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macrumors 65816
Original poster
Jun 23, 2003
1,455
246
Gravesend, United Kingdom
Hi,

Thought I'd do a mini-review of my new 2017 13" Touchbar MBP from the perspective of someone who doesn't upgrade very often! Clearly, people like me will have a different perspective to someone who gets a new machine every year or two.

My old machine was only my second Apple laptop. My first was a 2006 Core Duo 15" MBP (straight after the Intel switch). The one I've just replaced was a Late 2010 15" with the high-res screen, upgraded to 8GB RAM, a 120GB SSD and a 2TB HD in the Optical bay. I'd also upgraded the bluetooth/wifi module to one which allowed AirDrop/Continuity via a software patch.

The new machine was from the Apple Refurb store. It's a 13" 2017 4x Thunderbolt 3, 3.1GHz i5 with 16GB RAM and 250GB SSD.

Firstly, the screen size. Looking through the refurb options, it was clear that to keep the cost acceptable whilst getting a reasonably beefy machine, I'd need to go for the 13" over the 15". I'd never owned a sub 15" laptop before, but thought I'd give it a go. It's actually fine for my use. I mainly write technical docs and code (Xcode, VSCode). Plus, the extra portability is great, particularly compared to the old 2010 model.

Next, the keyboard. Now, this had put me off during the odd minutes I spent noodling on the display models in the Apple Store. I loved the 2010's keyboard to the point that I bought an Apple keyboard for my work PC to replicate the feel. It did take an hour or two to adjust, but I'm finding it works well. I'm a touch-typer who's a bit sensitive to positioning and pitch changes, but adjusted fine. What I do still struggle with is finding the correct arrow keys with my right-hand little finger. Because there's no space around the keys, the arrow cluster isn't in the usual 'inverted-tee' shape, and I'll often hit the up arrow instead of the down. I'll adjust!

The Touch Bar. It's quite nifty. I like how dialog buttons are replicated in the bar, since the bar is often closer to my fingers than the space or enter keys. I love the ability to define which apps should automatically switch the bar to F-key mode -- made great use of that for my coding IDEs. It's also great for scrubbing video, even in QuickLook. The only issue I have is that I'll occasionally brush the bar accidentally when Cmd-Tabbing between apps with my thumb/left-pinkie. I have big hands! Again, I'll adjust.

Performance. It's quick! I mean, my 2010 model with the SSD was no slouch in general usage, but this thing flies. The PCIe SSD is noticeably quicker, and 16GB RAM helps with multiple VMs. I wrote a service-based platform in Python which is best tested with multiple Linux VMs running different sets of services, so it's great to fire up 5 or 6 2GB-RAM Linux VMs for testing. I'll get around to setting up Docker soon!

More Nice Things: The BT/Wifi upgrade on my old 2010 was less than optimal. The patch to enable Continuity was a bit flaky and the machine only had 2 aerials, whilst the card wanted 3. It is superb to have full 802.11ac speeds! Running iperf3 tests to my gigabit-wired server gives a reliable ~75 megabytes/sec. I occasionally see the Wifi running at > 1000mbit/sec, which is phenomenal. To get between 75% and 100% of gigabit speeds over the air is really very nice. It's also great to have Continuity/Hand-Off/Clipboard Sync/Unlock with Apple Watch working reliably. Oh, and TouchID is great -- I wish it worked with 'sudo' prompts in Terminal!

Not So Nice Things: I had to put the 2TB drive from my old machine into a USB-C enclosure, so I often have that hanging off the side of the laptop. But cloud-based Photos and iTunes storage means I don't need it all that often. And with the quick WiFi, I can stick more stuff on the server for use over NFS. I've bought a couple of USB-C-to-A adapters. Only needed to use them once so far this week, so not much of a problem. It's really rather nifty to have 4 ports that do anything and everything. Me from 10 years ago would be amazed that one port is used for power, 5K monitors, VGA output, hard-drives, flash drives, Ethernet, etc. 3rd-party dongles are getting more varied and cheaper every day, and are available in a variety of form-factors. And having ports on both sides is great.

So, yeah -- pretty happy with the machine. I hope my mini-review's been handy!
 
Nice review, I agree that most people are writing off things like the new keyboard, touch bar and USB-C before even giving them a go. Change is inevitable and always take some getting used to.

The size/cost limitations of SSDs is still an issue, I went for the 1TB drive but had to pay through the nose for it. Until large SSDs become affordable modern laptops will feel like a downgrade in the storage department.
 
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Congrats on your new baby, I'm glad you're enjoying the laptop. Nice review
 
I’m with you on the whole “one port to rule them all” of USB-C/TB3. I think it’s the most Apple port since the original USB port in the ‘98 iMac. No bandwidth permanently resevered for specific ports, just 40gbits of bandwidth available for however you want to use it.
 
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Nice review, I agree that most people are writing off things like the new keyboard, touch bar and USB-C before even giving them a go. Change is inevitable and always take some getting used to.

Indeed. And we've seen it all before. There was uproar when the last keyboard design first appeared, replacing the 'full-cap' keys from the PowerBook era. The touch bar is definitely something that needs a little more conscious thought, but it's already more broadly useful to me than the previous 2-mode F-keys were.

The size/cost limitations of SSDs is still an issue, I went for the 1TB drive but had to pay through the nose for it. Until large SSDs become affordable modern laptops will feel like a downgrade in the storage department.

It wasn't long ago that 1TB of solid-state storage at PCIe speeds was the stuff of a mad-man's dreams. Now they retail for £427. As I mentioned, though -- almost-gigabit WiFi speed has made me a bit more likely to shift large files to and from my NAS as needed.

Congrats on your new baby, I'm glad you're enjoying the laptop. Nice review

Thank you! Only getting a new machine every best-part-of-a-decade is actually really interesting. You get all the changes in one glorious hit!

I’m with you on the whole “one port to rule them all” of USB-C/TB3. I think it’s the most Apple port since the original USB port in the ‘98 iMac. No bandwidth permanently resevered for specific ports, just 40gbits of bandwidth available for however you want to use it.

USB-C/TB is really quite amazing - some of us are old enough to remember the various SCSI form factors, different RS232/422 ports, Centronics, PS/2, EGA, VGA (which just...won't...die!) and DINs of various configurations... Phew. And not only 40gbits of data, but also 10 watts of power.

Oh, and I forgot to say -- one 'downside' is that it just won't get hot! The old 2010 MBP was a very nice personal lap-warmer, very handy in winter :)
 
What I do still struggle with is finding the correct arrow keys with my right-hand little finger. Because there's no space around the keys, the arrow cluster isn't in the usual 'inverted-tee' shape, and I'll often hit the up arrow instead of the down. I'll adjust!
No you won't. Not because your brain isn't capable of adjustment but because there is absolutely no tactile way to adjust. These new arrow keys are one of the worst ideas manufacturer's have ever had regarding keyboards and unfortunately, they're fairly widespread at this point. I've had the new keyboard for 8 months and the arrow keys are the one thing I have never been able to adjust to. I kept hitting the down arrow instead of the up because of the lack of inverted-T shape.
 
Great little review, sounds like you are generally happy with it which is great to hear.

You may want to try out the "better touch tool" app for increased touch bar functionality and customisation .
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No you won't. Not because your brain isn't capable of adjustment but because there is absolutely no tactile way to adjust. These new arrow keys are one of the worst ideas manufacturer's have ever had regarding keyboards and unfortunately, they're fairly widespread at this point. I've had the new keyboard for 8 months and the arrow keys are the one thing I have never been able to adjust to. I kept hitting the down arrow instead of the up because of the lack of inverted-T shape.

Couldn't you just remap the keys??
 
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No you won't. Not because your brain isn't capable of adjustment but because there is absolutely no tactile way to adjust. These new arrow keys are one of the worst ideas manufacturer's have ever had regarding keyboards and unfortunately, they're fairly widespread at this point. I've had the new keyboard for 8 months and the arrow keys are the one thing I have never been able to adjust to. I kept hitting the down arrow instead of the up because of the lack of inverted-T shape.

Not too sure about that. I'm getting there after a week. The trick seems to be to get the pinkie's muscle-memory to head for the chamfered groove between the up and down keys, then either push with the nail to hit 'up' or the pad to hit 'down'. Like I say, very nearly adjusted. Occasionally I don't move my finger low enough and mistake the gap between up and shift for the one between up and down.

And my personal 'worst decision ever' regarding keyboards was when the universe decided to replace Control with Caps Lock. Now that took a bit of re-learning!
 
Couldn't you just remap the keys??
Remap the arrow keys?

Not too sure about that. I'm getting there after a week. The trick seems to be to get the pinkie's muscle-memory to head for the chamfered groove between the up and down keys, then either push with the nail to hit 'up' or the pad to hit 'down'. Like I say, very nearly adjusted. Occasionally I don't move my finger low enough and mistake the gap between up and shift for the one between up and down.
Don't get me wrong, I got it right 4/5 times. Which was often enough for my brain to accept that this is how it's done. And then, the 5. time I hit the wrong arrow key without realizing.
 
Remap the arrow keys?


Don't get me wrong, I got it right 4/5 times. Which was often enough for my brain to accept that this is how it's done. And then, the 5. time I hit the wrong arrow key without realizing.

Karabiner is remapping software you can customise your keyboard as you wish it’s free as far as I can tell look it up and see what you think.
 
I don't think you're getting the point here Samuelsan2001. How exactly is remapping up to down and down to up or either of those to the right option key going to change the fact that it's well-nigh impossible to hit those keys blindly and get the right one each and every time just like on a normal keyboard with inverted-T arrow keys?

Either that or I'm simply not getting this.
 
I don't think you're getting the point here Samuelsan2001. How exactly is remapping up to down and down to up or either of those to the right option key going to change the fact that it's well-nigh impossible to hit those keys blindly and get the right one each and every time just like on a normal keyboard with inverted-T arrow keys?

Either that or I'm simply not getting this.

Ahhh I now see what you are getting at, well you could map both up and down arrows to up and then the right option key to down then it just doesn’t matter which arrow key you hit.
 
Thanks for this write-up. Glad to see that you are happy with the 2017 13 inch, after coming from a 2010 15 inch. I will likely be making a similar upgrade (2011 15 -> 2017 13), and it's good to know that the screen size and performance still feel like an upgrade.
 
Cool - I'm glad the review's useful!

Some more notes...

I thought it was crazy that the volume icon defaulted to not appearing on the menu bar, and turned it on. Then I just realised that the volume icon on the Touch Bar shows the current volume level. Nifty!

I had my first 'Oh! No MagSafe!' moment when the doorbell rang earlier and I nearly tipped the thing onto the floor by getting caught up in the power lead. I see there are some MagSafe-alike adapters out there - I might just pick one up.

I also suddenly remembered that new Macs can AirPlay their screens. We've got a 2012 mini running as our media centre, and it's also running AirServer. AirPlaying from the laptop to there worked very well indeed. Scrolling up and down through Photos was surprisingly smooth, as was video playback.

I had another scary moment where I thought I'd broken the keyboard -- my up-arrow stopped working. After a few moments of panic, it turned out there's a bug in Visual Studio Code which causes this. Quit and reopened the app and all was fine.
 
Hi,

Thought I'd do a mini-review of my new 2017 13" Touchbar MBP from the perspective of someone who doesn't upgrade very often! Clearly, people like me will have a different perspective to someone who gets a new machine every year or two.



My old machine was only my second Apple laptop. My first was a 2006 Core Duo 15" MBP (straight after the Intel switch). The one I've just replaced was a Late 2010 15" with the high-res screen, upgraded to 8GB RAM, a 120GB SSD and a 2TB HD in the Optical bay. I'd also upgraded the bluetooth/wifi module to one which allowed AirDrop/Continuity via a software patch.

The new machine was from the Apple Refurb store. It's a 13" 2017 4x Thunderbolt 3, 3.1GHz i5 with 16GB RAM and 250GB SSD.

Firstly, the screen size. Looking through the refurb options, it was clear that to keep the cost acceptable whilst getting a reasonably beefy machine, I'd need to go for the 13" over the 15". I'd never owned a sub 15" laptop before, but thought I'd give it a go. It's actually fine for my use. I mainly write technical docs and code (Xcode, VSCode). Plus, the extra portability is great, particularly compared to the old 2010 model.

Next, the keyboard. Now, this had put me off during the odd minutes I spent noodling on the display models in the Apple Store. I loved the 2010's keyboard to the point that I bought an Apple keyboard for my work PC to replicate the feel. It did take an hour or two to adjust, but I'm finding it works well. I'm a touch-typer who's a bit sensitive to positioning and pitch changes, but adjusted fine. What I do still struggle with is finding the correct arrow keys with my right-hand little finger. Because there's no space around the keys, the arrow cluster isn't in the usual 'inverted-tee' shape, and I'll often hit the up arrow instead of the down. I'll adjust!

The Touch Bar. It's quite nifty. I like how dialog buttons are replicated in the bar, since the bar is often closer to my fingers than the space or enter keys. I love the ability to define which apps should automatically switch the bar to F-key mode -- made great use of that for my coding IDEs. It's also great for scrubbing video, even in QuickLook. The only issue I have is that I'll occasionally brush the bar accidentally when Cmd-Tabbing between apps with my thumb/left-pinkie. I have big hands! Again, I'll adjust.

Performance. It's quick! I mean, my 2010 model with the SSD was no slouch in general usage, but this thing flies. The PCIe SSD is noticeably quicker, and 16GB RAM helps with multiple VMs. I wrote a service-based platform in Python which is best tested with multiple Linux VMs running different sets of services, so it's great to fire up 5 or 6 2GB-RAM Linux VMs for testing. I'll get around to setting up Docker soon!

More Nice Things: The BT/Wifi upgrade on my old 2010 was less than optimal. The patch to enable Continuity was a bit flaky and the machine only had 2 aerials, whilst the card wanted 3. It is superb to have full 802.11ac speeds! Running iperf3 tests to my gigabit-wired server gives a reliable ~75 megabytes/sec. I occasionally see the Wifi running at > 1000mbit/sec, which is phenomenal. To get between 75% and 100% of gigabit speeds over the air is really very nice. It's also great to have Continuity/Hand-Off/Clipboard Sync/Unlock with Apple Watch working reliably. Oh, and TouchID is great -- I wish it worked with 'sudo' prompts in Terminal!

Not So Nice Things: I had to put the 2TB drive from my old machine into a USB-C enclosure, so I often have that hanging off the side of the laptop. But cloud-based Photos and iTunes storage means I don't need it all that often. And with the quick WiFi, I can stick more stuff on the server for use over NFS. I've bought a couple of USB-C-to-A adapters. Only needed to use them once so far this week, so not much of a problem. It's really rather nifty to have 4 ports that do anything and everything. Me from 10 years ago would be amazed that one port is used for power, 5K monitors, VGA output, hard-drives, flash drives, Ethernet, etc. 3rd-party dongles are getting more varied and cheaper every day, and are available in a variety of form-factors. And having ports on both sides is great.

So, yeah -- pretty happy with the machine. I hope my mini-review's been handy!

do you miss the larger screen?
 
do you miss the larger screen?

I can't say I do, really. When I'm engrossed in doing something, I really don't notice. I have the preferences set to 'More Space', meaning 1680x1050. Also, I work fine with several apps open in full-screen, using three-finger swipes to move between them. I imagine that if you were doing something that absolutely required several windows or palettes on-screen at once, you might struggle.

I mentioned AirPlay earlier -- and what I found was that using AirPlay to my TV as a second monitor was quite handy. I threw a window up on the TV containing some documentation whilst I coded on the laptop screen. Not sure I'd make a habit of doing that, but it was fun.
 
Cr
I can't say I do, really. When I'm engrossed in doing something, I really don't notice. I have the preferences set to 'More Space', meaning 1680x1050. Also, I work fine with several apps open in full-screen, using three-finger swipes to move between them. I imagine that if you were doing something that absolutely required several windows or palettes on-screen at once, you might struggle.

I mentioned AirPlay earlier -- and what I found was that using AirPlay to my TV as a second monitor was quite handy. I threw a window up on the TV containing some documentation whilst I coded on the laptop screen. Not sure I'd make a habit of doing that, but it was fun.

And if you have an iPad you can set that as a second screen as well for a more portable second screen solution.

https://www.lifewire.com/use-your-ipad-as-second-monitor-1994716
 
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