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The D7000 was a upgrade to the D300s and is a semi-pro camera not a professional camera.

My D700 came into it as something was said about age and then you said i was putting off upgrading when i have a D700. My D90 and D80 were backup cameras if anything ever happened to my D700 when shooting say a wedding or event.

No Pro will ever say the camera makes a better photographer i can assure you that.

D7000 was the replacement for the D90. While the D90 was more of a consumer line camera, the D7000 made the move into the Semi-Pro line which fills the gap between the D90 and D300s. But it also out performs the D300s in many things.

You can not deny the Camera has has a lot to do with the quality of photos and the lens as well. The new D7k has newer technology and has better optics. It is going to be better no matter HOW good the photographer is.
 
The D7000 was a upgrade to the D300s and is a semi-pro camera not a professional camera.
For shooting continuous mode, the D7000 doesn't even upgrade the D200.

It really sits between the D90 and D300s, even though it has some advanced improvements over the D330s. We'll quite possibly see those later in 2011 with a D400 upgrade to the D300s.
 
If you haven't already have a look/read through these two reviews of the D90 and D7000

See what features you can and can not live without. I personally would go with a D7000 (currently have D50) because I will need the low light/high iso for concert shooting I am doing.

The D90 is still no slouch when it comes to photos and low light etc. But, for any movie making I would go with the D7000. That and the weather sealed body with 2 camera card slots.
 
For shooting continuous mode, the D7000 doesn't even upgrade the D200.

It really sits between the D90 and D300s, even though it has some advanced improvements over the D330s. We'll quite possibly see those later in 2011 with a D400 upgrade to the D300s.

In one way it does in that the sensor has built-in 14-bit ADC support. So it will move 14-bit data off the sensor and into the buffer much faster that the current generation of cameras. I shoot with a D700, and I have to think before I enable 14-bit processing on my camera if I am shooting sports. I either have to tailor my behaviors to its limitations or forgo some dynamic range. That said, the buffer in the D7000 is on the small side and will fill up too fast for a serious sports shooter. There are very valid reasons to buy a D300s today.

2011 should be an interesting year for Nikon.
 
In one way it does in that the sensor has built-in 14-bit ADC support. So it will move 14-bit data off the sensor and into the buffer much faster that the current generation of cameras. I shoot with a D700, and I have to think before I enable 14-bit processing on my camera if I am shooting sports. I either have to tailor my behaviors to its limitations or forgo some dynamic range. That said, the buffer in the D7000 is on the small side and will fill up too fast for a serious sports shooter. There are very valid reasons to buy a D300s today.

2011 should be an interesting year for Nikon.
The problem with the D7000 shooting RAW is the buffer fills up after 10 shots, so it doesn't matter how fast it moves it to the buffer. With my D200, I get nearly 20 shots before I have to wait for the buffer to wrote to disk. Now part of that is because the D7000 is 16 Mpx, but Nikon didn't increase the buffer to match for continuous mode. Unfortunately, it is not going to do well for me as a motorsports camera. Otherwise, it is fantastic. I'll probably get a D400 when it comes out, and use the D7000 for non-continous shooting with a wide lens.
 
The problem with the D7000 shooting RAW is the buffer fills up after 10 shots, so it doesn't matter how fast it moves it to the buffer. With my D200, I get nearly 20 shots before I have to wait for the buffer to wrote to disk. Now part of that is because the D7000 is 16 Mpx, but Nikon didn't increase the buffer to match for continuous mode. Unfortunately, it is not going to do well for me as a motorsports camera. Otherwise, it is fantastic. I'll probably get a D400 when it comes out, and use the D7000 for non-continous shooting with a wide lens.

Actually this has a lot to do with the memory card and speeds. Not the camera itself. Class 10 card from a good company like Sandisk will be able to write those files fast so the buffer will be less of a issue.
 
Actually this has a lot to do with the memory card and speeds. Not the camera itself. Class 10 card from a good company like Sandisk will be able to write those files fast so the buffer will be less of a issue.

No, it doesn't!

I'm not talking about getting the buffer to the card. I'm taking about how many shots the camera can put in the buffer before it it has to stop shooting and write the buffer to disk. Obviously, if you use fast cards, the recovery time is faster, but the buffer is the same no matter what cards you use. With the D7000 I get half as many shots off as the D200 when panning cars in continuos mode.

I've been doing this for years. I can see the difference with the D7000. It just doesn't perform as well panning in continuous mode. Even the reviews make note of that.
 
9 shots. It matters because I bet the D400 sensor looks a lot like the one in the D7000, but it will be housed in a more capable body.
And it will likely have a larger buffer than the D7000, comparable in performance to the D200/300s.

9 shots vs. 10 isn't gonna make a pickle of difference.
 
No, it doesn't!

I'm not talking about getting the buffer to the card. I'm taking about how many shots the camera can put in the buffer before it it has to stop shooting and write the buffer to disk. Obviously, if you use fast cards, the recovery time is faster, but the buffer is the same no matter what cards you use. With the D7000 I get half as many shots off as the D200 when panning cars in continuos mode.

I've been doing this for years. I can see the difference with the D7000. It just doesn't perform as well panning in continuous mode. Even the reviews make note of that.

Okay maybe you aren't listening well.

The camera starts to fill the buffer up. If it can't push those pictures out to the memory card FAST enough, then it will fill the buffer up. Fast memory cards will prevent this. Class 10 is needed for this camera to not fill that buffer up. So then you can have more shots taken BEFORE the buffer fills up. Basically it's able to push the pictures out to the card fast while you are taking the pictures. So instead of 8-10 let's say for a Class 6, with a Class 10, that can do way faster transfer rate, it will act more like 15 or so before it stops taking shots.

Again this has a lot to do with the memory card speed to help speed that process up over the Buffer. Yes the Buffer could use some improvement, but using slower memory cards do not help.
 
Fast memory cards will prevent this.

Nope, but they can help alleviate the problem. I use UDMA cards that see a 25MB/sec transfer speed. I can fill the buffer in my camera, and it's quite a bit larger than the one in the D7000. When the buffer is full, you're done shooting until it's not full.
 
Okay maybe you aren't listening well.

The camera starts to fill the buffer up. If it can't push those pictures out to the memory card FAST enough, then it will fill the buffer up. Fast memory cards will prevent this. Class 10 is needed for this camera to not fill that buffer up. So then you can have more shots taken BEFORE the buffer fills up. Basically it's able to push the pictures out to the card fast while you are taking the pictures. So instead of 8-10 let's say for a Class 6, with a Class 10, that can do way faster transfer rate, it will act more like 15 or so before it stops taking shots.

Again this has a lot to do with the memory card speed to help speed that process up over the Buffer. Yes the Buffer could use some improvement, but using slower memory cards do not help.
I think you're not understanding my style of shooting.

I own the D7000. I own 8 GB Sandisk Extreme Class 10 30/BBs/sec cards and have two loaded in it. In fact, memory cards are not where I take shortcuts, which is why I spend the extra for class 10 name brand cards.

Shooting RAW I get about 9 shots before the shutter stops. When I stand at a corner and pan a race car coming by at 150 MPH, I want to get about 15-20 shots off in 3 or 4 seconds as I pan it going by. The D7000 lets me get half that. Then I can get about 1 shot/sec, but that doesn't really do me any good. That's not how race shots are done. In other words, I need the buffer to recover fully, before I start again, say for another car coming by. Getting single shots off as the buffer makes room for them does me little good.


But don't take my word for it. Go read the DPReview on it. They say the negative of this camera is the lack of buffer and how that doesn't make it a good sports camera.
 
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Specs and tables are meaningless to me. It's what I get in the field shooting real pictures that counts.

Like I said, the D7000 doesn't hold up to performance I need for panning. I will likely continue to use my D200 for that, and use the D7000 for things like ad hoc track, paddock, pit, people shots. I'll switch to the D7000 for high ISO race shots in low light (evening/night racing).

Can't wait for the D400 to come out. :)
 
Specs and tables are meaningless to me. It's what I get in the field shooting real pictures that counts.

Like I said, the D7000 doesn't hold up to performance I need for panning. I will likely continue to use my D200 for that, and use the D7000 for things like ad hoc track, paddock, pit, people shots. I'll switch to the D7000 for high ISO race shots in low light (evening/night racing).

Can't wait for the D400 to come out. :)

Well the graph proves that you can get good shots if the files were smaller like on your D200. So more shots would work. If you switched it to JPG fine, you can get 32 shots, or to Medium and get 100. The size of the files being much bigger is the main reason why your D200 does better vs the D7k.
 
Well the graph proves that you can get good shots if the files were smaller like on your D200. So more shots would work. If you switched it to JPG fine, you can get 32 shots, or to Medium and get 100. The size of the files being much bigger is the main reason why your D200 does better vs the D7k.
Look, I'm not stupid. I can figure all that out. Besides, I shoot RAW...end of story.

The D7000 is not a great motorsports camera. I've put over 60K shots on my D200 doing race pictures, so I feel like I'm a pretty good judge of whether it's suitable or not. I'm over it. Maybe you should get over it too. ;)

Risi_PLM2010.jpg
 
I actually sold my D90 to a friend who had a D80 and he has taken way better pictures with it vs his D80. He is very impressed with it. Sounds to be you are making excuses to not upgrade.

I'm a bit puzzled by this. How are your friend's images with the D90 better than his D80? Please elaborate.

I new body does nothing for composition. It does nothing for lighting. Assuming the same lens is being used, it does nothing for distortion or contrast. It's been awhile since I've compared a D80 and D90, but I'm not sure that the body change will result in a difference in sharpness (though it's theoretically possible that with a good lens the difference in sensors could result in an improvement in sharpness; I'm too lazy to look up the sensor changes that happened between the D80 and D90).

So I will go back to my original question: how exactly did your friend's images improve following the body switch? If he shoots in JPEG, then the difference could be chocked up to differences in camera settings. If he shoots in RAW then I have to seriously question your assertion.

Canon and Nikon WANT people to believe that the camera body is the most important element in image creation that distinguishes "good" images from "bad" images. It is vital to their bottom line to make sure that everyone feels the need to purchase the "latest and greatest" if they want to make stellar images.

The body is the least important component of image making. There are obviously exceptions, where you really need a specific body to create a specific image, but in general a body upgrade will get you the least bang-for-your-buck.

So what does matter?

Choice of subject > composition > lighting >proper exposure for the shooting conditions/image you wish to create > appropriate lens choice (focal length) > quality of lens. Obviously some will argue about this specific order, but these are the "vital" components. Format enters in there as well as a pretty big priority (small image sensor on a P&S, cropped sensor, full frame sensor, medium format, large format). Camera body is the least important element in image making. Better bodies usually offer convenience (easier to make adjustments without fumbling through menus). The ergonomics of holding the camera can be important. But for most applications that amateurs use cameras for, the choice of body has minimal impact on the final image. "But the specs are better. You are a fool. Objective data states that this body is better than the previous generation." Photography isn't about specs, it is about images. Sometimes the specs actually translate into noticeable improvements. Most of the time they don't. If you happen to be shooting something that would benefit from the better specs, then do your own cost/benefit analysis as to whether it is worthwhile to upgrade. But for most amateur applications, you won't see any real improvement with a body upgrade. Going from a P&S to a DSLR, yes. Going from 35mm to large format, yes. Going from one body in a given class to another body in the same class, probably no.

Lenses have a much larger impact on the final image compared to bodies, assuming the basics of composition, lighting, and exposure are met. A good lens will offer better contrast and less distortion than a crappy lens. It will also offer better theoretical sharpness, though whether this translates into the final image is dependent on the technique used when capturing the image and possibly on the limits of the sensor in the body. OMG, body does matter then. Well kind of. For specific applications it's relevant to match the resolving power of your lens to your body but for most real-world amateur applications this is only an issue on paper. How often do most normal non-professional people print at a size where this issue becomes relevant?

To argue that your friend suddenly started taking "better" images after upgrading from a D80 to a D90 is a comical assertion assuming that nothing else changed in the transition. The differences between these two bodies won't be evident in most real-world applications. Pixel-peeping you might see them. Maybe. I can't recall if significant metering changes happened between these two bodies, so that might be an area where improvement was observed. The D70 had exposure issues, but I don't remember this being the case with the D80.

It isn't enough to quote reviews on how one body is better than another. Cameras are tools, nothing more. It shouldn't be about the gear, it should be about the images. Most of the differences with current (or relatively recent) bodies are about bells-and-whistles that don't actually influence the images produced by the camera (assuming you care about the final viewed image and aren't obsessed with pixel-peeping or performance against test charts). If your creativity is limited by your current gear (either body or lens), then by all means purchase something that will better suite your needs. But really think about how your current setup is limiting you. Will it really be fixed by a new body? Would it be fixed by a different lens? Sometimes you might be better served by filters, tripods, or lighting gear rather than listening to the Canon/Nikon marketing machine. Depends on what you shoot. But don't for a second believe that a new piece of gear will magically produce better images if the real problem lies in your inexperience and poor technique. Henri Cartier-Bresson is one of the last century's greatest photographers. He shot almost all of his work with a rangefinder and a 50mm prime lens. I can only imagine him laughing in his grave at a debate between a D90 and D7000.
 
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I'm a bit puzzled by this. How are your friend's images with the D90 better than his D80? Please elaborate.

I'm going to take a shot in the dark here and guess that it might be something like better high-ISO performance, faster burst rate, or more accurate AF tracking, etc.

Not everything can be shot with a rangefinder.
 
I'm going to take a shot in the dark here and guess that it might be something like better high-ISO performance, faster burst rate, or more accurate AF tracking, etc.

Not everything can be shot with a rangefinder.

I never owned a D90. Went from a D80 to a D300 then to a D700 for full frame and better low light performance. Were the changes between the D80 and D90 so dramatic that a normal person could notice them? Night and day? Real-world images, not just theoretical improvements?

Sometimes there are changes in bodies that actually matter, though I'm not sure that many of the improvements are needed by those making the upgrade. But as I stated, if you need a new body for your specific shooting requirements, then go for it.

The trend I have noticed in this forum however is quite the opposite. Many posts about wanting a new body, but not able to really state what a new body will add over their old body. Most of the time it isn't about how the current body is holding them back, but instead about spewing marketing bullets and a blind faith that a new body will solve all their image issues. This is rarely the case for many of those posting. If your body really is the limiting factor in your images, you usually know it and don't need to make a post about it. Nothing wrong with asking for advice about the differences between two bodies as the OP did. Even then, the discussion should be: here is my current body. Here is what I like to shoot. Here is how my current body is limiting me. Which of these two bodies will be better for my shooting needs? But that isn't how the discussion went. Then a random person jumped in and started spouting marketing BS about how the D7000 is the greatest thing since sliced bread. Arguing that it is a viable option for another poster for whom it clearly isn't an appropriate body.

So I decided (stupidly) to step in and attempt to put things in perspective. Dumb decision and one I now regret. Too many posters in this forum think that gear is a panacea for poor technique. Specific types of shooting can require specific gear. Fine. But the blind faith that with a new body one will magically produce better images is silly unless the new body offers specific options that the older body didn't.
 
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Sometimes there are changes in bodies that actually matter, though I'm not sure that many of the improvements are needed by those making the upgrade. But as I stated, if you need a new body for your specific shooting requirements, then go for it.

Agreed.

The trend I have noticed in this forum however is quite the opposite. Many posts about wanting a new body, but not able to really state what a new body will add over their old body.

Well, we are all here because we're computer nerds, right? ;) (Besides, it's not half as bad as it is in the dpreview forums!) :D

Anyway, I think lots of people have made good points. The OP wrote about upgrading to get "print-worthy shots," so without knowing why he/she is not getting them now, I guess it's hard to know whether to recommend lenses, a new body, or a good beginner's guide to photography. :D
 
Well, we are all here because we're computer nerds, right? ;) (Besides, it's not half as bad as it is in the dpreview forums!) :D

Anyway, I think lots of people have made good points. The OP wrote about upgrading to get "print-worthy shots," so without knowing why he/she is not getting them now, I guess it's hard to know whether to recommend lenses, a new body, or a good beginner's guide to photography. :D

No arguments. I keep debating about making a thread where I post example images from the last 5 to 10 years, shot with various cameras ranging from P&S to DSLR and various lenses from consumer grade to pro and seeing how many people can distinguish what was shot with "expensive" gear and what was shot with "cheap" gear. Just haven't gotten around to it.

To the OP: neither of those body choices will be as "future proof" as you hope. Image sensor technology is improving at a rapid pace. I don't have a crystal ball, so I'm not sure where things are going to go in the consumer space. Possibly moving full-frame sensors into entry-level cameras (which would make any lens purchase you make now worthless when you upgrade to a full-frame consumer body in the future). Probably further improving low-light performance, though it's getting pretty crazy as-is. Better dynamic range? Video will likely see huge improvements in the next few years, though it's hard to know how important that will be to consumers. Regardless of where the industry goes, whatever body you buy today will seem horribly outdated within a couple of years. Nature of the beast. Digital bodies are poor investments at the present time. The only consoling factor is that similar to computers, if what you buy today meets your needs it will continue to produce the same results and quality into the future.
 
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I can see people talking about D700 being better than newer cameras, D80, D40 etc.

Some things can only be accomplished by having great camera performance, but the rest is the person behind the camera controlling it. A great photographer will push their camera to the limits.

The D700 isn't the be all and end all of cameras. It was a good camera in its day, and now it is being matched or surpassed by newer cameras. That's only natural, it has been around for a while.

And nobody should ever be afraid to used the "P" mode. It's not a sign of weakness of the photographer. You use all tools available to you to get the best images. That's my way.

kallisti: Yes, the D90 outperforms the D80 for image quality when you push the ISO higher.
 
If you are looking to shoot sports or low light the d7000 will benefit you. As well having an AF motor in camera will give you the ability to use third party glass. AF will will be better on the d7k.

If you are looking to take portraits, save your money invest in some more glass and some lights.

If you need better ISO performance for low light shooting, and more accurate auto focus than upgrade to the d7k. Its based on what drives your needs.


Personally, I'm selling my Canon Gear 5d classic,85mm f/1.8, and flash to switch to Nikon and buy a d7000. Why?

Better AF, Better ISO, Video (Had a t1i/500d), and other features that matter to me. So make sure you are buying a new body for the right reasons.
 
To be honest, I don't think you should switch to Nikon.

Save your money up for a bit longer, and think of upgrading to EOS 1D4 body. In Australia, those are down around AUD$4200, and it's a heck of a lot of camera for the money, with brilliant AF and great low light performance. It's also really, really fast.

Going D7000 and changing heaps of lenses and other equipment is never the way to go in that situation when Canon still has capable equipment.

I know I should be saying otherwise to try and convert people to Nikon, but in this case, it'd be silly.
 
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