UPDATE: Ease of use: powerbook vs. ibook?

[SkyBell]

I'm surprised you were able to get a 12" PB at that price; that's extremely cheap.

Although I would have recommended a 900 MHz iBook G3 or 1 GHz iBook G4, it looks like you are happy with what you bought.

 

[Designer1]

Don't worry... If for some strange reason you don't like it you can always resell it for at least that much. I can tell you that it really is a great size for resting on your lap in a car. I should know...I have a Miata and there is definitely not much leg room going on.....

 

[nhcowboy1]

Thanks for the feedback! Honestly, I wouldn't even have looked at it if ANYONE else was bidding . . . but they weren't! Sheesh, even during the Super Bowl I couldn't get a good deal on a laptop. Someone must have been looking out for me tonight!

My only concern now is connectivity . . . I'm just hoping it will work out in the middle of nowhere! (New Hampshire = mountainous nowhere land)

 

[mkrishnan]

My only concern now is connectivity . . . I'm just hoping it will work out in the middle of nowhere! (New Hampshire = mountainous nowhere land)

The price that you mentioned $425 -- is EXCELLENT for that computer. Probably up to about $500 is reasonable. I wouldn't go north of that.

I ... I apologize for not asking this a long time ago, but you said things like this several times and I let them slide, and I should've asked you about them before you bid on a computer. You've mentioned repeatedly that you're worried about the quality of the Wifi on the PB vs other Macs, since it has mildly lower range than, say, iBooks or Macbooks that have plastic casing.

To what are you planning on connecting? I'm sorry to ask a stupid question, but you understand at a basic level what Wifi is, right? Wifi is a short range wireless networking system. It only works over a couple hundred feet, and you really can only use networks to which you have access. So... if what you're talking about is, say, that you have a T-mobile hotspot account, a Macbook vs. a Powerbook might be the difference between accessing it in the parking lot vs. having to be inside the Starbucks.

A good notebook can access our home network from the street in front of the house, whereas a bad one would need to be in the yard closer to the house, right? But in any event, Wifi is generally a system that you use indoors.... so the mountains outside don't really have any impact on your Wifi connection, as far as I know.

But it isn't like you can just drive around and get wifi in the middle of nowhere -- it isn't broadcast from cell towers or anything. You're not confusing Wifi with cellular data services (EDGE, HSDPA, EVDO, etc), are you? Those are the services "smartphones" use (iPhone, Blackberry, Treo, Q, etc). All those services are provided by cellular companies -- T-Mobile, AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, etc.

Those services are broadcast using the cellular system of towers and satellites. No Mac notebook to date has built-in cellular data services. You can add a card to any one that has a PC Card slot (PB 15/17") or an ExpressCard slot (Macbook Pro), or you can use an external USB one on any recent Mac. Depending on your cell phone and service provider, you can also use your phone as a modem (tethering, either via a USB cable or via Bluetooth, which is built in on most Mac notebooks, including all Powerbooks, later iBooks, and all current notebooks).

But just to be clear, without one of those solutions, you won't have access to the internet when you're in some random place or on the highway or anything.

 

[nhcowboy1]

Sorry for my delay in replying - was down in Boston a good part of the day picking up the computer. This is the first chance I've had to sit down all day . . .

Okay, so what I meant about getting a signal out in the middle of nowhere . . . was that I am hoping there will be a wifi network I can pick up on WITHOUT having to drive my car into someone's front yard (which would be rude, and I'd probably get stuck in the snow).

The two locations I know of that I will need to use the laptop are (1) a college town, where I expect to have no problem, and (2) a small town where I have absolutely no clue what I will find. I am hoping that someone will have a signal I can use . . . but I also know there's no guarantee.

I'll be at location #1 on Friday, and location # 2 on Saturday . . . so I'll see what I can find!

As for natural rock formations interfering with a wifi signal - I don't know. But I do know that my brick hearth (around my woodstove . . . not something you need to worry about in Florida!) played absolute havoc with the signal in my house 'til I figured out what was going on and moved the base station.

BTW, I'm glad to hear you think I got a good deal on the 12". It was more than I'd expected to spend, so that's encouraging. Meanwhile, I haven't even unpacked it yet. I guess I should take it out of the bag and introduce myself . . .

 

[mkrishnan]

Yes, most definitely you should!

I'm originally from Michigan; I'm familiar with stoves... sorry, what I had meant is that rock formations outside your house do not impact your wifi functioning inside your house much. Rock formations that are inside your house are obviously a different story.

Also, you're certainly welcome to ultimately do as you please, but do be aware that driving around looking for and using networks, even open networks, with which you are not affiliated / haven't been invited to use... is almost certainly illegal where you live. Just sayin'....

 

[harrymohan]

Cant say much abt iBook but my Powerbook G4 17" has a best networking card Airport extreme though 2003-04 model it has better wireless card than contemporary wireless cards offered by other companies such as Dell, HP, Sony.

Download usually is at 900-1000 Kbps

 

[noodle654]

Hey, noodle, I'm a little old, too . . . so it works!

Hahahaha....post some pics when you get it. Love to see that thing!

 

[nhcowboy1]

Also, you're certainly welcome to ultimately do as you please, but do be aware that driving around looking for and using networks, even open networks, with which you are not affiliated / haven't been invited to use... is almost certainly illegal where you live. Just sayin'....

Hmmm . . . about this breaking the law thing. That's not good.

In location #1 (the college town), there are several cafes that have wifi reception, as does the local Mac dealer. And my understanding was that there was an open network on the campus itself. I assumed these were all open for anybody to use . . . but I've already spoken to the Mac dealer, so I know I can go to their shop and get access if I need to.

And, as for location #2 - problem solved! It's not the handiest thing in the world, but about 10 minutes out of town is a ski resort with wireless access. So our season pass (purchased for the kid who broke two bones two weeks into the season!) is finally going to pay off!!!

Now, about making friends with this computer . . . I'll see what I can do. So far, it seems to have some problems that were not readily apparent when I picked it up. Keyboard not being level, case not closing properly, wireless card not being recognized (!) . . . I need to plug it in and take a closer look.

BTW, I was surprised to discover how much of a difference the metal casing actually makes. We were out for a few hours yesterday evening, and when I got home and started looking at the laptop, it was COLD compared to the plastic keyboard that was sitting right next to it. The keyboard has never felt cold, no matter how cold the house gets . . . (I'm going to remember that the next time I see "The Graduate" and scoff at Benjamin's possible future in the plastics industry!)

I'll post again after I take a closer look at the system spec's.

 

[nhcowboy1]

Friends we will not be.

The case is indeed not closing properly. It's misaligned and there's a noticeable gap all the way around. It latches most, but not all, of the time. (And remains partially open even when latched.)

The keyboard is either bent or not installed properly. It sticks up on the left, which makes the gap between top and bottom case on that side even more pronounced than elsewhere.

And, last, but not least, the airport card. I have verified that it is, physically, there. And it is not, physically, metaphysically or otherwise, working. Whether it's a problem with the card, the antenna connection or something else, I don't know. But it is NOT showing up on the system profiler.

Aw, heck, working is overrated anyway. I didn't really NEED the laptop today . . . oh no, wait, I needed to work to pay for the laptop. Oh well. It was nice while it lasted.

 

[mkrishnan]

Wow... that's quite a bit of unfortunate information the buyer happened to leave out...

Regarding the gap... your Powerbook's lid should have rubber bumpers at the upper left and right corners (on the inside, that is, to the left and right of the top of the display). The bumpers rest on the casing to the left and right of the trackpad. By design, there should be a uniform gap -- it's small, I think about 1-2 mm -- all the way around, between the lid and the lower casing.

The keyboard has two sets of tabs at the top under the function keys...see the guide below. The keyboard may just not be seated properly -- the tabs pop out every once in a blue moon.

http://www.faqintosh.com/risorse/en/guides/hw/pbook/pb12g4keyb/

It's not quite as easy as on an iBook (this would take eleven seconds flat on an iBook), but you can follow the outlined procedure to make sure the keyboard is properly locked in place. With any luck, that's all it is, and you can have that fixed right away.

The Airport card... hmm.... it should have two physical connections to the computer -- the main PC Card interface and the single antenna cable harness. You might try removing it and re-installing it.

You might also try "zapping the PRAM," which means resetting all the programmable memory (sort of like BIOS settings). You do this by holding command-option-p-r immediately after starting the computer and until you hear the startup chime twice (I think).

P.S. glad that you're talking about using wifi systems to which you have permissions...that's good.

 

[nhcowboy1]

Wow... that's quite a bit of unfortunate information the buyer happened to leave out...

Indeed!

Glad to hear from you this am . . . especially when you seem to be the source of so much good news.

Rubber bumpers on the inside corners of the case . . . seem to be missing. That would explain part of the problem. (And rubber bumpers, along with missing rubber feet, should not be a big deal to replace.)

The fact that it is supposed to have a gap all the way around explains an even larger part of the problem!

I am rather apprehensive about taking the keyboard out - it does seem rather a complex procedure . . . . but if that's quite possibly the only thing standing between where I am now and the case actually closing properly (other than rubber bumpers) - that's VERY good news!

So, that leaves the wifi problem . . . It's interesting that you suggest the memory, because the seller swears up and down and sideways that the wifi WAS working before he erased the HD the night before delivering it to me. He's insisting it must be a software problem. (By the way, someone on the peripherals board pointed me to Apple's step-by step instructions for replacing an airport card on a PB, and I did remove and re-install the card at about 3 am this morning. Very easy to do . . . . and had absolutely no effect whatsoever.)

So, I'd like to try that "zapping the pram" thing. Can you be a bit more specific about what I need to do? Hold down all four keys at once (command-option-p-r) on restart, and then release them WHEN exactly? When I hear the startup chime TWICE? Then what - do I just go ahead and see if airport has reappeared in the system profiler? Or do I need to re-install the startup disc first?

All in all, though, this is excellent news. The situation's not looking quite so dire as it was earlier.

The seller, by the way, upon getting my rather angry email this morning, very politely offered to give me a small partial refund for the missing rubber feet!

 

[mkrishnan]

Regarding the rubber bumpers... I just google imaged this picture (hopefully you can access it from this link)... as a random example of a high-res picture of a PB12" ... you can see what the bumpers are supposed to look like.

http://www.maths.ed.ac.uk/~s0455137/ApertureOn12PB.JPG

Regarding PRAM reset...

http://guides.macrumors.com/Zapping_The_PRAM

Yes, you hold all four keys down from right after you press the power button (what you can do is hold cmd and option down first, I guess, then hit power and use that hand to hold P and R... it's not that crucial that you do it in 50ms, but you have to do it reasonably quickly) until the second chime. If there's no second chime, and it continues booting after the first chime, you didn't do it correctly.

I'm not sure it'll solve anything, but it should force an autodetect of hardware, so if it works, the airport card should be immediately available when it boots without additional work.

 

[nhcowboy1]

Sorry for my delay in replying - I've been taking apart the keyboard. I'm not quite done, but getting there.

It appears that I do have two very small rubber feet on the inside. They are so tiny I hadn't noticed them before.

So, I'll let you know when I'm done with the keyboard . . . then I'll go on to the PRAM.

Thanks!

 

[Jiddick ExRex]

While you are reseating the keyboard, you might as well open her up and even out the latch thing and possibly take a look at the wifi card. It may be just a loose cable or something.

http://www.ifixit.com/guides

 

[nhcowboy1]

While you are reseating the keyboard, you might as well open her up and even out the latch thing and possibly take a look at the wifi card. It may be just a loose cable or something.

God mening, jiddick, men noget for sent. Jeg så jeres email ikke indtil den var al sluttet oppe igen!

The keyboard is seated much better now - one of the obvious problems was that one of the two screws holding it in place was missing! I "borrowed" one from the external memory door - which I'll have to replace later.

Got it all put back together, removed and re-installed the airport card yet again, did the "PRAM zap" and . . . . no change. It still can't see the airport card.

When I go into town this afternoon, I'll stop by the Mac dealer and borrow a used, but known to be good, airport card. Then I'll have a better idea what's going on.

It still isn't closing quite right - the bacl left corner seems bent up a bit, but having the keyboard back where it belongs definitely helps!

So, thank you all for your time and your ideas. Og tusend takket till mig hjalp fra Roskilde! I'll check back later and let you know what's going on.

Judith

 

[nhcowboy1]

Well . . . . it works!

Took it in to a local Mac dealer yesterday and borrowed a known-to-be-good airport card. Put it in - and it worked! (So at least we know there's nothing catastrophic going on, and I can afford a new wireless card if I have to get one . . . .)

Then put the original card back in, and that worked, too!!!

The tech gave me a couple of extra screws to make up for the ones that were missing - and it's good to go!

The only thing I know for sure is that I probably didn't push the card in far enough when I was re-installing it at home. When I did it at the shop, the tech looked at it, frowned, and then gave it another shove. But that does NOT explain why it didn't work in the first place - unless the seller removed it for some reason before I picked it up, and then put it back in incorrectly himself.

As for the gap when the case closes, the tech said that's supposed to be there - at least a very small gap all the way around. And now that I've got the keyboard seated properly (thank you all for your help with that!!!), it's pretty close to that. The gap's still larger at the back left corner, but not too dramatically, and it latches pretty easily now. (The tech said that the irregularity is the way they were shipped from Apple. Anyone heard of this before?)

So, I have to run my son to a class today and I'll finally have a chance to try it!

Then I have to get back to the seller about the scathing email I wrote him yesterday morning . . . . Anyone want to volunteer to write that one for me?

 

[Jiddick ExRex]

You better write it yourself seeing as you are the one he 'harmed' in the first place.

How did you write that Danish gibberish? I understood the meaning but it was all grammatically and semantically screwed

Anyways, you got your gap and the airport fixed. Did it cost you anything more than labour?

If not you're now the proud owner of an awesome portable machine. The PowerBook 12" is really a fine piece of equipment.

 

[nhcowboy1]

No charge for labor! I'd already fixed the keyboard myself, and all the tech did was loan me an airport card and then give me a little help when I didn't get it in far enough. And she didn't charge me for the two screws she gave me.

 

[mkrishnan]

(The tech said that the irregularity is the way they were shipped from Apple. Anyone heard of this before?)

Wow, you're making excellent progress! As far as the irregularity...hmm... it's fairly common that, on the BOTTOM of the Powerbooks and iBooks, the battery does not sit completely 100% flush with the bottom. In my experience this means you can see a gap on the median side of the battery, but it doesn't affect the notebook's balance or the level of the top or anything. Not familiar with / never observed a problem that would affect the hinge where you're describing.

It sounds like it might be something you can let slide. Besides the cold issue, one thing you'll have to live with on Powerbooks is that there will be some minor denting and/or warping of the casing over time, which may lead to some mild cosmetic misfits. Just keep it carefully, though, and it'll be a trooper for years. I know my iBook was like new when I got rid of it after four years ago. Apple notebooks tend to be very sturdy overall.

P.S. The seller still deserved the scathing e-mail, I guess. These problems should've been disclosed.

 

[nhcowboy1]

Regarding the scathing letter to the seller . . .

I agree that the improperly installed keyboard (which in turn kept the case from closing properly) was an obvious enough defect that even someone who described himself as NOT being computer savvy should have both recognized and disclosed it.

As for the airport problem . . . I don't know. I still don't know why it wasn't working in the first place - and that makes a difference. The seller swore up and down and sideways that it worked the night before I picked it up, and he had used it to check his email. Given that it works now, I tend to believe him. Don't know what went wrong afterwards. Yes, it was quite troublesome, but I no longer believe that he intended to deceive me.

If I'd had to pay to get it fixed, I'd expect him to cover that. But I didn't - so we both got off easy. It was a pain in the a$$, and I think a small refund to cover my time and trouble would probably be appropriate, but that's something that can be negotiated. (Frankly, discovering that I could take apart and fix the keyboard myself was payment in itself - I am still quite pleased about that!)

Besides which, life would be so boring if things always went as planned . . . .

Judith

 

[nhcowboy1]

Update

Well, it's been a few weeks since I first joined MR and posted my inquiry regarding powerbooks vs. ibooks. I wanted to get back to all of you who posted replies and thank you for your input, and update you on what I ended up deciding.

First, you may remember that one of the reasons I came here looking for help was that I had no easy way of doing a hands-on comparison of the different laptops. Well, as it turned out, I found a solution to that problem. Read on . . . .

First, I bought the 12" PB that I told everyone about - and which then manifested several rather disconcerting problems. Before those problems were solved (which they all ultimately were), I came across another good deal and figured - since I was expecting at that point to have to return the PB - that I'd better jump on it while I had the chance. I thus became the proud owner of a 14" 1.33 MHz iBook!

24 hours later, of course, the PB's problems were solved and I was now the owner of two laptops.

And then, two days later, as I was still trying to figure out what to do with two of them, I got an email from someone I had contacted several days before, who'd had a very inexpensive Tibook for sale. Because of both the screen size and the price, it had been my first choice - but he had another buyer, so that was the end of that. Until he got back to me. Apparently the other sale had fallen through and did I now want the Tibook?

Well, in for a penny, in for a pound - and I got that one too! The only saving grace was knowing that the mortgage payment wasn't due for a few weeks yet and I'd probably be able to sell them off again before then.

The result of all this was that I did, indeed, get the chance to try all three of them - which, even though expensive, was quite useful.

The Tibook was, by far, the most aesthetically pleasing of the three - I just loved the look and feel of it!

The 12" aluminum was, once I got the bugs worked out, quite a nice little workhorse - and very handy for carrying around.

The 14" iBook, however, beat them both - it wasn't even a contest! The wireless reception and the plastic (rather than metal) casing made all the difference. With the PBs, I had to go into the noisy, crowded cafes to do the work I needed to do. With the iBook, I could relax in the peaceful solitude of my car . . . . get my work done faster, and then go into the cafe when I was done for coffee or dessert.

As for the temperature difference in handling a PB vs. and ibook . . . I was amazed how much of a difference that plastic casing made. Just leaving one of the PBs in my house for a few hours with the heat off, I'd find it absolutely icy to the touch when I came home! Honestly, the next time I see "The Graduate," I will have a much better appreciation of Benjamin's potential future career in plastics . . . As I am just now realizing, plastic is pretty neat stuff!

So, as much as I'm enjoying the variety, the house is getting crowded and the PBs will soon be moving on to new homes - and the iBook is here to stay, at least for the time being. Not at all the outcome I'd expected - but certainly very much in keeping with all the advice you gave me!!!

Well, that's where I ended up. Thank you all again for your advice, suggestions & encouragement!!!