Upgradeable Macs Gone Forever?

[Jnesbitt82]

I know this has probably been brought up before. Maybe a dead issue.

But do you think classic MacBooks are ever coming back?

I have an early 2011 13" MBP that I upgraded to 16GB RAM in early 2012. Then I upgraded the HDD to an SSD early 2013. I think I'll have to upgrade the capacity of the SSD some time in the future.

I love having the ability to do this. It's much more inexpensive to do these upgrades when you need them, rather than this silly notion that you have to be a genie and predict your needs, and somehow know what hardware resources applications will require 5 years from now.

It's just unfortunate that we don't even have the option for a classic MBP.

/rant

You're not alone. The main reason I didn't buy the new rMBP was the soldered
Components. I purchased the previous model non-retina with a build date of July 2013. At the time all I could afford was the i7 with 8gb of ram and a 750gb hardrive. Once my college money arrives in February, I'll be upgrading to 16gb ram and a Thunderbolt Display. One day, I'll get a ssd drive as well.

Nope, I can't see that happening. The fact that the laptops aren't upgradeable allows for so much more flexibility with the design, and I would really think that consumers care more about better battery life and bigger numbers in the spec sheet than being able to upgrade, which is something that 99,9 % of customers wouldn't do even if they could...

For me, I would give up battery life in order to retain user-upgradable components.

 

[disasterdrone]

For me, I would give up battery life in order to retain user-upgradable components.

I love the Lenovo designs that let you use the use expansion bay to add extra battery capacity, or hard drives, or graphics cards, or whatever YOU want. They're awesome.

 

[leman]

Simple: something gets damaged and you need a new computer. Just wait for the warranty to run out and you need a new Mac.

And how is it different from before? You can opt for a repair, but laptop repair always used to be costly.

Having a Mac ment to have a very powerful personal computer, nowadays you are stuck with whatever combination you can configure from the get go and it is not possible to upgrade afterwards or repair it.Apple RAM and Drives are very expensive when compared with the market prices.

Current macs are more powerful than ever before. The 16GB RAM upgrade for laptops costs 40$ over the market price. Wouldn't call it very expensive. Kind of agree on SSDs - there is a high chance those are/will be replaceable shortly.

Anything you buy for more than $1,000.00 should last more than 3 years.
When you get into the "higher end" models we are talking about $2,000 and $3,000 or even more.

Its a conjecture, and a quite unreasonable one. Why should it last more then 3 years when CPU/GPU/display/RAM vendors ono give 3 year warranty on their components? If you are dissatisfied with the price of Apple computers, you are welcome to look for another brand. Good luck finding better quality for less money

In addition to the limitation by the recent designs of glueing and soldering components, the manufacturing quality is terrible.

Again, a conjecture. I don't see 'glueing and soldering' as a limitation, it reduces form factor and increases reliability. Soldering has been used in electronics since forever. And adhesives are a high-end modern technology. My motorcycle engine is held together by 'glue'.

Last but not least - if you want to see 'terrible manufacturing quality' - go to any computer store and look at non-Apple laptops

 

[priitv8]

And adhesives are a high-end modern technology. My motorcycle engine is held together by 'glue'.

That's even true in modern cars (if you can call a 10-years old car as such). E.g look at the right column on the 1st page in this paper.

 

[brdeveloper]

If there is, it will probably going to cost like half the price of a brand new MBP anyway.

It seems a big deal comparing to a theoretical BTO offering (e.g. 24GB or 32GB, depending on the model).

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Honestly, eventually majority of our local and mobile computing needs will be cloud based and it won't matter. We will be discussing which service has the best processing power. Not which manufacturer. Upgrades will be done on the fly real time on remote servers. Our only Achilles heel will be the I don't limits of our individual internet speeds.

I don't see 10Gbps internet speeds in the next 10 years and if we have it will be more affordable buying a new rmbp plenty of newer storage...

 

[trewyn15]

Get em while you still can...

My girlfriend has one, so I'll probably buy it off her when she's done with it to fund her RAM upgrade on the new one or something

There's a pretty big difference, my retina is ~30% thinner then my 2010 MBP and there's a bunch of other changes too. If you pinch them in the front corner with the lid open the retina feels just a sturdy if not more so, harder to twist too.

But the point being, 2008/2009 MBP's are still not all that thick.

 

[leman]

You're not alone. The main reason I didn't buy the new rMBP was the soldered
Components. I purchased the previous model non-retina with a build date of July 2013. At the time all I could afford was the i7 with 8gb of ram and a 750gb hardrive. Once my college money arrives in February, I'll be upgrading to 16gb ram and a Thunderbolt Display. One day, I'll get a ssd drive as well.

This is very good example of an attitude which I can't understand. You payed what, $1,799.00 (or more?) for that machine. You will pay $150 for RAM now and $200 more for 250Gb SSD (ok, maybe in two years you will get a 512GB SSD for $200). So you are looking at $2200 for a machine with 16GB/256GB SSD or at $2350 for a 16GB/512GB SSD. In comparison, the top-end retina is only $250 more. The difference shrinks when you are using student rebates. In the end, you save a few dimes and are stuck with a bulkier, heavier computer and an inferior screen.

If you were/are short for money - refurb store is your friend. A refurb 2012 rMBP with 16Gb RAM and 512Gb SSD is $2,079.00 with full warranty and whatnot. You can't beat that price with your non-retina model. Not now, not in the future.

 

[tymaster50]

You have to think of it like this. Should the form factor suffer because a loud minority want to upgrade? How many people need 16 gigs of RAM? How many people game on a mac to justify a GPU and video card upgrade? For all intents and purposes, an external HD does just as well, if not better than the one that comes in computers lol.

 

[brdeveloper]

You have to think of it like this. Should the form factor suffer because a loud minority want to upgrade? How many people need 16 gigs of RAM? How many people game on a mac to justify a GPU and video card upgrade? For all intents and purposes, an external HD does just as well, if not better than the one that comes in computers lol.

External RAM and GPU and we would stop complaining. But we would need 1Tbps bus speed.

 

[disasterdrone]

External RAM and GPU and we would stop complaining. But we would need 1Tbps bus speed.

I don't want my slick laptop to look like a christmas tree of dangle-on peripherals.

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You have to think of it like this. Should the form factor suffer because a loud minority want to upgrade? How many people need 16 gigs of RAM? How many people game on a mac to justify a GPU and video card upgrade? For all intents and purposes, an external HD does just as well, if not better than the one that comes in computers lol.

Not for a consumer line - sure - I don't mind apple making a line of consumer laptops like the air that are pretty much tablets with a built in keyboard, what I'm upset about is them stopping making a pro line.
It's the same across the board - iWork was just gutted, removing a lot of features that are not easy to implement on a tablet, and trashing what used to be a really good word processor. They're getting out of the pro business, and following the money to the tablet / hipster / Facebook crowd. That's fine as a business strategy, but it means people with serious computing needs will have to start looking elsewhere.

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This is very good example of an attitude which I can't understand. You payed what, $1,799.00 (or more?) for that machine. You will pay $150 for RAM now and $200 more for 250Gb SSD (ok, maybe in two years you will get a 512GB SSD for $200). So you are looking at $2200 for a machine with 16GB/256GB SSD or at $2350 for a 16GB/512GB SSD. In comparison, the top-end retina is only $250 more. The difference shrinks when you are using student rebates. In the end, you save a few dimes and are stuck with a bulkier, heavier computer and an inferior screen.

If you were/are short for money - refurb store is your friend. A refurb 2012 rMBP with 16Gb RAM and 512Gb SSD is $2,079.00 with full warranty and whatnot. You can't beat that price with your non-retina model. Not now, not in the future.

Sure you can. How much is a retina model with 2tb of storage? Oh wait, they don't make one and its impossible to upgrade it yourself. In the time I've had my MBP storage options that simply didn't exist when I bought it have become available. That game is over now.

 

[leman]

Sure you can. How much is a retina model with 2tb of storage? Oh wait, they don't make one and its impossible to upgrade it yourself. In the time I've had my MBP storage options that simply didn't exist when I bought it have become available. That game is over now.

How silly of me. Still, could you point me to where one can get that cheap 2 TB SSD you now have? Always wanted one of those

P.S. it's pointless to discuss hypothetical upgrades. For all we know, in one year it could be possible to buy a 2TB SSD module for the rMBP. Or maybe there will never be affordable 2TB SATA SSDs

 

[priitv8]

...and its impossible to upgrade it yourself.

If you have two hands and a pentalobe screwdriver - it sure is possible.

 

[Jnesbitt82]

This is very good example of an attitude which I can't understand. You payed what, $1,799.00 (or more?) for that machine. You will pay $150 for RAM now and $200 more for 250Gb SSD (ok, maybe in two years you will get a 512GB SSD for $200). So you are looking at $2200 for a machine with 16GB/256GB SSD or at $2350 for a 16GB/512GB SSD. In comparison, the top-end retina is only $250 more. The difference shrinks when you are using student rebates. In the end, you save a few dimes and are stuck with a bulkier, heavier computer and an inferior screen.

If you were/are short for money - refurb store is your friend. A refurb 2012 rMBP with 16Gb RAM and 512Gb SSD is $2,079.00 with full warranty and whatnot. You can't beat that price with your non-retina model. Not now, not in the future.

Actually, my mbp cost $1,249 for 2.9 i7 processor 8gb ram and 750gb hd. The point is I still have the freedom to upgrade when and if I want too. I'm not saying that everyone should buy what I bought but I shouldn't have to buy something because others think they know what my needs are.

 

[kelon111]

Absolutely, that's great for Apple shareholders, not good for the minority of people who still need a pro laptop.

Wait , Apple makes "Pro" laptops? I thought they were just called "Pro" for marketing purposes. I'm still waiting for a Fire Pro or Quadro GPU on a Mac laptop....

 

[McGiord]

And how is it different from before? You can opt for a repair, but laptop repair always used to be costly.



Current macs are more powerful than ever before. The 16GB RAM upgrade for laptops costs 40$ over the market price. Wouldn't call it very expensive. Kind of agree on SSDs - there is a high chance those are/will be replaceable shortly.



Its a conjecture, and a quite unreasonable one. Why should it last more then 3 years when CPU/GPU/display/RAM vendors ono give 3 year warranty on their components? If you are dissatisfied with the price of Apple computers, you are welcome to look for another brand. Good luck finding better quality for less money



Again, a conjecture. I don't see 'glueing and soldering' as a limitation, it reduces form factor and increases reliability. Soldering has been used in electronics since forever. And adhesives are a high-end modern technology. My motorcycle engine is held together by 'glue'.

Last but not least - if you want to see 'terrible manufacturing quality' - go to any computer store and look at non-Apple laptops

So I am the master of conjectures and unreasonable.
Please illustrate me with you cosmical wisdom what is the information I am missing here?
If a glued/soldered component no longer works you have to replace the whole assembly or the whole Mac.
Disposable means you cannot longer use it or upgrade it after a period of time. In my case I expect an investment of that magnitude of money to last more than 3 years, is that unreasonable to you?
When you got your first Mac? What model was it? How many have you bought?
Apple's quality have suffered significantly over last couple of decades.

 

[brdeveloper]

I don't want my slick laptop to look like a christmas tree of dangle-on peripherals.

I have a lot of cables and peripherals plugged on my white Macbook. That is, if you need using your laptop at work, probably you'll have a lot of peripherals plugged on it. I have an USB hub, external display, smartphone...

On my rMBP (now on service) I had dual external displays, thunderbolt gigabit adapter, USB hub and so on. I wouldn't mind having one more external device. It's work and if all modules fit into my desk, I'm ok. When really mobile, I don't need even wired networking, but would be nice if we could turn our laptop into a real workstation when at our desks.

 

[leman]

If a glued/soldered component no longer works you have to replace the whole assembly or the whole Mac.

Not at all different from previous Macs. A minor component failure on a previous Mac also usually means logic board replacement. The only difference is RAM (where failures are extremely rare) and battery (which can be replaced by Apple for a reasonable fee, as already explained).

Disposable means you cannot longer use it or upgrade it after a period of time.

Again, its not that different from any other Mac. As I (and other) have explained before, 16GB is the max which will ever be supported by a current-fen MBP, user-replaceable RAM or not. Just buy it up-front and its as good as it would ever get. The other common denominator are battery (not an issue -> Apple's replacement service) and storage (could be an issue, but hopefully SSD modules become accessible in the future because of the Mac Pro).

In my case I expect an investment of that magnitude of money to last more than 3 years, is that unreasonable to you?

3 year warranty is a standard in the industry. Components that Apple buys only have 3 years warranty (or less). Why would you expect Apple give you a longer warranty?

When you got your first Mac? What model was it? How many have you bought?
Apple's quality have suffered significantly over last couple of decades.

I have worked with dozens of Macs, starting with the original PowerBook and iMac G3 - most of which I have opened at that or another point. I do not consider the current MBP to be inferior in any way. The unibody enclosure design is much better than anything before it and the rMBP takes it to a new level of quality. IMO, of course.

 

[disasterdrone]

I have a lot of cables and peripherals plugged on my white Macbook. That is, if you need using your laptop at work, probably you'll have a lot of peripherals plugged on it. I have an USB hub, external display, smartphone...

On my rMBP (now on service) I had dual external displays, thunderbolt gigabit adapter, USB hub and so on. I wouldn't mind having one more external device. It's work and if all modules fit into my desk, I'm ok. When really mobile, I don't need even wired networking, but would be nice if we could turn our laptop into a real workstation when at our desks.

At work I have an external monitor, keyboard and mouse. Those are nice to have, but if my storage is on my desk at work, my laptop is no longer mobile, because I don't have the core thing I'm working with.

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storage (could be an issue, but hopefully SSD modules become accessible in the future because of the Mac Pro).

I love that your solution for storage is that hopefully there's a fix in the future. There likely won't be for anyone with soldered storage.

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How silly of me. Still, could you point me to where one can get that cheap 2 TB SSD you now have? Always wanted one of those

P.S. it's pointless to discuss hypothetical upgrades. For all we know, in one year it could be possible to buy a 2TB SSD module for the rMBP. Or maybe there will never be affordable 2TB SATA SSDs

I didn't say anything about 2tb ssds. I said storage. I have a 512ssd and a 1.5tb spinning disk in my MBP. It's fast, cheap, has plenty of space, and is available now. The great thing is that I can configure it the way I want now.

 

[kelon111]

3 year warranty is a standard in the industry. Components that Apple buys only have 3 years warranty (or less). Why would you expect Apple give you a longer warranty?

I can get 5 years of warranty service and accidental damage protection from Dell. Why should Apple have a shorter warranty than Dell? Of course I'm talking about premium Dell models (e.g. Precision).

Since Apple offers premium machines , shouldn't they offer 5 years of warranty service and accidental damage protection as well?

 

[disasterdrone]

I can get 5 years of warranty service and accidental damage protection from Dell. Why should Apple have a shorter warranty than Dell? Of course I'm talking about premium Dell models (e.g. Precision).

Since Apple offers premium machines , shouldn't they offer 5 years of warranty service and accidental damage protection as well?

It's not even about warranty - it's that when your drive or anything else for that matter fails out of warranty it can't be repaired.

 

[simonsi]

...shouldn't they offer 5 years of warranty service and accidental damage protection as well?

Only if it alters the consumer's buying decision. Apple have a habit of being conservative with supply, they actively discourage discounting from approved outlets and actively discourage unapproved outlets....doesn't sound like they need to add further to the product/warranty/service proposition really....

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It's not even about warranty - it's that when your drive or anything else for that matter fails out of warranty it can't be repaired.

Warranty is 1yr, Apple Care is up to 3yrs - how do you think they will deal with hardware failures during that period?

Don't confuse "non-customer upgradable" with "unrepairable". The glued-in battery will be replaceable, it just isn't (easily) customer-replaceable.

 

[disasterdrone]

Only if it alters the consumer's buying decision. Apple have a habit of being conservative with supply, they actively discourage discounting from approved outlets and actively discourage unapproved outlets....doesn't sound like they need to add further to the product/warranty/service proposition really....

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Warranty is 1yr, Apple Care is up to 3yrs - how do you think they will deal with hardware failures during that period?

Don't confuse "non-customer upgradable" with "unrepairable". The glued-in battery will be replaceable, it just isn't (easily) customer-replaceable.

The trouble is that if it's not customer repairable the likelihood is you kill the cost effectiveness of repair at all.

 

[simon48]

The trouble is that if it's not customer repairable the likelihood is you kill the cost effectiveness of repair at all.

If it's under warranty like simonsi said it's free.

 

[wonderspark]

How silly of me. Still, could you point me to where one can get that cheap 2 TB SSD you now have? Always wanted one of those

P.S. it's pointless to discuss hypothetical upgrades. For all we know, in one year it could be possible to buy a 2TB SSD module for the rMBP. Or maybe there will never be affordable 2TB SATA SSDs

My 2012 cMBP has 2x1TB SSDs, and anti-glare screen. I know for a fact it was far cheaper that way. If 2TB SSDs come out, I can have 4TB instead of the current 2TB, thanks to DIY upgrade capability.

We all have our preferences. When the time comes to replace this laptop, I'll see what my options are, but hope I can avoid buying a disposable, non-upgradable device.

 

[simonsi]

The trouble is that if it's not customer repairable the likelihood is you kill the cost effectiveness of repair at all.

rMBP batteries (glued in). Non-customer repairable but can be repaired (i.e. new battery) via Apple at a fixed charge.

Conversely RAM that is soldered requires special tools etc to change and it may be repairable on a return to base basis or via specialist workshops but yes there may be a cost-effective point when it may become cost-ineffective to repair.