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Updating from Monterey to Ventura (Clean install?)

fdw777

fdw777

macrumors regular
Original poster
Mar 7, 2012
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I still have Monterey OS and want to update to Ventura on my 2021 14" MBP. Should I just update or do a clean install?

If I do a CLEAN install which drive should I erase in Disk Utility.
In the old days I would just delete the disk but now there's "Apple SSD", "Containers disk3", "Macintosh HD", and "Data" (so confusing). Anyway which one would I delete to do a clean install?
 
Since the System Volume became a signed, sealed, verified, read only Volume, quite separate from the -Data Volume, which holds absolutely everything you have ever added to or changed on the machine, there is no point in doing a "Clean" install. A Software Update to Ventura will leave a perfectly clean Ventura System volume in its place, with no cruft or left overs.

If you want to get rid of all cruft, do Erase all Content and Settings to return the machine to factory state, and re-install your apps and data and settings.

The only time you need to erase and reinstall is if your sytem is not booting, or you want to downgrade. There are dangers in using Disk Utility to erase the internal, and it is not necessary (unless non bootable, or downgrading).
 
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StellarVixen said:
Macintosh HD as whole. Those containers are added after a wipe, it's how APFS works.
Click to expand...
Getting into DU by holding down the power button until recovery appears and then clicking on "Options" and then clicking on Disk Utility.

When in DU it appears that "Apple SSD" and then "Containers disk3" and then "Macintosh HD", and finally "Data".

So wiping Macintosh HD wipes everything...correct?
 
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fdw777 said:
Getting into DU by holding down the power button until recovery appears and then clicking on Customize and then clicking on Disk Utility.

When in DU it appears that "Apple SSD" and then "Containers disk3" and then "Macintosh HD", and finally "Data".

So wiping Macintosh HD wipes everything...correct?
Click to expand...
Try wipe the Apple SSD, that should do it
 
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Mike Boreham said:
There are dangers in using Disk Utility to erase the internal, and it is not necessary (unless non bootable, or downgrading).
Click to expand...
Not quite sure what you mean by "dangers"? Can you please elaborate...Thank you!
 
fdw777 said:
Not quite sure what you mean by "dangers"? Can you please elaborate...Thank you!
Click to expand...
If you erase the Recovery and iBoot you will have to connect to another mac and run Apple Configurator 2 to reinstall them.

I have done it and know others who have.

You need to expand the view to show all devices and erase the volume pair (System and Data).

But I reiterate, you dont need to do any erasing or reinstalling (unless machine non bootable or downgrading) as explained above.
 
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fdw777 said:
Not quite sure what you mean by "dangers"? Can you please elaborate...Thank you!
Click to expand...

For starters, do not just simply erase the disk and think it's safe to go. You may find yourself screwed and needing to use another Mac to use to at least create a USB installer stick to reinstall. In fact, I would not only suggest that you create that first, but it is imperative to take a backup of your Mac prior to doing anything. You need to have a way to get back to your last known working state in case of any catastrophe.

If anything, I'd say to take a backup with Time Machine to another disk that you will use for later.

After that, create the USB installer. there are plenty of HOWTOs and pages on how to do that.

From there, reboot your Mac, and direct it to use the USB stick you created as the installer (Not sure if you're on Intel or Silicon; the method for rebooting it differs between Intel and Silicon).

Follow the prompts for installing; if you want to install completely clean, you're good to go; if you want to restore all of your data as well, then the installer can use Migration Assistant. You can select that and point to your TM backup as the source. It will lay perform the install and restore everything you want to restore, then you're done.

But before anything, make a backup first.

BL.
 
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Mike Boreham said:
If you erase the Recovery and iBoot you will have to connect to another mac and run Apple Configurator 2 to reinstall them.

I have done it and know others who have.

You need to expand the view to show all devices and erase the volume pair (System and Data).

But I reiterate, you dont need to do any erasing or reinstalling (unless machine non bootable or downgrading) as explained above.
Click to expand...
Horrible. Didn’t know this. Is there a reason why install media USB doesn’t include this for ARM Macs?

It should be safe to erase Macintosh HD then. For some reason, OP insists on doing clean install, so I guessed he has a good reason for wanting to do that and didn’t try to talk him away from it.
 
StellarVixen said:
It should be safe to erase Macintosh HD then. For some reason, OP insists on doing clean install, so I guessed he has a good reason for wanting to do that and didn’t try to talk him away from it.
Click to expand...
Actually I ask if... "Should I just update or do a clean install".

All my previous Mac's I've done a clean install but these Silicon Mac's seem to be a different animal. To me it's confusing on the correct procedure to clean install on Apple silicon.

Looks like I will end up just updating from AppStore.

Thanks everyone!!!
 
fdw777 said:
Actually I ask if... "Should I just update or do a clean install".

All my previous Mac's I've done a clean install but these Silicon Mac's seem to be a different animal. To me it's confusing on the correct procedure to clean install on Apple silicon.

Looks like I will end up just updating from AppStore.

Thanks everyone!!!
Click to expand...
Indeed, sorry. And yes, ARM Macs seem to over complicate this.

I did some looking, and turns out Macintosh HD is safe to erase.

Use Disk Utility to erase a Mac with Apple silicon - Apple Support

How to erase (format) the built-in startup disk of a Mac with Apple silicon.
support.apple.com support.apple.com
 
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fdw777 said:
I still have Monterey OS and want to update to Ventura on my 2021 14" MBP. Should I just update or do a clean install?

If I do a CLEAN install which drive should I erase in Disk Utility.
In the old days I would just delete the disk but now there's "Apple SSD", "Containers disk3", "Macintosh HD", and "Data" (so confusing). Anyway which one would I delete to do a clean install?
Click to expand...
I'm a huge fan of clean installs when moving from major macOS releases. Almost always cleaner and usually fairly stable.

If you're wiping the drive, you'll want to erase the device at the top level (though, I'm not sure it makes a functional difference. It'll prompt you to reboot and then re-activate the Mac. Then you'll be able to run the installer.

Alternatively (and the method I'm much more a fan of), if you have a second USB-C Mac handy, install Apple Configurator 2 (Free; Mac App Store), boot the 14-inch MacBook Pro into DFU mode, do a restore. That'll clean absolutely everything (including completely restoring 1TR and Failover Recovery Mode).
 
Yebubbleman said:
I'm a huge fan of clean installs when moving from major macOS releases. Almost always cleaner and usually fairly stable.

If you're wiping the drive, you'll want to erase the device at the top level (though, I'm not sure it makes a functional difference. It'll prompt you to reboot and then re-activate the Mac. Then you'll be able to run the installer.

Alternatively (and the method I'm much more a fan of), if you have a second USB-C Mac handy, install Apple Configurator 2 (Free; Mac App Store), boot the 14-inch MacBook Pro into DFU mode, do a restore. That'll clean absolutely everything (including completely restoring 1TR and Failover Recovery Mode).
Click to expand...
Im a fan of clean install as well, but seems more difficult.

I looked in the AppStore for "Apple Configurator 2", but only seen Apple Configurator???
 
fdw777 said:
Im a fan of clean install as well, but seems more difficult.

I looked in the AppStore for "Apple Configurator 2", but only seen Apple Configurator???
Click to expand...

If you have a USB stick, you really may not need it. However, I would highly suggest backing up your Mac before doing anything. If you have that backup, a clean install will be much easier, as you will have no data loss in case of any failure during the install.

BL.
 
Backup (if needed)
download macOS version you need
make bootable thumb drive (Mac OS [X]daily website has great cli walk-thru)
Wipe
clean install

enjoy freshness SHOULD you, yes for extra cleanliness

edit: proper [] website
 
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zapmymac said:
Backup (if needed)
download macOS version you need
make bootable thumb drive (Mac OS daily website has great cli walk-thru)
Wipe
clean install

enjoy freshness SHOULD you, yes for extra cleanliness
Click to expand...

This. and during the install if anything needs to be put back (read: accounts, personal data), Migration Assistant can handle that.

BL.
 
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Mike Boreham said:
Since the System Volume became a signed, sealed, verified, read only Volume, quite separate from the -Data Volume, which holds absolutely everything you have ever added to or changed on the machine, there is no point in doing a "Clean" install. A Software Update to Ventura will leave a perfectly clean Ventura System volume in its place, with no cruft or left overs.

If you want to get rid of all cruft, do Erase all Content and Settings to return the machine to factory state, and re-install your apps and data and settings.

The only time you need to erase and reinstall is if your sytem is not booting, or you want to downgrade. There are dangers in using Disk Utility to erase the internal, and it is not necessary (unless non bootable, or downgrading).
Click to expand...
Well written, Sir, then I don't need to write the same. 👍🏻
 
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