they are in their new arrogant attitude driving away the major software developers that once stuck by the platform when the '90s dark days nearly claimed the platform.

...Their additionally RUDE behavior in statements, such as with the announcement of no Mac Premier "With the announcement of the new Power Mac G5 and the innovations in Final Cut Pro 4, there has never been a better time for Premiere customers to make the switch.", only show the companies (and I'm assuming Steve Jobs) insulant juvenile behavior.

At less than 2.6% market share, and no sign of a turn around, Apple needs to stop being a (software/OS) monopolistic smart ass....
Click to expand...

Agreed, agreed, and agreed. 🙂 Apple better treat other companies nicer. They're sounding a bit arrogant. I have thought this for a while now.


Also, remember that this is the year of the notebook computer (Mr. Jobs said it and it's true -- PC notebook sales during last quarter have surpassed desktops).......It could even be argued that the Pentium M has taken the lead from Apple. So, now that the G5 has more-or-less leveled the playing field on the desktop Apple needs to be working very, very hard to bring better performance to their entire line of notebook computers. If they aren't able to do that soon, then I believe that Apple might begin to see some very serious erosion in notebook market share......because I really don't expect to see G5-based PowerBooks until January 2004 (earliest?).
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I agree with this as well. I have always said that while Apple seemed to have the lead in notebooks, the Centrino probably took that lead away --- and it has. The only thing I like about Apple notebooks is the iBook. It beats every notebook in it's price range, in my opinion, or it is at least competitive. But I have seen some Centrino notebooks that have simply outclassed the Powerbook line completely, and all at a price below the 15" PB.

The only thing I disagree with is that Apple will be without a G5 in their PB line until January at the earliest. Sorry, but they could just fit a 1.2GHz G5 in there and appease the masses. Nobody is asking Apple to stick in a dual proc 2.0GHz, just a 1.2GHz G5 that can compete with the Centrino. At this point, I'd settle for that, or even a 1 GHz G5. Whatever. Just get your "new" chip in your products and move them. Having them in a notebook also helps promote the G5. People who aren't looking for a desktop (like myself) don't really care if a G5 can be had in a desktop. I'm only interested in the laptops, and if notebook sales are beating out desktop sales, it is probably more important for Apple to get their notebook line up to par, than it is for them to compete with Intel machines only on Apple's tip-top-end desktops. People want notebooks.
 
Re: Apple will never catch up in GHz, worse yet....

Originally posted by websterphreaky

Jobs is already learnig to lie in public statements, apparently from the supreme liar, Al Gore. There is NO chance there will be any G5 faster than 2GHz by year end and Jobs knows it. The Media certainly knows and is chiding Apple already. Now the press is making hey with the MS and A
Click to expand...

WTF, Jobs never said there would be any faster G5s by year end. He said within a Year, so by June/July we should see 3Ghz(it was the IBM guys i think that actually said it).
 
What is Prescott?

Again I'll say it, this isn't a rumor. This info has been out a while.

Prescott is essentially an upgraded Pentium 4. The Pentium 4 has had a couple other efficiency upgrades in its past (HT, others), but none as significant as this.

This is kind of the opposite of the G4, which is slower per MHz now than when it first came out with its shorter pipeline.

Suposedly Prescott will be faster clock-per-clock in all circumstances, than the current P4. On average maybe 20-30%. This is due to th larger cache and better Hyperthreading.

It also may get the highest yield (talking manufacturing % failure per wafer) of any CPU to date, and is also expected to clock scale quite high past its introductory 3.4 GHz. This part could be considered rumor. We'll have to wait and see.

The BIG rumor is that prescott might be 64-bit capable, but the feature is currently disabled. Sound absurd? Not really. All P4's had Hyperthreading circutry but it wasn't enabled until the 3.06 came out, and now the C-model 2.4's and up. In fact, some (all?) Pentium 3's had hyperthreading circuitry!
 
Oh and about the FSB on the new Pentiums, I would think they would have to release a new chipset if they wanted to come out with a FSB higher than 800Mhz. I doubt we will see a new chipset since they their current chipsets are only a couple months old.
 
Originally posted by Phinius

It's good to know that it has a great cooling system, it really needs it. Did you notice that the G5 also has a very quiet cooling system? [/B]
Click to expand...

The Pentium 4 doesn't need ANY cooling system to survive. But yes, it does need a good one to run at full speed. Most common solutions (Dell...) are extremely quiet.

And currently available top end consumer Macs use more power than currently available top end consumer PC's.

Two G4's generate more heat than one P4. Unfair comparison? Well the performance is comparable.
 
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